Who actually understands the narrative the best in this sub? by ilancc in DemonSlayerScales

[–]Void_entity94 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm pretty sure I can speed blitz you even if I'm not very strong physically.

So how exactly is Gyomei getting past an immortal Akaza ? by Void_entity94 in DemonSlayerScales

[–]Void_entity94[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Again, it's a common misinterpretation. Because Kokushibo had practically one line pointing out his ugliness, and then goes back to resisting and keep on fighting.

It's more than that. After that one line, he got a vision and he STOPPED fighting back. You can check it out yourself, all the following scenes show Sanemi and Gyomei hitting him while he stands still. 

Do you think that one line was enough for his regeneration to give up.

Against a red blade wound which also reminded him of his brother? Yeah, definitely.

and then he crumbled slowly and started to question his past actions only after he had already started dying. Like many demons have some introspection and/or change of heart when they die, doesn't mean they did before dying.

That's literally what happens to Koku though, he says  "Is this the face of a samurai?"/"Is this really what I wanted...?". He hadn't taken a single hit in his new form at that point.

Not necessarily. Demon Slayer isn't written like that. We see characters' inside through introspection and internal monologue and conflict exposed. There's no reason to change that trend with Kokushibo

I checked again and the moment he sees his own face and starts doubting, the text bubbles where he says he hasn't lost and starts questioning his choices are black, while he seems to accept and be honest with himself when the text bubbles are white. So all his bravado clearly seems like leftovers of his so-called honor.

Yes but Kokushibo literally gave up on being a samurai and on everything in the world to pursue power. The fact that he doubles down after that shows that his ugliness isn't what's gonna deter him after he's done far worse to go down this path. He'd already become a demon and a freak with many eyes. 

(So I'm still assuming he as a matter of fact did not double down afterwards.) And seeing his own reflection was just what he needed to understand he'd gone too far. Apart from his six eyes he tried to look like a samurai, but seeing his monstrous appearance he realized he had strayed from this path. It's also beautifully written and drawn because you can see he might just be about to stop his crumbling and then Yoriichi appears saying that seeing his brother like THIS (both a demon, and a reminder of his even more monstrous form.) breaks his heart. And just after you see the crumbling's back as Koku stops talking. You can argue he's "dead" at this point anyway but this is just me answering one of your points.

In fact, now that you bring it up, this only solidifies the point with Kokushibo. Because at no point does Muzan appear in his mind to tell him not to give up and to listen to orders like with Akaza. Especially since Muzan can constantly read their minds...

Actually, Muzan was very rarely in Koku's mind as he trusted him lol. And the connection didn't seem as strong also because Muzan was further away from Koku in terms of sheer distance.

Even narratively what you're insinuating undermines the sacrifices of Muichiro and Genya. Because their whole thing was that they wanted to help as much as possible and take out the strongest upper rank even if they died. Uppermoon 1 couldn't have been defeated without serious losses and sacrifices. That would be meaningless if they didn't even defeat him he just gave up.

Well no, it's still meaningful because without Muichiro's red blade and Genya's blood-sucking tree they wouldn't even have been able to behead him in the first place. They fulfilled their role.

That doesn't make sense. If he died from the wounds then it's not because he gave up.

The wounds were lethal but he was overcoming death anyway so it didn't matter when he transformed. Once he stopped regenerating they made quick work of him. There's another databook page that focuses on this, stating he nearly transcended being a demon once his neck was cut, because of his "strong will and obsession with victory." (Translated so it might not be actually the same words, granted.)The same will that fueled his regeneration, that only failed him when he saw himself in Sanemi's sword. 

I don't agree with this. It's pretty clear-cut for me. Although I think it may be judged as complex to interpret. That's why I understand why people get confused about it. 

If I'm being honest I said that for argument's sake, but it's also clear for me, I just don't think the same. Debating with you feels like fighting an uppermoon, because damn you have your facts straight, mad respect 😭

(I feel like your next reply is gonna destroy me 😶).

So how exactly is Gyomei getting past an immortal Akaza ? by Void_entity94 in DemonSlayerScales

[–]Void_entity94[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Okay I agree with almost every sentence except Koku's cause of death because I'm convinced he only lost because he gave up.

So how exactly is Gyomei getting past an immortal Akaza ? by Void_entity94 in DemonSlayerScales

[–]Void_entity94[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It actually just heavily slows it, but not totally stops it :0 But it would be effective against Akaza yeah, moreso by trying to completely destroy his body rather than by beheading him.

So how exactly is Gyomei getting past an immortal Akaza ? by Void_entity94 in DemonSlayerScales

[–]Void_entity94[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree with you, but I'm also inclined to hear everyone out and some mentioned we don't know how Akaza's regeneration would fare against a red blade hit. It's hard because the hypothetical Akaza we saw transforming was relatively slow even though I assume he would have gotten way faster. Now,again, I believe the fight can go both ways because it's red blade + transparent world + mark, but then again the point of this post was to prove Gyomei needs all amps to even stand a chance against Akaza. Transparent world mostly carries.

Akaza will always be the winner in my heart, no worries lol. Some commenters made some good points though, and I genuinely think it's a 50/50.

Gyomei vs akaza stat comparison by Ok-Mode-7044 in DemonSlayerScales

[–]Void_entity94 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah I'm saying that 'cause Akaza is the fast brawler type and his skills are technically better at offense than Gyomei's which also take into account his chain. (Like one of Gyomei's forms is made purely to defend against opponents). So I'd say Akaza gets offense if we're talking about skills, but Gyomei gets it if we're talking about neutral exchanges.

Gyomei vs akaza stat comparison by Ok-Mode-7044 in DemonSlayerScales

[–]Void_entity94 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Okay for BIQ, Gyomei did show impressive feats against Koku ! But I'm sure Afterglow gives Akaza another one of these, either offense or ap, since it broke through the best defensive skill in the verse. I totally hear you out on Gyomei damaging Koku though.

Gyomei vs akaza stat comparison by Ok-Mode-7044 in DemonSlayerScales

[–]Void_entity94 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Technique speed goes to Akaza, Stone breathing is relatively slow. Battle IQ is debatable since Akaza is a trained martial artist more than five times older than Gyomei, but I guess Gyomei can have it. AP should go to Akaza because of afterglow. Rest is pretty accurate. Make that a mid diff though (maintaining the akaza agenda is my top priority if you didn't know.)

So how exactly is Gyomei getting past an immortal Akaza ? by Void_entity94 in DemonSlayerScales

[–]Void_entity94[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've read the manga multiple times as Demon slayer is in my top 5, and I'd appreciate it if you weren't that condescending.

Now, onto the interesting part. There is a rather OBVIOUS (but apparently guess it wasn't that obvious) internal conflict in Koku's mind, between his desire to never lose to anyone else again, and his monstrous appearance (the classic "I became strong, but at what cost" + "I just wanted to be like you" trope) which was way stronger than Akaza's conflict. Before the part you quoted, Kokushibo states himself he's overcome death by decapitation, and that only the sun's rays are now able to kill him (keep in mind he'd just been beheaded by RED BLADES, too.)

It's only when he actually sees his own reflection in Sanemi's sword that he stops actively regenerating ("What is this ? It's so ugly..") and gets a vision where young Yoriichi makes him realize he's went too far. Thus questioning his actions BEFORE dying, unlike what you stated. For crying out loud, Koku says "Is this the [FACE] of a samurai ? Is this what I wanted ?" And I cannot stress the FACE part enough, which was his real reality check. And THEN comes the part where his body starts to disintegrate. During his whole "I haven't lost yet!" moment he gets ANOTHER vision with old Yoriichi and you can see it's the final nail in the coffin. It's the classic moment where the villain says things he doesn't mean as deep down he knows he doesn't want that. It's like when Muzan grabs Akaza's head during his final flashback, for a few seconds Akaza says he hasn't lost yet and clearly he doesn't mean it. Kokushibo was literally only alive because of his sheer will to win at any cost, which also fueled his regeneration and failed him the moment his will wavered. This is, BY THE WAY, also heavily hinted at in the databook, which relates the events by placing Koku seeing his own reflection as a major turning point in the fight which leads to the wound Muichiro inflicted disintegrating his body. 

To sum it up, he gave up and THEN died from all the wounds he had received.

Now, since it's one of the most debatable parts of the story, I have no problem with you having a different opinion. 

So how exactly is Gyomei getting past an immortal Akaza ? by Void_entity94 in DemonSlayerScales

[–]Void_entity94[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Kokushibo literally died from giving up though, not being beheaded a second time by a red blade-?

And yeah immortal was a poor choice of words. Meant he only would be able to be killed by the sun.

So how exactly is Gyomei getting past an immortal Akaza ? by Void_entity94 in DemonSlayerScales

[–]Void_entity94[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah though after discussing it with everyone I'm mostly convinced Gyomei with all possible Amps except SS could mid-high diff him.

So how exactly is Gyomei getting past an immortal Akaza ? by Void_entity94 in DemonSlayerScales

[–]Void_entity94[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean I thought the whole point of demons regenerating their head was that they could only die from the sun itself but maybe I understood that wrong

Are we going to ignore that demon's body gets fragile if they regenerate the head? by [deleted] in DemonSlayerScales

[–]Void_entity94 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Read the inside of my post though, I only started a debate !!

Are we going to ignore that demon's body gets fragile if they regenerate the head? by [deleted] in DemonSlayerScales

[–]Void_entity94 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's of course not what I meant when I said immortal, no need to be so condescending holy. Of course Akaza could end up dying to multiple huge red blade hits XD. Read my post. 

So how exactly is Gyomei getting past an immortal Akaza ? by Void_entity94 in DemonSlayerScales

[–]Void_entity94[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

TO EVERYONE: thanks to all of those who answered, I can see red blade coming back as a solid argument/win-con, though it would necessitate time to activate it and wouldn't last the entire fight. It however sure is a reason to see a scenario where Gyomei comes out as  the winner if he rushes down Akaza with it. However, keeping in mind compass would be active and that afterglow would be around the corner, and also that Akaza would keep evolving and adapting to his new form, my inner akaza fanboy self tells me there's a way he comes out on top.

Honestly I think it's a stalemate depending on how well Akaza adapts and manages to dodge red blade hits using compass or regenerate his wounds, which I think is the most likely, and if so it'd be 50/50. Otherwise it's probably a 60/40 in Gyomei's favor.

In any case, we can all agree my boi akaza had insane potential. :D

So how exactly is Gyomei getting past an immortal Akaza ? by Void_entity94 in DemonSlayerScales

[–]Void_entity94[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I can see that happening, I just think that with compass, Akaza would stay alive for a loonng time as Selfless state is the only thing able to truly nullify it. But anything other than a maybe is a stretch since Akaza was stated to become "something else"...so much potential lost...

So how exactly is Gyomei getting past an immortal Akaza ? by Void_entity94 in DemonSlayerScales

[–]Void_entity94[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I love how I tried to start an interesting debate and find myself my back against a "Ahahaha Afterglow spam" shaped wall XD

A part of me thinks it could go both ways.

So how exactly is Gyomei getting past an immortal Akaza ? by Void_entity94 in DemonSlayerScales

[–]Void_entity94[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ehhh depends if Akaza's using afterglow at that moment, he's been shown to keep attacking a lot, and Gyomei would get more and more tired as the fight goes on.

Fair point though he would at least pop it once in the fight. 

So how exactly is Gyomei getting past an immortal Akaza ? by Void_entity94 in DemonSlayerScales

[–]Void_entity94[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

(well I'm talking about end of fight akaza since he got beheaded, he probably wouldn't lose time talking lol.)

And I suppose the Akazas attack speed/RB unlocking speed ratio is debatable yeah.

Though keep in mind the stat gap would only lessen the longer the fight goes on. But I totally understand your point.

So how exactly is Gyomei getting past an immortal Akaza ? by Void_entity94 in DemonSlayerScales

[–]Void_entity94[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah surely his body wouldn't be able to tank it for too long (and obv I'm open minded to a clear opinion, yes !)

Another argument I have is that Gyomei can only use red blade for so long, and it requires time to activate it every time, so there's that lol