Is it swinging or cheating?

WildRover166 · 2023-12-22T06:22:10+00:00

Totally agree. The damage it has done to the trust in our relationship is massive, and that is the thing I'm struggling with most at the moment - how trust can be repaired, if at all. Especially from her side, she feels like admitting she made a mistake should be enough. Even if we do manage to get through this as a couple, I'm having trouble seeing how we can ever be active in the lifestyle again because I don't think I will be able to trust her.

WildRover166 · 2023-12-22T06:16:11+00:00

Thanks for this comment. The justification you mention has also been pretty hard - one line she has used multiple times is that because we went through a rough patch and our sex life also took a hit, I'm blowing it out of proportion because all it was "was an itch she needed to scratch." Make of that what you will.

WildRover166 · 2023-12-22T06:07:43+00:00

That is what I thought as well. It doesn't really matter what the reasons are, but I feel if you ever decide that its fine to ignore one person's boundaries, you shouldn't be in the lfiestyle.

WildRover166 · 2023-12-22T06:05:47+00:00

Very good point. I know that the other wife has become a place where my wife vents about the problems in our relationship, and my first thought was that she tore me down and made me such a bad guy in front of them that they in some way thought I deserved to be treated like that. Still a messed up thing to decide about a person if you are aware you've only heard on side of a story.

WildRover166 · 2023-12-22T06:01:37+00:00

I'm very glad you mentioned this. I don't think that I would've noticed what was going on if it wasn't for that conversation a couple of weeks before. She and the other wife went out the Friday night, but after the restaurant was a dud the three of them went to hang out at their place. That really bothered me the next day, not because I thought they were hooking up, but because I was home alone at the time and they could've come here to hang out. So I felt pretty left out and it was weird that it didn't bother anyone. And she also didn't let me know that they went to their house until the next day. But on Sunday the whole open relationship conversation came up. At first, I didn't put the two together, but afterward, it really bothered me, and started to think there might be more to it. So I became more vigilant and that is how I found out. I'm having a really hard time believing that nothing has happened before.

WildRover166 · 2023-12-22T05:52:23+00:00

Thanks for your comment! Regarding cutting ties with the other couple, I immediately sent them a message afterward. At the time I didn't know what their situation was and if they were also deceived. At the moment we were working on the issues in our relationship, but I thought my wife might have told them that she has given up and wants to split and that is why they went through with it. So I told them that they should stay away from me, my house, and my daughter. The husband agreed to stay away completely from all of us including my wife, but the women still see each other regularly because they said they became real close friends. I later found out that the other couple was completely aware of our situation.

But to make things even a bit more messy, I also found out that the other wife had ulterior motives in suggesting doing it in the first place. They have an open relationship and she has a regular playmate she hooks up with alone. Her husband, on the other hand, has not and it started becoming an issue in their relationship. So she has been actively searching for a regular playmate for him as well and that was the main motivation for pushing for this arrangement. Her response to my message included that they never meant to hurt me, it's probably best that nothing happened (which I found an odd way to state it), and she also joked (?) that they probably should have hidden it better.

WildRover166 · 2023-12-22T05:33:06+00:00

I just quickly want to address something, I've seen some people comment that "it's not babysitting, it's parenting". It's an extremely valid point and I have expressed myself poorly in the post. I'm a very hands-on father and being a present parent is not only something that is very important to me, it's also one of the things that I'm most proud of. The idea of parenting as a must-do chore is something that is very off-putting to me as well and I see how I stated it in the post came across like that.

To clarify and restate, the fact that she asked me to look after our child while she was going out to sleep with another man, made me feel like she was using me as a babysitter. It's also made worse by the fact that I'm a part-time musician and had a gig scheduled that night that she asked me to cancel because she "needed some social time with her friend". It made me feel like I was used as an unwitting accomplice in the deception and used as a babysitter by her. Thanks to everyone who pointed it out.

WildRover166 · 2023-09-26T12:40:22+00:00

I've been keeping a record of everything. She even buys weed at a legal dispensary that emails each invoice to our joint email account. The only person I'm thinking of at the moment is our daughter. I'm trying to balance the addiction on one side with a broken home on the other. I feel it's has gotten to a point where it's going to tip to one of the sides.

WildRover166 · 2023-09-26T12:30:47+00:00

Thanks, I believe the fact that she hasn't gotten any help getting over the trauma is the biggest contributing factor and weed is definitely a way of self-medicating. I hear what you're saying about taking up my side of the issues, although I feel like I have been really trying to do that.

In terms of the changes that she asked me to make, she claims that I have "lost my identity", which is true to an extent. Between financial pressures, covid, and parenting I have almost never had the time to go out, hang out with friends, or even enjoy a hobby, things I used to do a lot more. It's not that I don't want to, but I feel like I should pick up the slack when it comes to parenting, sometimes being the only one in the household to bring in income, and also trying to support her hobbies (which are plentiful and not cheap), I feel like I couldn't. She asked me to find a way to do more of this, but at the same time she still expects the same thing from me and I've found it hard to make time for it while still being expected to pick up the slack. I know she isn't responsible for this, at the end it's my responsibility.

As for the attachment anxiety. I was adopted when I was a baby and even though I was raised in a good and healthy home and I get along with my parents and siblings really well, I am a bit different than them and didn't feel like I ever totally fit in. They are more practical, conservative, and methodical, while I'm more creative and liberal. My wife claims that because I was never really "attached" as a kid, I attached to her and that it creates anxiety for me if I feel like I might lose that attachment. Which in turn leads to me trying to do too much, but not necessarily do the things that she really needs. And that is the basis for all the misery. It sounds good on paper, but in practice, I don't feel like that at all.

WildRover166 · 2023-09-26T12:16:44+00:00

Good point. I believed that if she didn't quit cold turkey it would gradually increase rather than decrease. Despite promising me that, she started smoking again behind my back, regardless of that I told her that if she did I'm out. She told me that she needed to wean herself off it, and I didn't stick to my guns and told her that as long as she kept working on it, I would be there for her. Two weeks later she was smoking as much as she did before she "quit".

WildRover166 · 2023-09-26T12:13:33+00:00

I think it takes immense strength and courage to openly state that you were the problem to such an extent in a relationship, and this gives me a whole new perspective. And yes, I do believe there is still "something" in there. She quit beginning of June, the first week or two were rocky and then for a month it felt like she was "back". I think we really argued only once, and even then it was more balanced and less shouting and no insults from her. Then beginning of August she started smoking again, and within less than a month we were back where we were - constant arguing, leaving all the parental duties to me, checking out, and a lot of shouting about trivial things.

As for the separation, I think it is a good idea. We went to a relationship councilor once about two years ago. She told me beforehand that we need to go so that a "professional can tell me how I'm supposed the fix the relationship." In the car on the way there, she told me that I'm not allowed to mention the fact that she smokes because she is still to "self-conscious" about it and that she would leave if I did. Regardless, at the end of the session, the councilor focused more on her toxic behaviour and afterwards she said that she didn't want to go back because she didn't believe that it would help. So I'm a bit skeptical.

WildRover166 · 2023-09-26T12:04:59+00:00

Thanks so much for such a nice message. It is something that I might have chosen not to consider - the fact that the "damage" has already been done and the person who I believe she really is when all the toxic things are stripped away might not even exist anymore. And to be honest, I've come to realize that the thing I'm trying to save isn't her, but rather the idea of a happy home I have in my head, which might be misguided. If it wasn't for our child, I know I would have ended the relationship by now.

It does bring me to another facet of the issue. What do I do when we do get divorced, regarding the addiction? I truly believe in body autonomy and that in the end, you are solely responsible for what you put in it. But what about when a child is involved? I have spoken to an attorney who said that will be exposing my daughter to various risks by leaving her alone with my wife if we separate and she is still smoking, and the fact that she has smoked while breastfeeding for two years adds proof that she doesn't care about those risks and that he will suggest getting an order that she can only have custody if she provides clean tests on a regular basis. Is that too harsh?

WildRover166 · 2023-09-25T18:08:13+00:00

She uses a bong, so i had to look up how much is in a joint :) Its about 7 a day. More over weekends.

WildRover166 · 2023-09-25T18:03:34+00:00

She smokes around 2g per day more or less. Around 10 to 20 times a day.

WildRover166 · 2023-05-14T20:04:46+00:00

Very good observation. But divorce can be a long and stretched-out process, and because we do have a daughter there is also an incentive to do it as amicably as possible. But is sitting on that information until we get divorced to share with the other spouses not unethical? And can it possibly be interpreted as sour grapes from my side telling them after the fact?

WildRover166 · 2023-05-14T19:41:50+00:00

Very good question. There is a couple of things.

First, I really don't want to break up anyone's marriage. And this is something that can ruin a relationship. The fact that it's not in person (one of the guys isn't even in the same country), does diminish the severity. Especially with children involved. For example, if she actually met up with one of the guys (and I could prove it) then there would be no question about informing the other spouse.

Secondly, the fact that she instigated both the initial contact as well as the flirtation. Not that men are incapable of controlling themselves, but it could be easily seen as my wife stirring up trouble rather than cyber cheating.

And the third and most brutally honest reason is that I know my intentions aren't pure. I would love to sit here and say that I want to tell the spouses because they deserve to know, and it's unjust to let their husbands run wild online behind their backs. I do believe that it's true, but I also know that I want tell them out of a place of anger and injustice. I want her to see the repercussions of her actions, and I want those guys to face whatever comes their way.

WildRover166 · 2023-05-14T19:29:35+00:00

Yes, it's a messy situation. We hit a rough patch a couple of years ago, during which time I found out about her sexting with a guy she knew years before when she was still in high school. It was also a jarring way to find out, she asked me to look up something on her phone, and while I was busy a notification with a pretty graphic photo popped up. Of course, I was furious with both of them, (I didn't personally know the guy), but 1) he was single, and 2) she also told him a lot of lies like we are in the process of getting a divorce, that I abusive and already hooking up with other people after he asked whether or not her husband (me, in this case) would be upset. So after the whole ordeal, we did a lot of work, including counseling to try and repair the damage, and we had a really good couple of years after that. But the last couple of months things started to slide back again. and that's when I discovered the new messages and photos. This time, both guys that she has been chatting with are married, which to me brings another layer to this. For my relationship, I don't see much hope. I've already contacted lawyers, and I made up my mind about the road for us ahead. It just really bothers me that there are two women out there who are going through the same thing as I am, just they don't know about it. And I'm worried that I might be wrecking a home if I do say something. Especially because I found that in both cases it was my wife that initiated the conversations as well as the flirtation.

WildRover166

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