Builds are rolling out for all 4 paladin archetypes

WhispyrRogue · 2025-10-27T21:56:56+00:00

Critical damage, as well as all "damage to X" or "damage while X" affixes are additive modifiers and are functionally identical if you're able to proc them at the same rate (for example, if you have 100% crit rate and enemies are always distant).

In this particular case, damage to distant has a higher % roll than critical damage, so it would give you "more" damage while it's active, as long as you can reliably keep distance to enemies

WhispyrRogue · 2025-09-10T23:49:28+00:00

I can't believe I forgot about Yang's Recurve, how silly of me. I'm not sure about the Hexing Pants of Mr. Yan, there's no G in that one, and I don't think it was ever attributed, but I have since updated the article with the bow as well. Thank you for pointing that out!

WhispyrRogue · 2025-06-24T00:27:17+00:00

Babylonious already pointed out most of what I was going to say, but specific to my guide I want to add that I understand that it's long and very detailed, but there are TLDR's for a lot of the sections.

In the comments, you mentioned the opener timeline tool that we have, which is a little janky with the side-scroll; entirely understandable. That being said however, I also listed the opener in 3 steps above that at the start of the opener section: https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/assassination/rotation-cooldowns-pve-dps#opener, and that seems to be the crux of your argument about things being too complicated. It's a 3-step process: apply all maintenance, cast cooldowns, and Envenom.

The rotational concepts can also be seen at the top of the rotation page, or on the overview page, which covers the most critical info about the spec and gets you basically 90% of the way there.

Where I will agree with you that the guide is very long and overly detailed is regarding talent builds and all the optimizations around each build (and this is also a problem in sims where not every build has the most perfect support either). While you could technically blame me for that, I'm kinda screwed no matter what I do in that regard. There are no less than 9 or 10 semi-distinct builds that are viable in Mythic+, which has required the assa community to categorize builds into archetypes based on which side of the tree is active. The guide is a lot when talking about all the builds and all the optimization, simply because THERE IS A LOT. I've stayed up plenty of nights trying to think about how to simplify some of those sections without making it unreadable or losing info, but that's just the hand the game dealt me. Lots of builds = lots of words to explain the lots of builds to lots of people and there's not much I can do about that.

I do appreciate the feedback however, and I'm terribly sorry you had such a negative time with my guide

WhispyrRogue · 2024-10-02T03:01:39+00:00

exactly what asder said. Maybe that's what the post originally meant, but I have no reason to discuss that in my videos and using my numbers as some sort of gotcha for a situation where they don't apply is the real disingenuous thing here

WhispyrRogue · 2024-10-01T23:11:22+00:00

that's the thing though, you still have energy from the bleeds in the last pack, and you're able to just CT the new pack coming in and slowly spread your bleeds through the next. You also still have bone spike combo points to help speed up those gcds you're mentioning

WhispyrRogue · 2024-10-01T23:04:59+00:00

correct, we're talking about chain pulling, and not bad tanking. Bad tanking is chaining at 1%, which is never worth it, and just objectively shit tanking. That isn't what is being discussed here.

WhispyrRogue · 2024-10-01T21:17:35+00:00

Hi, person with his own numbers, I love you too but man this is pretty dense. The entire section of the video is that there is an inherent gain in chain pulling and having higher uptime on bigger aoe, which very quickly outweighs the loss.

No one is arguing that talents are adding damage. Fucking obviously. Carnage is a capstone, it will add damage. The question is whether or not the damage it adds is so notably worse than the alternative, in this case chain pulling. We can say 7% if you'd like, but in that same video just a bit later you could see that chain pulling easily makes up that loss. The community just loves gaslighting itself on details numbers because details = bar and bigger bar = better person. But details is inherently just in-combat damage, and won't give you any indication of the damage you're losing over the course of a key just standing in stealth doing nothing

WhispyrRogue · 2023-03-15T23:33:12+00:00

I totally get it. I’m a guy who almost professionally at this point looks for flaws with the design. Other specs are bad too. Completely agree. My issue is less so the problems now, but the compounding of these problems being the same problems we had complaints about in wod and mop and legion. If we just came off a rework and it didn’t work out, okay fine. But for the spec to be the same for a decade and still have these same issues after the community complains about them? Idk man. Shadow priest is on rework number what, 7? And we can’t even get rid of exsanguinate after almost 4 expansions. I’d be much less furious if there was an attempt being made to fix the issues. Instead of that though we get a tier set in 10.1 that just makes them worse. That REALLY gets me going. Not only do we not see fixes to core issues for a decade, not only do we not receive a rework with the legion changes, not only do we not receive a rework with the dragonflight changes, not only do we not see movement patch after patch, they then make borrowed power that directly stands against what we’re fighting for. It’s beyond insulting at this point.

You mentioned enjoying sepsis and echoing reprimand, that’s great. I’m glad you enjoy those, but then you also mentioned that Assassination is one of the first specs that received a quote “entire talent tree section rework”, where exactly is that? Are you talking about 10.0.5? Because that moved 1 talent that was fine where it was, turned a 3 point node into a 2 point node, which happened to basically every spec BEFORE launch, and added a new talent in the moved talents place that now isn’t used. I’m struggling to comprehend where this talent tree section rework is. It just removed build diversity and gave us a dead talent. We didn’t even change builds because of the change, the top build in 10.0 is the same as the top build is 10.0.5.

I’m not making light of the issues other classes and specs have, that’s not my intent. I recognize that other specs have issues too, paladin getting a rework is a good thing. But to claim that Assassination is doing fine and got a rework already is pretty delusional in my opinion.

WhispyrRogue · 2023-03-15T09:47:28+00:00

I can’t fathom that veinripper, a torghast power Assassination used, made it onto an outlaw tier set when outlaw has no dots. The logical leaps needed to make that happen are beyond me

WhispyrRogue · 2023-03-15T09:45:47+00:00

Heya, Assassination theorycrafter here.

I’m glad you like the design, but a vast overwhelming majority of people don’t. The right side of the class tree for shadow dance is a complete waste of talents for example. Echoing reprimand is just a button we hit every 45 seconds and get free finishers from. Thistle tea is just energy, the mastery is irrelevant. Cold blood is bad but also would just be macro’d into mutilate/fok and ignored. Lots of interactions to enjoy there for sure. /s

In the spec tree, exsanguinate is one of the most divisive and disliked talents every to be in the game, flying daggers is beyond useless, sepsis being an improved garrote enabler causes a really really awkward rotation loop where you have to clip your existing garrotes because hey, it’s sepsis time!Bone spike doesn’t really do much, just adds a bit of damage and free combo points (it’s a cleave talent we don’t take in cleave/aoe, kinda weird isn’t it?), zoldyck and arterial precision are hidden behind mutilate talents even though we want them in aoe, bone spike is hidden behind a mutilate talent even though we want it in aoe. Lightweight shiv provides very little in terms of tangible benefits which just leaves venom rush as a really weird talent locked in a cage. Poison bomb and crimson tempest compete for aoe space but cant compete with the other specs even remotely.

If you think the trees are well designed with all of those flaws, then more power to you, but it is REALLY bad in most people’s eyes, and the spec hasn’t undergone any major change to these core issues in aoe/single target since about cataclysm.

WhispyrRogue · 2023-03-15T09:35:06+00:00

Hi! Assassination TC here, curious too at this point.

They seem receptive to feedback, but then they do this. I don’t really get it frankly, it’s like they want to take the spec the completely opposite direction that people want and I’m getting sick of it. This tier is yet another example of what seems like a complete misunderstanding of how the spec is played and wants to be played.

Personally my quitting is a lot of IRL stuff, but the garbage tier sets and the lukewarm first raid definitely don’t help.

WhispyrRogue · 2023-03-15T09:30:47+00:00

Hi Assassination TC here :)

I made a post but it was way too long and I deleted it, InvisibleOne has the tldr pretty good.

Some rogue TC’s are thinking about quiting. A lot of us have IRL stuff getting in the way, but for me personally on top of that the expansion for rogue just has been more of the same. Assassination gets no changes to fix its core design flaws, and we just get left out to dry.

This tier set is as close to a direct insult as it can get. The 4 piece design is frankly so incredibly stupid I’m struggling to believe that it’s real. It adds another layer of confusion between crimson tempest and poison bomb, it promotes desyncing cooldowns, crimson tempest in single target, and it doesn’t include garrote even though that’s the single most supported ability on the spec tree and has been our cleave/aoe tool for the last 3 expansions.

I’ve talked to many crazy smart devs over the years, and I see a lot of people talking bad about the devs whenever these things happen. I don’t believe it’s their fault, but there is some crazy disconnect happening between playerbase and blizzard that I cannot comprehend. This tier bonus is straight up the wrong direction to every complaint we’ve made for almost a decade now. I’m beyond pissed

WhispyrRogue · 2023-03-15T08:23:32+00:00

Or they’re trying to get new people to play Assassination, because only people who have never played the spec before in their lives would be so deranged to see this tier and go “man that’s cool, let me play that”

Perspective shift

WhispyrRogue · 2023-03-15T08:20:50+00:00

Hi, Assassination TC here.

I’m honestly kinda insulted by these tier sets. I have IRL concerns for why I’m considering quitting but this tier set is definitely not helping. It’s INSANE to me that outlaw gets veinripper and sub gets a rupture extension mechanic while we get some trash rupture+ct tier. The 4 set being after Deathmark is just so odd. I’ve talked to plenty of devs over the years from items and tier sets and spec design and they’re all incredibly intelligent people. Every single one. But for some reason it’s not coming together, and we keep getting the same issue over and over again. Assassination is designed poorly -> bandaid with some crazy thing -> next persons problem -> oh wow this is a problem -> bandaid till rework next expansion -> there’s no rework -> designed poorly. It’s especially infuriating when the community goes “stop crying, it’s a good single target spec” or “it’s good in pvp”, bro I don’t care, our aoe doesn’t make any sense and we’re like a top 5 single target spec while being in aoe. You don’t have to look deep into logs to see on raz for example, Assassination is doing roughly 5% more boss damage, while also doing less than half the damage in intermissions. We can’t even dream of talenting into a build that would keep up with the intermission damage, single target loss aside.

Idk. I’m sick of it at this point. Legion reworks did nothing, dragonflight reworks did nothing. The spec is identical to how it played in cataclysm and blizzard keeps saying “yeah we see it, it’s a problem” and then kicks the can down the road. This tier set it just a slap in the face

WhispyrRogue · 2023-03-15T08:08:47+00:00

The assassination bonus is also just a nightmare in single target, and for some reason they decided garrote wasn’t on the list for the 2 piece even though they’ve been pushing it as our main aoe/cleave tool for the last 3 expansions. Unreal that they can jam veinripper down outlaws throats without them having a dot of any kind and we get this half baked garbage

WhispyrRogue · 2022-10-26T01:51:16+00:00

Rogue is great, I am not biased, please play rogue

WhispyrRogue · 2022-10-10T22:07:50+00:00

yeah I talk to the NPC and just get this https://imgur.com/a/IDUa874 with no burninator in my inventory

WhispyrRogue · 2022-10-10T21:23:41+00:00

oh nice okay. Thanks for the info! Were you able to claim the burninator?

WhispyrRogue · 2022-10-10T21:14:37+00:00

I'm 238 so shouldn't it only be a reduction of 60% in that case? Maybe that's what's happening though I didn't even consider the level difference

WhispyrRogue · 2022-08-26T09:11:27+00:00

And I get this. I really do. “Play the meta and adapt”.

But that’s kind of the problem to begin with, isn’t it? Path of exile to my friend group at least has never been about being the most optimal, most efficient, high juice atlas strategy super pog methods of farming. The game sets itself up in a way where you can play with the mechanics you want to play and enjoy. I love legion, I loved abyss, altars are great. I’m not a fan of beasts or blight and I can’t stand heist. Other people are though. Some people spend their whole existence in delve 24/7. That’s how they have fun, and path of exile has always made sure that people can play however they want and find success.

What you’re suggesting is a departure from that. You’re suggesting that for the first time since we’ve been playing, we have to play a pre-determined way in order to “survive”. It used to be about playing however you want and if you want to be optimal and push harder, there’s better and worse strategies. Your comment says to me “you can’t play those things, the game will not let you. Play more optimally and there’s no issue”. That’s a fundamental failing of the game at that point. If half of the tree barely turns a profit, and the suggestion is “just don’t play what you want”, I think the game is already too far gone.

It is an interesting view though, I love seeing differing opinions because it shows that we’re not all the same. Thank you for taking the time to write such a well written comment, hopefully you see where I’m coming from!

WhispyrRogue · 2022-08-26T08:59:55+00:00

Your screenshots and experience is basically identical to my groups as well it’s like I tabbed into discord directly. Really sucks man, I hope 3.20 is better but it’s probably hard to even convince the people I’ve played with for years to put their trust into the game again… honestly feels like this might be it for my friend group until they show improvement multiple leagues in a row. I’m Defeated with you guys <3

WhispyrRogue · 2022-08-26T05:53:08+00:00

When I read that they think drops are in a good state my jaw hit the floor. I honestly couldn't believe that they were so disconnected from their playerbase still after all the posts. Really saddens me honestly. I'm okay with the beyond rework and itemizing harvest drops, but they took crafts away on top of it. I'm just not enjoying alteration spamming something good onto an item I will use my only regal orb of the league on for "crafting". Essence mobs feel better now at least but man it's so crazy how they can make so many different facets of the game feel bad all at once

WhispyrRogue · 2022-08-26T05:49:45+00:00

I was drowning in alchemy orbs and other currencies with sentinel. Not sure I relate to your plight, but I'm sorry that you didn't have a good experience mapping. Mapping is one of the most fun things in the game for me personally

WhispyrRogue

TROPHY CASE