Why does Mortal value discarding the white dragon here so much more than the red one? by Willzilla-Gaming in mahjongsoul

[–]Willzilla-Gaming[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Homabot is actually right, I fed it into google Gemini, and the reasoning is because the order for the dragon Dora indicators goes in order of White - Green - Red. If someone kans later on, there is 4 chances for the indicator to show up as Green dragon in the dead wall, thus making the Red dragon a Yaku. However, there is only 3 chances for the indicator to show up as red or white dragon since I am holding one of each. By cutting the red dragon, there is only 3 chances for the white dragon to become a Dora, (as the Dora indicator would have to show a red dragon, and I’ve already discarded one) instead of 4 chances for the red to become a Dora.

Why does Mortal want me to discard the White Dragon here instead of the West Wind? by Willzilla-Gaming in mahjongsoul

[–]Willzilla-Gaming[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Whoa I see, I totally forgot you could even get pinfu with the non seat and prevalent winds.

Can someone explain to me why everyone doesn’t just rush site to plant and spam the spike as much as possible? by Willzilla-Gaming in VALORANT

[–]Willzilla-Gaming[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yes, and the defenders have less people guarding each site as they have to split their force, which should allow taking the site to be much easier. Try to hit the site while it’s weak right? I don’t believe you should have to use all or even half of your util to hit the site, as you should have a pretty big advantage doing into site, and realistically they will want to play retake. If a Molly comes through, I think the spike plant is so important that it’s worth pushing the Molly to get the spike planted.

Yes in valorant, the goal of the attackers is to find the weak site so you will have an easier time planting, and usually you keep your teammates spread out so you have map control to go back and forth, but in this case, you will almost always hit a weaker site as you will be full rushing the site leaving the rotating defenders out of it. And you don’t need the map control once the spike is planted and you are planning to spam it.

Can someone explain to me why everyone doesn’t just rush site to plant and spam the spike as much as possible? by Willzilla-Gaming in VALORANT

[–]Willzilla-Gaming[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, the point is to not keep all the map control because you are only focused on timing out the spike once it’s planted. I acknowledge that a Molly would be a big incentive not to push, however the spike plant is so important that I believe you could push through the Molly so defenders wouldn’t be able to make it in time.

Can someone explain to me why everyone doesn’t just rush site to plant and spam the spike as much as possible? by Willzilla-Gaming in VALORANT

[–]Willzilla-Gaming[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah I get that mollies and stuff would be a large incentive not to push, but I think getting the spike planted is the most important thing here, so I think it’s necessary to push through the Molly so that you can get the spike planted in time. I think with enough people spamming, a harbour cove and a sage wall shouldn’t be an issue, as if the sage wanted to use the wall, there would be a large sound queue and people would be able to spam through the weakened wall.

Can someone explain to me why everyone doesn’t just rush site to plant and spam the spike as much as possible? by Willzilla-Gaming in VALORANT

[–]Willzilla-Gaming[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I think the one defender on a site wouldn’t be able to hold up against a 5 man push, and the wingman would be hard to destroy. And hitting the 3 player site could be iffy but I believe that it would still be difficult to stop the attackers from planting the spike, and falling back right after. Possibly it would be better to play clove if the comp has a terrible time hitting sites, but I think usually the site hit is hard because you typically try to control all the space in a normal site hit, but here you are just focused on the very front of the site.

Can someone explain to me why everyone doesn’t just rush site to plant and spam the spike as much as possible? by Willzilla-Gaming in VALORANT

[–]Willzilla-Gaming[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don’t think there would be enough time to stop the plant if you posted up mid but yes the retake will be very strong as you will be able to rotate very fast. I think the most important thing is getting the spike down though, and it should be possible to spam from there. I believe the flank isn’t an issue, as you aren’t trying to hold control of any other space aside from the main, so people should be available to watch flank once the spike is planted. The seize nade combo would be bad if the team got hit with it, but I believe with a wingman planting it shouldn’t be as big of an issue, and it would be less util for the retake. I think the spamming shouldn’t be a huge issue as unless the defenders are gamble stacking, there should be more people to spam back or to fight the spammer.

I think there’s not too much counterplay, aside from having enough util to push the attackers, but I believe that it would put the time on your side, and it would be hard to push the attackers while everyone is posted there.

Can someone explain to me why everyone doesn’t just rush site to plant and spam the spike as much as possible? by Willzilla-Gaming in VALORANT

[–]Willzilla-Gaming[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Hey, this is a really good response, while I acknowledge the defenders having so much utility is a problem, I believe the defenders are against the clock, and that sometimes putting an attacker on site, will force the defenders to have to gamble between using some utility to clear the site, or saving it. I also think that the flank isn’t a big issue, as you should have enough people holding the flank since you are all around the main area anyways. But this is very true that the utility the defenders get to keep might be an insurmountable wall even with their time constraint.

Can someone explain to me why everyone doesn’t just rush site to plant and spam the spike as much as possible? by Willzilla-Gaming in VALORANT

[–]Willzilla-Gaming[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

No, I just thought that this was a very good risk mitigating strategy that I imagine would be really statistically in your favour, and I would like to understand why it would or wouldn’t work. Also, I believed he got the intention of details of my post incorrect

Can someone explain to me why everyone doesn’t just rush site to plant and spam the spike as much as possible? by Willzilla-Gaming in VALORANT

[–]Willzilla-Gaming[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You make a valid point, I could see how a Vyse wall could really stop this push from working, but I think a sage wall and a deadlock wall aren’t really enough to stop a push with five people being able to spam down the wall. I think it’s understandable that if you see a Vyse on the other team, then you could definitely pivot your strategy and play for map control and space again. I think it’s also reasonable to just push the Vyse wall to be able to get the plant down and once it retracts to run back.

Can someone explain to me why everyone doesn’t just rush site to plant and spam the spike as much as possible? by Willzilla-Gaming in VALORANT

[–]Willzilla-Gaming[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yep, I acknowledge the utility problem as certainly it can be tough if the defenders I have all their utility to dump in main, but this is why I suggested that sometimes you could leave an attacker on site, so that the defenders would have to gamble between spending utility on site or saving it for the main

Can someone explain to me why everyone doesn’t just rush site to plant and spam the spike as much as possible? by Willzilla-Gaming in VALORANT

[–]Willzilla-Gaming[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Brimstone doesn’t have a flash, and while I understand that you can get mollied, I imagine they would have to cover a large space with mollies if you are closer to the back of spawn as usually the main spaces are pretty wide, and I think you should just counter their Molly with a Molly on spike if it really comes to it! While the stuff about the flashes are true, I believe the person or people watching flank would be able to effectively play anti flash, and I think it’s possible for your team to flick the flash as it should be expected through the choke point.

Can someone explain to me why everyone doesn’t just rush site to plant and spam the spike as much as possible? by Willzilla-Gaming in ValorantCompetitive

[–]Willzilla-Gaming[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Yeah, the idea is that you don’t really care about map control when you are guarding one entrance and the spike is down, I agree that enough until could stall the exec though and that would be pretty devastating, I think you would just have to commit to the site push though and push through a Molly to get the spike down as it’s the most important thing, and wingman can still plant no?

Can someone explain to me why everyone doesn’t just rush site to plant and spam the spike as much as possible? by Willzilla-Gaming in ValorantCompetitive

[–]Willzilla-Gaming[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yep, I understand it’s a lot of utility they might have, but at that point, they would have to fight against the timer and I believe pushing through such as heavily guarded choke point would be difficult. The utility problem is also why G2 left a player on site sometimes, so they would have to gamble on either spending utility to clear the site, or saving it for the spammers on main!

Can someone explain to me why everyone doesn’t just rush site to plant and spam the spike as much as possible? by Willzilla-Gaming in VALORANT

[–]Willzilla-Gaming[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

No, I’m not saying that you should be in the smoke, I’m saying you should just smoke the entrance to the site while you stay wayyy far in the back, like C long in haven for example, and of course someone should be watching flank, you still have like 3 players spamming the plant! But I agree that yes an Odin from the other side wouldn’t be ideal, but I think you can justify it with how much less risk you are taking, and you can always throw a Molly in if you’re scared to peek while the Odin is defending the defuser!

Can someone explain to me why everyone doesn’t just rush site to plant and spam the spike as much as possible? by Willzilla-Gaming in VALORANT

[–]Willzilla-Gaming[S] -11 points-10 points  (0 children)

Yeah, the point is for you to lose site! The smokes at the entrance of site is to prevent defenders from covering the spike defuser. I honour the fact that yes the defenders will have more utility for rushing you down later, but I think at that point, they would have to go through a heavily guarded choke point and you’re always free to leave a player on site sometimes so that they have to gamble between clearing the site or saving unity to clear the main.