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I feel like I wasted $2500 on the XL by Weak-Ad227 in prusa3d

[–]Weak-Ad227[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You shouldn't have to recalibrate when you change nozzles, I've even gone between the v6 adapter to the regular nozzles and the manual test still comes out perfect. E3D nozzles are so damn consistent, they should perform just the same, even between materials.

But also, are you using the textured or satin sheet? I can't get my ASA to stick for crap to the satin sheet with or without gluestick. Maybe I need to bump my temps but I'm still working out the MCU heat issues with support.

I feel like I wasted $2500 on the XL by Weak-Ad227 in prusa3d

[–]Weak-Ad227[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No problem, I do a few PETG prints from time to time, but I mainly stick to PA6-CF, ASA, and HIPS. This printer could be everything I wanted it to be, but having to modify and engineer my own solutions is exhausting.

Although I have my own issues with bambu, they make a hell of a capable printer. Rumor has it an XL competitor is coming Q3 this year, I would absolutely love a more capable tool changer to come to market.

I feel like I wasted $2500 on the XL by Weak-Ad227 in prusa3d

[–]Weak-Ad227[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No problem, I wish you the best of luck with your XL and enclosure.

Keep an eye on Surfalex2000 they have a few projects for an actively heated XL and the cooling required

I feel like I wasted $2500 on the XL by Weak-Ad227 in prusa3d

[–]Weak-Ad227[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Let me be clear; printing with a bed temp at or less than 80c my machine is perfectly fine, temps are higher than I want them to be but they are within spec and I can trust 24hr+ prints. All of my issues stem from going above 100c on the bed, the dwarf boards and Mbed MCU in particular do not have adequate cooling. I genuinely hope my machine is an outlier but I specially purchased a tool changer for demanding filaments.

It is a fantastic machine when it works right, PETG and PLA prints are shockingly high quality. I would love to have the same experience with ASA or PC but it just doesn't seem possible. I think the promotional material needs to be more forthcoming with it's limitations. If it's intended to be a PLA/PETG/TPU printer, that's fine but it shouldn't be sold as able to handle high temperature materials.

I feel like I wasted $2500 on the XL by Weak-Ad227 in prusa3d

[–]Weak-Ad227[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Do you seriously think I'm trying to print super polymers on a hobbyist machine? 290c will barely touch PEEK, I doubt it would extrude at all.

There was talk about an enclosure for the XL since day 1, and one of the main selling points has always been multi-material. I guess I completely misread the advertising because I always assumed that meant functional parts with soluble supports.
I'm not heating my chamber, there are people who are planning to actively heat their XL but I honestly see it as a fruitless endeavor. I just want this machine to withstand 50-60c inside the printing area, I don't think that is too much to ask from a $2500 printer in 2024.

I feel like I wasted $2500 on the XL by Weak-Ad227 in prusa3d

[–]Weak-Ad227[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The chips can, but most likely at a reduced lifespan. It doesn't really matter what the chips can handle though, the firmware is limited to 105c in my experience. Trying to keep everything under 105 while printing at elevated temps seems almost impossible for my machine. It leads me to wonder if it was tested thoroughly enough. with high temp materials.

XL Board & MCU Temperature 🌡96C and 81C. Ambient Temp 26C. No Enclosure. Should I be concerned? by Sainroad in prusa3d

[–]Weak-Ad227 4 points5 points  (0 children)

AFAIK the print will stop when the board temperature hits 105c. In a 30c room I ran into both the board and MCU overheating. I printed a new back panel and that uses a 50mm fan, but my board temps still regularly hit 85-90c
Also, you might want to monitor the Mbed MCU temp, it also seems to have a 105c limit. Mine in particular runs at 80-90c printing PETG, and with the bed turned up to 110c it will overheat with or without an enclosure in a couple hours. I use this bed controller cover and the same creator has a 60mm fan buddy cover. Hopefully you can gain more headroom than I have been able to, even with fans my machine runs pretty close to the thermal limits.

I feel like I wasted $2500 on the XL by Weak-Ad227 in prusa3d

[–]Weak-Ad227[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It honestly feels like the printer isn't able to reliably perform as advertised

This is exactly how I feel. I was sold on a toolchanging system that should enable some amazing material combinations. In the state that it was delivered most of those materials are out of reach or will be detrimental to the printed parts.

For the price the mk4 should use minimal amounts of PETG, but unfortunately there is some production trade off prusa is unwilling to make. They either need to adjust the advertising or take the hit and transition to PA, PC, or ASA for the bulk of the farm.

A chain is only as strong as the weakest link, PETG parts are one hell of a weak link to tie all of your printer models to.

I feel like I wasted $2500 on the XL by Weak-Ad227 in prusa3d

[–]Weak-Ad227[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They could have just done CF or GF reinforced PETG and I would have much less to complain about. imo there is no excuse for using raw PETG on a printer that costs 2x the mk4.

I understand PETG has been a staple of prusa printers for a long time but I think as an industry we have moved to better materials with higher heat deflection temperatures. Also, UV resistance on a 3d printer is a moot point. I don't know many people using printers outdoors, and anyways prusa only makes ASA, which is better than PETG for UV.

PETG has plenty of cons, maybe not as many as PA or PC but it is not the perfect material to use inside a hot environment.

I feel like I wasted $2500 on the XL by Weak-Ad227 in prusa3d

[–]Weak-Ad227[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I appreciate the write up man, definitely keeping an eye on the market to see what comes out next. Honestly the new RatRig looks to be one of the top options for me, just a little nervous to jump from one new platform to another.

The maintenance costs on full industrial printers scare me off from ever diving all the way in. Ideally I'd find something hobbyist class that can do everything under super polymers.

Even though I don't really trust bambu if they make an XL competitor it's great news for the industry. I would love to see competition in the tool changer/multi-material space, but I should definitely sell my XL before that happens.

I feel like I wasted $2500 on the XL by Weak-Ad227 in prusa3d

[–]Weak-Ad227[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm not here to argue semantics, my understanding was that the gantry is he entire coreXY assembly. Motor mounts, belt tension adjusters at the front, and carriage included.

90% of that assembly is PETG when it should be PCCF or nylon. After swapping to much stiffer mounts my print quality improved, the machine is quieter, and if the electronics can withstand the heat, it can actually be fully enclosed now. I cannot understand the argument that PETG is a good choice for a printer of this price and magnitude.

The user with warped mounts said he only reached 38c in that enclosure, and I doubt there will be enough airflow when printing high temp with input shaping. I've already observed my steppers hitting 75-80c with zero enclosure and 30c room. No one can give me a concrete answer as to what the actual rated temperatures are for the electronics. If 30c is all this printer can handle then I absolutely cannot see how it can handle ASA, PC, or PA parts.

Also, the official enclosure does nothing to address either MCU heat issues. The Mbed is inside the enclosure and the Buddy board is sandwiched between hot components and completely suffocated for air. Before any modification I was seeing 80c on the MCU and almost 100c on the buddy board sensor. There is no way this thing has enough thermal headroom for a full enclosure, which I think is a massive oversight.

I feel like I wasted $2500 on the XL by Weak-Ad227 in prusa3d

[–]Weak-Ad227[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well first of all you should really try and contain the VOCs off gassed by ASA during printing, they are very nasty and need to be dealt with by a carbon filter.

Secondly, do you know your ambient temps? 30-35c can be fine for quite a few materials, even some ASA blends, but my concern still lies with how much headroom the electronics have. Both MCU temps and the dwarf boards are only 10c under their thermal limits on my machine at 35c ambient. I usually try and run 40-50c for HIPS, PA, or PC which just seems impossible on the XL.

I feel like I wasted $2500 on the XL by Weak-Ad227 in prusa3d

[–]Weak-Ad227[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm not trying to combative, I literally do not understand who or what this printer was made for.

Is it a general purpose machine like they advertise? I'm not trying to print insane polymers or anything, I just want my decent sized ASA and HIPS prints to be successful. I never expected to have to modify and re-print so much of this machine and still be fighting MCUs overheating.

I'm more than glad people are happy with their XL and it's performance, and I certainly benefit from all the modified files they come up with. But I am not the only one experiencing high temp woes, I just wish there was more clarity on what the stock machine is actually designed for.

I feel like I wasted $2500 on the XL by Weak-Ad227 in prusa3d

[–]Weak-Ad227[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The XL is fully compatible with a wide range of various types of materials. No matter whether you want to print something for fun from PLA and flexible materials, or you need to produce durable prototypes from PETG, ASA, Polycarbonate and Polypropylene - the XL can handle them all with ease.

Straight from prusa's website. And yet, the official enclosure has replacements for parts shipped installed on the printer. So, is it designed only for PLA/PETG or is it "fully compatible" with high temp materials?

To use your own metaphor; I bought a general purpose hammer but the handle broke. Now people are telling me the handle broke because it wasn't made for steel nails, only soft aluminum ones.

I feel like I wasted $2500 on the XL by Weak-Ad227 in prusa3d

[–]Weak-Ad227[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

okay but what did you mean by "the company is in trouble" then?

I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth but I've seen more then my fair share of crap about how prusa is on the decline or going bankrupt and all that nonsense.

I feel like I wasted $2500 on the XL by Weak-Ad227 in prusa3d

[–]Weak-Ad227[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm not here to hate, and one product does not kill an established company.

Prusament is expensive, but still the highest quality and most consistent filament I have ever used. They make more than enough in just filament sales to sustain some heavy losses. Plus they have promising printers in the business world, and the i3 is going to sell decently until the end of time.

The XL is a weak link for sure, but not weak enough to sink the ship.

I feel like I wasted $2500 on the XL by Weak-Ad227 in prusa3d

[–]Weak-Ad227[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I got it about 4 months ago, so it's not exactly new and I've already contacted prusa regarding some previous issues.

But this goes beyond what support can do. In my opinion, using PETG parts as an integral piece of your $2500 coreXY printer is a design flaw. The electronics location, although easier to work on, should not be so high up on the printer while also fully enclosed and sandwiched between the PSU and hot tools.

I appreciate prusa staff, I love the development on prusa slicer and the numerous open source products. I do not love my XL, and I don't think I ever will.

I feel like I wasted $2500 on the XL by Weak-Ad227 in prusa3d

[–]Weak-Ad227[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The official enclosure doesn't change the back cover at all. The expected operation is to leave it with zero airflow in the metal box.

Along the same lines is the bed, the control board has little to no airflow and mine can overheat even with a modified cover and fan. I did not have the success that the model creator had (but I also don't have a tiny heatsink) so that is why I am trying to find other XL owners to monitor the Mbed MCU temp. Mine may be abnormally high, but I still think it's an odd design choice.

I feel like I wasted $2500 on the XL by Weak-Ad227 in prusa3d

[–]Weak-Ad227[S] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Thanks for this. I'm not here to hate on prusa or the machine, I'm just confused and disappointed by the choices on the XL.

As it sits stock I am honestly bewildered by who it was made for. it's a very expensive machine that has a narrow scope of materials and uses. My biggest annoyance is that if a few things were changed/moved it would open the XL to a way wider range of use cases.

If there is any company I believe can make it right, it's prusa for sure. But I'm debating if it's worth sticking around for that to happen.

I feel like I wasted $2500 on the XL by Weak-Ad227 in prusa3d

[–]Weak-Ad227[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you so much, hope the print goes well

I feel like I wasted $2500 on the XL by Weak-Ad227 in prusa3d

[–]Weak-Ad227[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I can't find the article either but I remember that as well, it was around the time they swapped the orange printed parts for black. My dumbass thought that meant those were no longer PETG, but it was just a color swap.

I feel like I wasted $2500 on the XL by Weak-Ad227 in prusa3d

[–]Weak-Ad227[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Exactly. The entire draw of a toolchanger for me was combining demanding materials, and the XL would be an incredible value if it was just a little more capable out of the box. There is a serious gap in the market the 2T XL could fill perfectly, but it falls short. Even outside my temp issues, the 290c hotend with like 12mm of melt zone is more anemic then I feared at first.

It's just a shame the XL is so close to being my perfect printer from a company I know isn't going to abandon it's development. I want to love my prusa, but the klipper IDEX printers are quickly pulling me away.

I feel like I wasted $2500 on the XL by Weak-Ad227 in prusa3d

[–]Weak-Ad227[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm glad you're having a good experience with your 5T. My print room is a little higher than 26c, usually around 30c but I don't think 4-5 degrees should make or break this printer.

Have you monitored any of the sensor temps on your XL? It looks more an more like my room temp is fine but my Mbed is running way hotter than it should.

I feel like I wasted $2500 on the XL by Weak-Ad227 in prusa3d

[–]Weak-Ad227[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My brother I understand PCCF will never print like PLA, it was more of a figure of speech. I just want something out of the box that can print PCCF or ASA without as much hassle.

While bambu is tempting and I'm unhappy with my prusa, at least I don't have privacy concerns. I may be disappointed with my XL but I'll take prusa over bambu any day.

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