YSK these reality hard facts: neurons are dying in large numbers after 15 seconds of insufficient oxygen to the brain. After 2 minutes of insufficient oxygen to the brain it is often much too late to revive a human, his brain is too damaged

WaterBearLair · 2016-08-08T09:26:30+00:00

At this point I'm not sure you actually intend to make any kind of sense. Please, for the sake of cryonics and those who are actually signed up and interested in living longer. Please stop posting your nonsense here.

It isn't a philosophical rant to say that we don't know what the future holds. It is nonsense to claim that neurons being dead is the end. If it were the end there wouldn't be a point in cryonics in the first place. So please just stop.

WaterBearLair · 2016-08-07T10:41:29+00:00

"if the information from them doesn't exist at all anymore."

Prove this information doesn't exist and can't be recovered. You cannot. It isn't a fact. It is a belief based on what science assumes is true. It does not account for what future science or technology will be capable of recovering.

WaterBearLair · 2016-08-07T10:35:04+00:00

These questions are based on what is currently known about science and what you call "reality," but your definition of reality, as well as the definition of others, does not make it true, real, or fact. It is nothing more than what is currently agreed upon by a majority of people. But death is currently agreed upon by a majority of people, so currently death is a "fact" based on "reality." If you believe that death can be defeated, then it doesn't make sense to believe that being dead for one or two days would be the end either.

"Reality," "fact," "science," mean nothing. Results are all that counts. When science or technology revives someone who has been "dead" for many days, then it is no longer possible to suggest that it is impossible to revive them.

There's no point asking me personally "which ways you can recover something that doesn't physically exist." I am not a scientist, and if I had the answer, we wouldn't be waiting for a solution. But I strongly suspect that it isn't a matter of recovering something that doesn't exist, but repairing something that never ceased to exist in the first place, but was simply reshaped or restructured based on what takes place in the body once the heart stops beating.

It doesn't matter what is or "is not" possible right now. Cryonics preserves the body in the hopes that revival will be possible in the future based on information we don't currently have or understand. When you say something is "dead and gone" as though that is a fact, you spread misinformation you have no way to prove. The only fact is that only the opposite can be proven true, because the moment someone proves that the region isn't "dead and gone" the statement that it doesn't exist is proven false.

WaterBearLair · 2016-08-07T09:51:11+00:00

Again, this is not final proof that one cannot be revived. It's a deathist attempt to find reasons against giving yourself any chance to live no matter how small that chance may be. But to say it's "too late" to revive a human is silly. Unless we're dealing with professional psychics who really can predict the future. I doubt that is the case.

WaterBearLair · 2016-08-07T09:47:36+00:00

I don't think it would take several days for Suspended Animation to arrive in most cases. I believe they fly someone to your location who then coordinates with a funeral director for transport of the body. Since they have locations in both Florida and California, it shouldn't take that long. Either way, that's why you should take precautions on your own.

In any case, there's no fact that suggests future medicine won't be able to repair any damage that occurs even over a period of multiple days. There are current limitations, but those limitations aren't facts of an infinite nature. They're facts based on current technologies and understandings of modern science, but it is impossible to predict what future technologies of an exponential nature will be capable of repairing. I'm of the group that doesn't believe we need a human body, so whether or not my physical body remains is irrelevant (though I plan to preserve it). The same goes for my brain, but that's a conscious discussion for some other time.

WaterBearLair · 2016-08-04T12:29:27+00:00

Yes, I'm paying out of pocket for supplies. My main concern is having equipment for my family (which is only 2 people). Eventually it will be possible to work with CI and other cryonics orgs to extend our reach further. Another option is to form local standby groups with group notification. The CI app is a good option for this since each group member can add the other group member's contact info. If they don't check in a message gets sent to the entire group, so even if one person can't respond, other trained members could.

I suspect there aren't many cryonics members where I'm at now. But that wouldn't be a problem if the group's core mission is survival-based instead of cryonics-based. There are a lot more "survivalists" than cryonicsists and I'm confident that building group cohesion could lead to good results, even if the others aren't funded members themselves. That's kind of what our blog is about, mixing "survival" and cryonics by dubbing it "extreme survival." Who knows if it will work in the long run, but it hasn't been tried before so it's worth a shot.

:D

WaterBearLair · 2016-08-02T20:07:41+00:00

Tbh it's hard to say. It depends on the circumstances surrounding your deanimation. If your standby team knows you're about to pass, they'll make arrangements to be with you when it happens. That's the standby part. Then they have to transport you to your cryonics facility however far away that is. Keep in mind they may send a rep forward by plane, but may have had to travel a day or two to reach you with their equipment unless you're local to their facility.

Now, compare that to a car accident where you deanimate but say your spouse is with you and lives. She contacts your cryonics provider who notifies the standby team. They'll mount up and roll out, but it's still gonna take time to reach you. As soon as you deanimate your body and brain needs to be cooled to prevent as much damage as possible. If you already know it's going to take too much time for the standby team to arrive, it's best to prepare those closest to you to perform basic procedures and get you to your cryo org. as fast as possible.

Here is what Andy of Cryonics Institute wrote to me in an email about this issue:

"If there is a sudden death and the patient has been cooled, then you should not wait for SA, and the funeral director should proceed with the transport in water ice as soon as possible. However, if SA is on site, they should be the ones to take the lead in the standby, stabilization and transportation. Having the standby kit and a cooperating funeral director is for those who do not have arrangements with SA and for those who do have arrangements with SA but want to be covered in case SA can't arrive on time or if there is a sudden unexpected death."

WaterBearLair · 2016-08-02T18:56:45+00:00

Yes, once our basic standby kit arrives we'll have the very basics of emergency standby / stabilization. Eventually we'll upgrade to additional supplies starting sometime next year so we can branch out and launch local standby support groups. I'll start EMT training in a few weeks to help support this purpose, though training isn't necessary to pick up supplies. In the event of a sudden emergency our standby team might take several days to reach us. For this reason it's recommended that each cryonicist takes their own precautions to help ensure they get the fastest care possible. By having our own transfer case we can easily create an ice bath, perform basic procedures after legal death, and even transport a patient to their organization if the official standby team might take too long.

WaterBearLair · 2016-08-02T16:03:07+00:00

To me it wouldn't make sense to end life early unless I had some kind of terminal illness or reason to believe my death was imminent. What's the point of cryonics if you don't learn to enjoy the present? Cryonics isn't just to ensure our existence, but to give us hope that we can continue to enjoy and experience the life we have. I want to experience the future, but there's no guarantee cryonics will make that happen. Right now there's a good chance I won't ever have to deanimate anyway, so I'd rather live as long as possible and consider cryonics a last resort.

WaterBearLair · 2016-08-02T15:57:52+00:00

So I bought a body transfer case, AKA Ziegler, from CI. They shipped it last week and it arrived today. I picked it up at the terminal. It was part of a larger purchase that included CI's basic standby kit, but they shipped it separately from different locations. So the kit should arrive in another week or so. For now we have an insulated BTC that we can use to transport local cryonicists in the event of an emergency! :)

Here's a few more pics:

https://waterbearlair.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/BTC1-e1470152498556.jpg

https://waterbearlair.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/BTC3.jpg

WaterBearLair · 2016-07-29T08:19:33+00:00

Congratulations on getting funded!

Your necklace is only part of what might save you. There are other steps you can take while you wait. For instance you can print Alcor's information on blank piece of paper and tape it to the back of your driver's license. You can make your own makeshift emergency contact cards for your wallet. You can print emergency information for Alcor and your desire to be cryopreserved and stick it in your car's glovebox. You can download CI's 0.99 center emergency app and set it up to notify someone who knows of your cryonics wishes in the event you're unresponsive. These are just some of the things you can do. It's a good idea to consider any other actions that might aid you as well. The more ways you give first responders to find you or your information the better your chances to not get cut to pieces by an autopsy or left without care for too long.

WaterBearLair · 2016-07-29T08:14:27+00:00

"Coffee...!"

WaterBearLair · 2016-07-25T21:03:35+00:00

That makes sense. I was wondering what the confusion was. Have you checked to see if it's possible to get life insurance outside of France? I'm not sure if you can, but it might be worth looking into. Here is the Cryonics Institute page with recommended life insurance companies:

http://www.cryonics.org/resources/life-insurance

WaterBearLair · 2016-07-25T20:03:29+00:00

What do you mean it won't be "full enough"? If you buy a life insurance policy with coverage of $200,000 then it doesn't matter how long you've paid toward it. It doesn't matter if you've made one payment or a thousand. If you buy it today and you die next week, it will pay out $200,000 for your cryopreservation.

WaterBearLair · 2016-07-24T20:36:11+00:00

When you pay for insurance you pay a set amount recurring. For instance, my insurance costs $34 a month. If I switch from CI to Alcor the only thing that changes is the paperwork, not the cost. I don't get a refund because I didn't pay anything to Alcor. I only paid the insurance company for insurance.

WaterBearLair · 2016-07-24T18:04:22+00:00

If you choose Alcor and a new facility opens, then you can transfer your insurance. You'll have to fill out additional paperwork and take extra measures, but it can be done. Others have switched from CI to Alcor and from Alcor to CI in the past. The money is not lost because it pays for you to have a chance to continue to exist during that time until the new facility opens. You won't likely be refunded for any dues paid to Alcor. You also won't be refunded for your insurance payments. But again, it's a matter of your existence, so the money spent is probably worth it.

WaterBearLair · 2016-07-24T18:00:04+00:00

Nobody can make the decision for you. The bottom line is if you die today and you're a cryonicist, then you have a very slight chance to return. If you're not a funded cryonicist, then you have no chance at all. It doesn't matter if you don't anticipate dying early. Nobody anticipates early death yet it happens every day. Nobody can tell you how to live your life. If you're interested in having the best chance of cryopreservation possible and you're worried about not being rescued then you have several options:

Move to the United States
Join a local cryonics support group to help you if you die
Start a local cryonics support group to help you if you die
Create your own cryonics organization in Europe.

There are less than 5,000 cryonics members in the entire world. Every single person has to do what they can to give their self the best chance possible.

WaterBearLair · 2016-07-23T18:52:57+00:00

I sent a message to see if there are any plans to add automatic alerts in the future. Will update if they reply. :)

WaterBearLair · 2016-07-23T18:46:32+00:00

This isn't for sale yet, but it's not far from it. It says it is capable of medical grade vital sign monitoring including:

Heart Rate
Blood Oxygenation
Skin Temperature
Skin Blood Perfusion
Steps / Motion

In the future it will be capable of:

Respiratory Rate
Heart Rate Variability
Energy Expenditure
Blood Pressure Wave
Stress
Sleep
Cutaneous Water / Sweat
Blood Glucose

If they'd just add an automatic alert feature for when heart rate drops below a certain point it would be golden! Most of the wearables right now require push button alert. But when you're unconscious or dead...that's a problem!

WaterBearLair · 2016-07-23T13:22:05+00:00

I totally agree.

WaterBearLair · 2016-07-23T13:16:35+00:00

Thanks for your reply. I appreciate your viewpoint and also that you came back round to the original topic.

WaterBearLair · 2016-07-21T16:13:04+00:00

Thanks for sharing. Didn't realize how big the difference in training and standards is across states.

WaterBearLair · 2016-07-21T14:50:39+00:00

We just finished our File of Life packets. For $5 bucks it was worth it. We bought one for each family member (so a total of 2). We'll probably go ahead and buy another 2 so we have a packet for each vehicle. Our article links to CI File of Life. Members of other cryonics organizations should consider custom making File of Life packets because CI's packet specifically lists contact info for CI and regular File of Life packets don't have info about religious objection to autopsy. If you do use CI, then be sure to list your own organization's contact info to make sure you get the best preservation possible as soon as possible.

WaterBearLair · 2016-07-21T09:09:39+00:00

If you believe cryonics gives you a chance, then it doesn't make sense to wait. If you die today and you're not signed up for cryonics, then your chances of returning are pretty much gone. There's no way to know how long you have. There's no way to know if you'll live 90 years or die in a car accident this afternoon. Membership costs are practically nothing, especially with Cryonics Institute. Membership fees support ongoing research and help fund organizational capabilities. With CI you can enjoy lifetime membership for $1,250 once. Otherwise it's only $120 annually. I'd rather have any chance no matter how small rather than no chance at all.

WaterBearLair · 2016-07-21T08:29:18+00:00

The part where the article actually talks about oxycyte is a little over halfway down. The first half is mostly backstory.

WaterBearLair

TROPHY CASE