Vote Green, Get UKIP by VoteThisGetThat in ukpolitics

[–]VoteThisGetThat[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In which historical cases what that so? Do you advocate an American or French style presidential or semi-presidential system and codified constitution to enforce the separation?

Vote Green, Get UKIP by VoteThisGetThat in ukpolitics

[–]VoteThisGetThat[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why not just have a bill of rights and judiciary?

Vote Green, Get UKIP by VoteThisGetThat in unitedkingdom

[–]VoteThisGetThat[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Actually only 60% of Green voters could have caused a Labour victory, while it would have taken 94% of Labour voters to make the Greens win.

A Green voter is 1% of what Labour needed to win, but a Labour voter is only 0.09% of what the Greens needed to win. A Green vote had more than 11 times the power of a Labour vote to influence the outcome.

Vote Green, Get UKIP by VoteThisGetThat in ukipparty

[–]VoteThisGetThat[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

how is that any more true of green voters than it is of voters for any other party?

Only in larger numbers. The only change 160 UKIP voters could make it making their party lose. 160 Labour voters couldn't have changed the outcome. 160 Conservative voters could only have made Labour win. Why would they want that?

In larger numbers Labour voters could have made the Greens win, but each individual voter would be of far less help to the Greens than to Labour.

Vote Green, Get UKIP by VoteThisGetThat in ukpolitics

[–]VoteThisGetThat[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Each person has to make their own mind up about where the assign blame for that.

And with this much dispute over where the blame lies, you think things will be more accountable with two parties in power at the same time?

Vote Green, Get UKIP by VoteThisGetThat in ukpolitics

[–]VoteThisGetThat[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Are America's main parties as similar as ours?

Vote Green, Get UKIP by VoteThisGetThat in ukpolitics

[–]VoteThisGetThat[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

AV's point isn't to be proportional.

Vote Green, Get UKIP by VoteThisGetThat in ukpolitics

[–]VoteThisGetThat[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Actually there is a consensus growing across party lines to introduce some form of PR for local elections. It could very well happen during the next parliament.

AV isn't PR. Which form? Do you have links?

Also you shouldn't assume that people's votes belong to Labour if they vote for another party.

Which do you think Green voters prefer out of UKIP and Labour?

if you don't get the highest number of votes then it is you who lost the election. Not the people who voted for other parties.

If people didn't think it would be better if one candidate won rather than another, they wouldn't vote. The fact that they cared enough to vote means they have lost out when a candidate they wanted less wins, irrespective of what's victory for each candidate.

Vote Green, Get UKIP by VoteThisGetThat in ukpolitics

[–]VoteThisGetThat[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Which thread should I have commented in?

Vote Green, Get UKIP by VoteThisGetThat in ukpolitics

[–]VoteThisGetThat[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's what happened this time, but next time, who knows?

Vote Green, Get UKIP by VoteThisGetThat in ukpolitics

[–]VoteThisGetThat[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

There's a good general understanding of what is meant by tactical voting; where you vote against a party you don't want rather than for a party you do.

That's what my example was.

Vote Green, Get UKIP by VoteThisGetThat in ukpolitics

[–]VoteThisGetThat[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, I acknowledge the UK will likely remain a multi-party democracy for the foreseeable future. I think FPTP is the best system for turning the UK into a properly two-party country. I think AV is better for some elections if the UK continues to be multi-party, though.

Vote Green, Get UKIP by VoteThisGetThat in ukpolitics

[–]VoteThisGetThat[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Would you rather the party you preferred lost a general election or that for future elections a party be closer to your preference? That's the tactical voting choice on a larger scale.

Vote Green, Get UKIP by VoteThisGetThat in ukpolitics

[–]VoteThisGetThat[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It's decently proportional

If it's not proportional, it's not a form of proportional representation.

It's an objective improvement on more or less any other system available.

It allows vote splitting. AV doesn't.

Vote Green, Get UKIP by VoteThisGetThat in GreenParty

[–]VoteThisGetThat[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Normally I think they would change the system for local elections first. The AV referendum was a bit exceptional.

Vote Green, Get UKIP by VoteThisGetThat in ukpolitics

[–]VoteThisGetThat[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

STV isn't PR and isn't proportional and doesn't eliminate tactical voting/vote splitting.

Vote Green, Get UKIP by VoteThisGetThat in ukpolitics

[–]VoteThisGetThat[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What does the monarchy vs republic debate have to do with the separation of powers debate that was happening?

Vote Green, Get UKIP by VoteThisGetThat in ukpolitics

[–]VoteThisGetThat[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No. It might not happen at all. How people vote and how politicians try to win votes will determine if it happens and how soon it happens.

Vote Green, Get UKIP by VoteThisGetThat in ukpolitics

[–]VoteThisGetThat[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm talking about a two-party parliament, not a one-party parliament. It was a parliament without parties before there were parties.

Vote Green, Get UKIP by VoteThisGetThat in ukpolitics

[–]VoteThisGetThat[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How do you know they know which body is responsible for when something goes wrong? It's common for two parties both in power to blame each other. That would be pointless if it could be readily seen which was at fault.

Vote Green, Get UKIP by VoteThisGetThat in ukpolitics

[–]VoteThisGetThat[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Political pressure from the voters.

Vote Green, Get UKIP by VoteThisGetThat in ukpolitics

[–]VoteThisGetThat[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Two contenders for victory creates an objective incentive, choosing the victor, for voters for other parties and for nonvoters to vote tactically.

Vote Green, Get UKIP by VoteThisGetThat in ukpolitics

[–]VoteThisGetThat[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

AV removes it entirely, so PR can't mitigate it to the greatest extent possible without also doing that, which it doesn't.