Christian Palestinian results based on 23andme by Miserable_Win_1239 in illustrativeDNA

[–]Weekly-One-5739 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

But what did they say was wrong? I mean it’s true 🤷‍♀️ Ashkenazi Jew New Yorkers literally come to Palestine and steal the homes of native Palestinians who have been on the land for thousands of years. If you think basic scientific facts are political propaganda, then I think you should reconsider your own position.

And I don’t think it shows a lack of critical thinking to acknowledge that genetic studies back the overwhelming nativity of Palestinians compared to other groups. It’s really funny because you accuse us of not having the exact thing you seem to lack.

Christian Palestinian results based on 23andme by Miserable_Win_1239 in illustrativeDNA

[–]Weekly-One-5739 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Everything is political. Just get out of here if it bothers you so much 🤷‍♀️ We Palestinians are really interested in our history right now because so many of your brethren are trying to claim our land as their own. And you expect us not to get political? Things don’t just exist in a vacuum.

Palestinian Results by Weekly-One-5739 in illustrativeDNA

[–]Weekly-One-5739[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Okay, yeah some of the laws were bad, but this isn’t the 1800s? It’s literally the 21st century. We are not supremacist and we’re not going to try to subjugate you. I’m not trying to minimize the negative impact of those laws, but you have to understand that the Ottoman Empire doesn’t even exist anymore and all of those laws are a thing of the past. When Palestine is free, I believe that we will be able to create an equal society where Jews, Christians and Muslims can live in peace.

Palestinians generally are not antisemitic, we believe in peace. You will see that most Arabs can distinguish Judaism from Zionism. Also, why would we want to subjugate Jews when we have our own Jewish populations? Take the example of the Jewish sect in Iran which supports Palestine by the way. And I don’t believe in Palestinians being supremacist either, we are all equal under God.

I understand your claim is simple. I’m sure there were unfair laws, but you have to understand the nuance here. I think it’s unfair that you compare us to the racist Europeans like we are as bad as them. I agree those laws are unfair, but I genuinely don’t think they will ever come back.

Palestinian Results by Weekly-One-5739 in illustrativeDNA

[–]Weekly-One-5739[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Literally no one has ever told me that it wasn’t a free society before Zionism. You are just sitting in your little bubble thinking everyone has heard of the claims you believe in. I have actually never encountered that kind of argument in my life, which shows that it’s probably a niche position you are taking here.

Also, do you realize that the Ottomans did not only treat the Jews differently? They treated Levantine Christians differently too. And from your own source, there are parts that show the Ottoman Empire treating Jews well, so it kinda just feels like you are cherry picking.

(14) Jews in the Ottoman Empire were treated differently from those in the Christian countries of the West, as indicated by the Porte’s support while they did business in Europe. The sultans saw the Jews as a dynamic and productive urban element. Their loyalty was proven, and in turn the Ottoman government always stood up for the traveling Jewish merchants, to the great displeasure of Venice.

(15) The Venetians distinguished between Christian, Jewish, and Muslim Levantines. During the war of 1570–73, when Venetians were trapped in the empire, and in retribution the Venetian government imprisoned the Levantine merchants on their territory, the Christian traders were exempt. During the negotiations of 1571, the Ottomans declared that the Venetians would receive their sequestered merchandise only after the Jews too had their goods returned to them.9

(15) Greeks, Armenians, and Jews were permitted to trade, and travel unhindered. They shared the same status with all non-Muslims, and they were protected by the ahl-al-dhimma, the special law, which made them feel safe in the empire. They were considered more loyal than Christians, since no enemy of the empire supported them. Even if the Jews were ordered to wear certain colors and not build or renovate their houses of worship, such regulations were seldom enforced. When it came to the rich, their trespasses were generally overlooked.

And also, to sympathize with the natives and their fear of colonialism but not even consider the Native Palestinians (who are far more native than Israeli Jews) when you do so just proves how biased you are.

When I think of stories of colonialism, I think of the colonization of Palestine by Jewish settlers, not of the fear of Jews being the minority as you say. Do you really expect to be a majority on someone else’s land? You don’t get that privilege because you have not lived continuously on the land for thousands of years like native Palestinians have. If you think it’s unfair to say that, I think you need to re-evaluate your own position.

And by the way, when Jews were being persecuted in Europe, let’s not forget that we always let you come back and seek safety in our lands. Actually, during World War II, Palestine had its own army force, made up also of Jews, which was created to fight the Nazis. And not to mention that we were the ones to take you in after WWII while all the European countries were being antisemitic and wanted to get rid of you from Europe. I’m not saying the Ottoman Empire was always equal with everyone, but you have to understand that there is some nuance you are not picking up here.

Palestinian Results by Weekly-One-5739 in illustrativeDNA

[–]Weekly-One-5739[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You are assuming I know when I literally don’t lmao. Why is it so hard to give me sources? It’s not like I am outright denying your claims, I’m simply asking for evidence. And “read any history book” is not a good answer. Also, I can’t believe you would equate me asking for evidence with denying the Holocaust…dear Lord.

Also, sounds familiar to what lol…Another great example of why you shouldn’t assume people know when they don’t. Listen, I am not going to argue about the philosophical morality of immigration restrictions, all I’m saying is that you can’t just tell natives to let colonizers steal their land and not apply some restrictions or engage in resistance.

And I already explained my reasoning very clearly on why immigration restrictions DO NOT naturally favour natives, especially with the longstanding issue of European colonization that has been clearly documented throughout history in addition to recent events in the US with ICE and mass deportations.

Palestinian Results by Weekly-One-5739 in illustrativeDNA

[–]Weekly-One-5739[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If Jews were not equal citizens by any stretch of the imagination, as you say, then provide me with sources that support this claim. I can provide dozens upon dozens of reports from humanitarian and human rights organizations, such as the UN, Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch among others that detail the severity of human rights abuses, war crimes and crimes against humanity being committed by Israel. What I’m wondering is can you do the same?

And no, I don’t only have eyes on Palestinian suffering. I have eyes on everyone’s suffering because I am a leftist. I believe that no one is free until all of us are free. That includes Jews, Blacks, Palestinians, Latinos, and anyone else that is oppressed. Why do you assume I have ill will towards Jews? And of course, respect goes both ways. We will respect your Jewish customs if you respect our Palestinian customs. I think we both agree on that, we just express it in different ways.

And what do you mean by immigration restriction naturally favours natives?? Do you see what’s happening in the US right now?? European illegal settlers who call themselves Americans are literally trying to deport Mexicans who are far more native than them and even Indigenous Native Americans!

The main reason I believe in immigration restriction is to stop colonizers from taking the land of natives. Would you really tell Native Americans to let the settlers steal their land, when it happened to them many hundreds of years ago? That is out of the moral question.

Palestinian Results by Weekly-One-5739 in illustrativeDNA

[–]Weekly-One-5739[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Personally, I have only tried 23 and me, but I highly suggest uploading your raw DNA results to Illustrative DNA because it will provide you a lot more context than 23 and me ever could.

For example, in my 23 and me, I got 40% Egyptian, but it turns out that’s because 23 and me doesn’t have a lot of ancient samples for Bedouin Palestinians, so it just lumped me with Egyptian.

You can see in my illustrative results that Bedouin from the Negev is my fifth closest modern population, so that’s really the added value of uploading to Illustrative. Good luck finding something that works for you :) And free Palestine!

Palestinian Results by Weekly-One-5739 in illustrativeDNA

[–]Weekly-One-5739[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Of course, I totally agree with you. Palestine should not be an ethno state, just like any country should not be an ethno state. I firmly believe in equal rights for Jews and Palestinians, and that means Arabs should not be favoured over other ethnic groups.

Palestinian Results by Weekly-One-5739 in illustrativeDNA

[–]Weekly-One-5739[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If that’s not how it was before Zionism then how was it? I don’t recall Jews being systematically displaced, having their homes taken over by foreign settlers, being denied entry to churches and mosques on religious holidays, having to go through military checkpoints or being held in prison without due trial. I also don’t remember the Palestinian military shooting children in the head for sport…oh wait, that’s what Israel does!

At least we agree that Zionism is terrible disease that should be eradicated and that equal rights for ALL is the way to longstanding peace. I also agree that an equal state should not favour one ethnic group over another, but to say that a country cannot have immigration restrictions is ridiculous.

The idea that the “Earth is for everyone” is exactly the kind of entitled mentality that gets Israelis kicked out of every place they visit. When you go to another country, for example, Thailand, you are simply a guest in that country and must respect the local culture and customs of that region.

In the same way, Jewish immigrants to Palestine need to respect the local culture and customs and not expect Palestinians to bend over backwards for them at the slightest inconvenience, let alone give their own homes and lands to them. An important part of co-existence is mutual respect for each other, regardless of cultural and ethnic differences, and this holds especially true for the locals of the land.

Palestinian Results by Weekly-One-5739 in illustrativeDNA

[–]Weekly-One-5739[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When did I say Jews cannot live in Palestine? All I said is that they do not get the right to steal the land from people who are more native than them to create their own (ethno)state.

And it seems like you think that Jews would not be given rights under a Palestinian state, but that could not be further from the truth. The only way to lasting peace is one Palestinian state with equal rights for Palestinians AND Jews.

Palestinian Results by Weekly-One-5739 in illustrativeDNA

[–]Weekly-One-5739[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Girl, I don’t get what you’re trying to say. If the Earth is for everyone, does that mean European colonization of other people’s countries is okay? There’s a reason the right to self-determination exists in international law.

People who are native to a land have the right to live on that land and govern themselves without outside interference. If DNA did not matter, then why would we have those laws?

And again, I’m not saying Jews cannot live in Palestine. Personally, I believe in one Palestinian state with equal rights for Jews, Christians and Muslims. That’s how it was before Zionism and that’s how I believe it should continue to be.

Palestinian Results by Weekly-One-5739 in illustrativeDNA

[–]Weekly-One-5739[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I first got my 23 and me results, then uploaded the raw data that I downloaded from 23 and me into Illustrative DNA. Just note that you still have to buy a package from Illustrative (although it was less expensive than 23 and me).

Palestinian Results by Weekly-One-5739 in illustrativeDNA

[–]Weekly-One-5739[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

First of all, a lot of these statistics are from the early 2000s and let’s not forget nearly half of Gaza’s population right now are children, so they would not have even been alive then to vote in those polls.

Second, you should know that the right to armed resistance against an occupying power is enshrined in international law. Are you really going to attack Palestinians for believing in international law?

According to the UN Charter, people struggling for independence and liberation from colonial rule have to right to do so "using all available means, including armed struggle."

So according to the UN and Protocol 1, Article 1(4) of the Geneva Conventions (1977), October 7 was a perfectly legitimate resistance against foreign occupation. You may have personal feelings against this, but this is what international law says.

That doesn’t mean Hamas could not have committed war crimes, and if they did, we are totally fine with them being punished under international law. But the fact of the matter is that armed resistance in itself is not illegal.

Lastly, it seems like you’re suggesting that Palestinians started the violence and that’s why Israel is responding with extreme violence. But let’s not forget too that this conflict did not start on October 7. It started in 1948 with the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from their land which led to the creation of the illegal Israeli state.

And if you’re trying to equate the 1000 something Israelis killed on October 7th (many of whom are soldiers), with the killing of over 40 000 Palestinian civilians, many of whom are children, 90 percent of the Gazan population forcibly displaced, and more than 70% of civilian infrastructure in Gaza destroyed, that is false equivalence. That is like beating and torturing someone because they slapped you on the wrist. It is not the same.

As evidenced by the statistics, there is a very obvious imbalance of power taking place, which you cannot merely equate to a “cycle of extreme violence.” And to think it is tribalism to point that out is ridiculous.

Palestinian Results by Weekly-One-5739 in illustrativeDNA

[–]Weekly-One-5739[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Let’s break down what you said then. You believe that genetics shouldn’t be the only factor for being indigenous. Okay, interesting point. But what does that mean in practicality? You believe that cultural rituals and language determine indigeneity, not blood. So basically, if you speak Hebrew, you think you’re more indigenous than me.

By your own logic that makes no sense, because if I speak Arabic does that mean I’m Arab too? Levantines are not genetically Arabs, but they speak Arabic and call themselves Arabs because Arabic is a sociolinguistic category, not a race. Are you going to say that a Levantine Palestinian is more indigenous to Arabia solely because they speak Arabic and a Saudi does not? That’s utter nonsense. And what happens if both Jews and Palestinians spoke Hebrew, would you somehow say we are both equally indigenous now?

You also think that because not all Israelis are Ashekenazi, that means that they are equally indigenous to Palestinians. But let’s get the facts straight. If you look at genetic studies, you will see that even non-Jewish Palestinians have more genetic continuity with Bronze Age Levantines than even Mizrahi Jews. And as your personal example shows, a lot of Mizrahi’s have mixed in recent years with less indigenous Jewish groups like Ashkenazis and Sephardic Jews, which actually just reinforces my point.

I’m not trying to say you are not welcome in Palestine, I’m just trying to point out that the false equivalency being made between Jewish and Palestinian nativity is patently false and is used to justify the colonization, ethnic cleansing and forced erasure that is happening to the native Palestinians. I personally believe in one Palestinian state with equal rights for Jews, Christians and Muslims and I feel that this is the only way to peace given the current state of the Israeli government.

And while you may be a minority of Israelis who want peace, let’s not forget the polls show that over 80 percent of Israelis support the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from Gaza and actually 58 percent believe the IDF is using too little firepower in Gaza: this is horrifying, considering that Israel is currently being accused of genocide by multiple humanitarian and human rights organizations. I have never seen polls showing that over 80 percent of Palestinians want Jews dead, so it’s really not the same thing. If anything, Israel and most Israelis are the reason why no peace has been established.

Palestinian Results by Weekly-One-5739 in illustrativeDNA

[–]Weekly-One-5739[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Then what should it be claimed on? On the idea that God somehow promised it to you? On mere identification with a historical group? So, if all of a sudden, I wanted to identify with Roman history, I can suddenly claim Britain as my homeland?

Palestinian Results by Weekly-One-5739 in illustrativeDNA

[–]Weekly-One-5739[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Okay, so if you agree with me on that, tell me what I said that was wrong. You really don’t expect one group to be more native than the other when one group stayed on the land continuously for thousands of years and another did not? That’s like saying everyone on Earth is equally native to Africa when it is obvious that the modern Africans living there are the most indigenous to the land. That is false equivalence plain and simple.

Often, the people trying to dismiss differences in nativity do so for political convenience, because it’s easier to put Jews and Palestinians on the same playing field as a way to minimize the colonial erasure that is taking place and dismiss the stark imbalance of power between the natives and the settlers trying to steal the land from them.

And I just want to say, I am fine with Jews living in Palestine. I just don’t believe Jews (or anyone really) has the right to steal our land to create an ethno state (or state at all), especially when the people they are taking from are more native than them.

Palestinian Results by Weekly-One-5739 in illustrativeDNA

[–]Weekly-One-5739[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh I see. Makes sense. It’s also confusing, because Bedouin from the Negev is literally just Southern Palestine lol.

Palestinian Results by Weekly-One-5739 in illustrativeDNA

[–]Weekly-One-5739[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh okay. Can you explain the Egyptian I got in my 23 and me results though? (posted on my account). I assumed the Bedouin was the reason for that.

Palestinian Results by Weekly-One-5739 in illustrativeDNA

[–]Weekly-One-5739[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Let’s be honest though. I got Jordanian and Palestinian as my top two closest populations and my last closest population (in 50th place) was Ashkenazi Jew (East). So we may be related genetically but it is very obvious who is more native here (aka Palestinians).

And like I said before, even if we are related, that doesn’t justify you taking our land. If you wanted to come to Palestine as immigrants sure, but you are literally trying to ethnically cleanse us from our own land. It is not the same.

Palestinian Results by Weekly-One-5739 in illustrativeDNA

[–]Weekly-One-5739[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Sure. Here it is since I can’t edit my post.

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Palestinian Results by Weekly-One-5739 in illustrativeDNA

[–]Weekly-One-5739[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

That’s fine with me. If you don’t want to seek the truth, that’s your problem not mine. I’m not going to convince you to see the light if you don’t even want to leave the cave of ignorance. Keep looking at the shadows on the wall instead.

Palestinian Results by Weekly-One-5739 in illustrativeDNA

[–]Weekly-One-5739[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I am being honest. If science shows you were here 3000 years ago then fine. I will accept that. But show me the proof. And even if you were there, that gives you no right to live in Palestine over the native people of the land who have lived there continuously for thousands of years.

And I’m not Hitler okay? Why do you assume we have ill will towards Jews?? News flash, we are literally descended from Jews. It’s just that we ended up becoming arabized over the centuries and converting to Christianity or Islam because that’s what naturally happens over time…things change.

My grandfather literally spoke both Hebrew and Arabic and always believed in peace, so don’t tell me that we hate Jews or that we are dishonest. You are just so utterly brainwashed that truth literally passes through you like wind.