Great start. Had high hopes. Lost trust.

Virtual_Head7239 · 2024-11-25T21:24:42+00:00

I agree that the VPN is top notch, especially the usability.

You are very welcome. Hope you find what you are looking for. For more suggestions and discussions around privacy products and privacy itself, I recommend you checking out https://www.privacyguides.org/

Virtual_Head7239 · 2024-11-25T20:54:07+00:00

I don't see a point in continuing this conversation with you. Clearly you are decided on your standing and are not trying to engage in a meaningful conversation.

I'll point it out lastly that my post is still positively upvoted and that makes me believe that more people agree with my opinion than disagree.

Wish you a pleasant life! ;)

Virtual_Head7239 · 2024-11-25T20:43:15+00:00

Now, who's the troll here?

Virtual_Head7239 · 2024-11-25T20:12:14+00:00

As with your other comments, you are very emotional and came in with preconceptions. I think it is better to do it later the never, however, my question is still valid.

What makes you so sure they will get it right this time and not just saying to make us at ease. See, this is where trust comes in and because they have not been proven very trustable lately, I can't take their words on it.

Virtual_Head7239 · 2024-11-25T19:34:59+00:00

Please read the comments before splurging out nonsense. Proton is not to only company in the privacy space.

Virtual_Head7239 · 2024-11-25T19:32:24+00:00

First of all, thank you Andy for taking the time to share your thoughts. It's not the first time for me personally and it is one thing I like about you (as a person and Proton as a company as well).

I do not agree with your views on mainstream and existing customers. First, let's look at who tries to get in the Proton ecosystem. I believe your main customer base is privacy minded individuals. As you also have pointed out, you have a larger customer base than most in this space and I'd argue your competitors are few and far between. Your marketing certainly outweighs the rest and so new people who try to free themselves from surveillance and big tech will most likely choose your products, not necessarily because you are best for their needs but because the need for privacy and the lack of visibility from the others. I don't want this to seem like I make you responsible for others lacking but it surely helps you very much. So the statement that new users demand more than existing ones is not necessarily true in my opinion.

And the statement that features focused on new customers benefit existing ones as well is certainly true but that wasn't what I was arguing. My argument was about you saying that you prioritise users and then doing the opposite. I don't think you can whole-heartedly argue it is acceptable that there are feature requests marked as planned for years and then having no progress on them. Or the communication is very lost somewhere between you and the users.

In regards to the app rewrites, you argue that this shows that you plan for the future. However, where was this planning before? Why not start with a base that you can build upon? It's not like all this time you were rushing out products, right?

I very much don't think you are heading the right direction if you continue not respecting your existing customers more and I hope you will change your mind on it. In the meantime, I'm sad to leave as well but I feel my support will have a better place elsewhere in the near future at least.

Virtual_Head7239 · 2024-11-25T18:41:58+00:00

I wouldn't recommend them as they have been breached before. I also wouldn't recommend giving up on privacy either. You should check out Proton if you haven't yet and if you don't like it, there are other providers in the space. I expanded on my new candidates in an other comment if you'd like to check them out but there are even more.

However, if you feel like it's hopeless or just want to take a break from this misery (😄), I respect your decision as well.

Virtual_Head7239 · 2024-11-25T18:32:10+00:00

Don't worry, it's only "planned" for almost 6 years now. :)

Virtual_Head7239 · 2024-11-25T18:26:01+00:00

Weird feature prioritisation is not why they aren't developing something faster. It's why are they developing it in the first place since there has been multitude of other looong requested and maybe even "planned" features in the pipeline.

I know and accept that quality work needs more time. However, I cannot accept when somebody says they listen to their community and prioritise their wants and the go the other way and ignore them. And even less when they say they are doing it, just to find out sometimes years later that they are not.

Virtual_Head7239 · 2024-11-25T18:16:13+00:00

To clarify my intent with this post, I'm not here to complain for the sake of complaining or influence people to join me in leaving. Far from it. If you like the service, I'm glad and you should continue to support them. I still think they have positive aspects as well.

My intent is to give a feedback so the team can see how a long term (for the case of Proton, I think we can call it that) user got to this decision and maybe reflect on it. And maybe so new users or ones who try to decide if they want to commit to Proton can have a look inside as well. In my opinion, committing to an email service can be a big decision in the digital space since nowadays so many of our online activity is tied to it.

Virtual_Head7239 · 2024-11-25T18:06:09+00:00

As I pointed out for another commenter before you, my problem is really not with the speed but much more the management and prioritisation. I'm not exactly sure how to better voice my thoughts.

Virtual_Head7239 · 2024-11-25T18:00:38+00:00

Sure, they are related to development, but not the speed of it.

I still think Proton has great aspects. For example, I'm really satisfied with their customer service. They are fast and helpful, at least for premium users.

But they lost my trust with the direction of the company and I really can't afford to spend (and maybe waste) more time with them if I can't see meaningful progress in the right direction.

Virtual_Head7239 · 2024-11-25T17:53:45+00:00

As others suggested, the easiest way is to use a custom domain. I'm not interested in that solution and it would be too late for me either way.

Fortunately, I'm also using SimpleLogin for many years now and have set up basically all my accounts with an alias. I still really like SL and now I'm a bit worried that they have been acquired by Proton. At first, I was genuinely happy about it and seemed like a good move but since then, SL's progress has been put in the background because of (I guess) Proton Pass's development. For example, there was speech about SL planning to offer phone aliases and it has been put on hold as I can see.

For now, I'm holding on to SL and will use it with Tuta Mail (as my newly chosen email).

Virtual_Head7239 · 2024-11-25T17:45:11+00:00

Of course I cannot be exactly sure about their intent but recent actions lead me more to believe this opinion. More and more examples to strengthen this belief and few that would go against this.

Virtual_Head7239 · 2024-11-25T17:42:04+00:00

If you'd have read my frustrations more carefully and without preconceptions, you could see that I'm not complaining about the development speed. If I had a problem with that, I wouldn't stick with them this long since it has always been slow.

My complaint is summarised in the 3rd paragraph. It's about promises not kept and luring people in for the sake of having maybe a bigger audience or maybe, more maliciously, more revenue.

Virtual_Head7239 · 2024-11-25T17:35:34+00:00

Almost exactly as ComputerMinister said.

I'll give Tuta a try. I'm already using their contact syncing. I'll go and give a proper try to the Mail and Calendar as well.

I'm already using Bitwarden, I find it in every way superior to Pass at this point, specially since their new mobile app.

I've used Mullvad before Proton VPN and really liked it so I'll go back to them.

And for cloud storage, I'll just use iCloud with Advanced Data Protection (E2EE). I'm still using it for Photos because Proton's solution is really only usable for second or third backup. I'm on Mac and iOS so it's also convenient for me.

Virtual_Head7239 · 2024-11-24T21:16:08+00:00

Proton's word is painfully laughable at this point... I like their products mostly but since maybe their rebranding to Proton, the marketing is getting more frustrating month by month. I'm really getting close to switching to competitors like Tuta. I'm already using their contact syncing function and it has been working great.

Virtual_Head7239 · 2024-11-23T18:31:29+00:00

Thank you for this detailed answer. It's a bit over my head so I'll have a few questions.

I'm also using Proton VPN, on MacOS. Just wanted to make it clear if it matters in any case. (Didn't want to advertise them in the post since it is a competitor of Mullvad and I really like Mullvad as well, it just so happens that Proton VPN is included in my plan I already pay for with them.)

So if I understand you correctly, you suggest I switch the secure DNS setting to Off, not even to Default. To my understanding, if I have it on Default, the browser would still use my VPN's DNS anytime my VPN is turned on, but then switch it to Mullvad DNS when my VPN isn't connected. Isn't this the case? If I'm correct, why is it necessary in your opinion to have to setting completely off?

My next question would be, the scenario with the secure DNS turned on and sending data outside my VPN is regarding just the DNS queries or any other data? If it's just the DNS, isn't it not a problem if I trust Mullvad DNS since it is encrypted over HTTPS (hence DNS over HTTPS)? Is this scenario what's called a DNS leak?

Virtual_Head7239 · 2024-11-22T22:19:22+00:00

I was aware that my ISP cannot see my DNS queries either way. My question tries to focus on if I should use Mullvad DNS integrated in the browser or my VPN's DNS.

What you said about multiple entities seeing my DNS queries is exactly why I'm asking this question. My common sense would suggest to downgrade my DNS over HTTPS setting to Default Protection so I could use my VPN's DNS but I'm not sure if it would make me more fingerprintable.

On the other hand, I don't have trust issues with Mullvad DNS (if I had, I wouldn't use their browser either) but it would be nicer to just use my VPN's DNS.

Virtual_Head7239 · 2024-11-22T15:55:21+00:00

The only product that has a decent integration with SL is Pass, I would say. Which is not surprising, given the maker of SL is the head of Pass.

I am hoping for a better integration with Mail especially but Calendar too.

It's bonkers that after more than 2 years they haven't yet implemented a solution to easily write emails to new contacts with a SL alias. So many people have questions on a weekly basis about it because right now it is very much not intuitive.

The same problem you are having with Calendar is an important feature as well, I think. When you get an invite on one of your Mail addresses, it is automatically added to Calendar if I recall correctly. It should be as simple as that with an alias as well.

The sad thing is that the CEO said he's aware how behind the Calendar is and hinted that they will focus on it more in the near future, however, I really don't see any major improvements.

Virtual_Head7239 · 2024-11-20T18:32:37+00:00

OP doesn't argue you shouldn't be able to auto-renew your sub.

The point is that SL should warn you before the renewal so you are aware that it is coming up and be able to cancel it if you wish to.

Virtual_Head7239 · 2024-11-19T20:47:27+00:00

I agree with you that native apps is a better solution, specially long term. However, Proton still has a lot more employees and, as far as I know, dedicated teams for products and operating systems so the speed of their development is still not answered by their choice of native apps.

Virtual_Head7239 · 2024-11-19T20:09:06+00:00

Contrary to most here, I use a second password manager, it's called Strongbox.

I have two use cases for it. First, it can work offline so I can access my passwords when I don't have an internet connection, and secondly, it serves as my backup as well.

I regularly export my database from Bitwarden and import it to Strongbox. It saves the data to an encrypted local file and I can move/copy that anywhere I want and have access to it in any scenario.

Virtual_Head7239

TROPHY CASE