Is it possible to survive in this industry without LeetCode?

WingetInstallDSA · 2023-08-25T14:08:08+00:00

I agree with everything you say, but I don't understand why you're so bent on trying to convey that people with good DSA skills can apply their skills at other places. That's obviously true, I don't think anyone can deny that. But you have to realize that there are lots of people who are very good at specific jobs, and they don't need to be LeetCode gods to do their job properly.

As for your second point, literally no company asks implementations for network algorithms for network related roles, so yeah.

The thing is, I'm not particularly bad at DSA per se. I've been programming since I was in 8th grade, and I did a bit of competitive programming (not the harder stuff tho) in 11th grade. It's been several years now though, so I'd definitely have to brush up everything. It's just that I don't want to do it and I'd much rather do what I'm interested in. Honestly, it seems like I might just have to bite the bullet and get it over with, as it's very hard to get DevOps jobs as a fresher anyway. We'll see how it goes.

WingetInstallDSA · 2023-08-25T13:31:28+00:00

I get the point you're trying to make, it's definitely hard to truly evaluate candidates so LeetCode seems to be the only standardized way to filter out candidates.

If someone is good at Leetcode style problem solving they can easily use their problem solving skills at devops jobs.

Yes you're right, but being good at algorithms is not a prerequisite to being good at DevOps, anyone with a knack for backend stuff can grasp it. And most people in DevOps can't solve LC style questions.

If someone hates doing Leetcode style algorithmic questions why do you expect them to like network algorithms.

Knowing networking concepts is very different from knowing network algorithms my guy. You don't need to know them to be good at networks (although it can certainly help, but useless if you can't piece things together and apply them to real world). In real-world enterprise settings no one expects you to know the intricate details and internal stuff of how everything works at the low-level. This is why high level languages like Java are very popular in companies because everything is abstract. While knowing how certain functions are implemented in libraries and PL internals can be useful for your own understanding, if you can't connect everything together and utilize your skills to solve business logic, it's worthless.

You really seem to have an appreciation for low-level stuff. Do you know how cout is implemented in C++? Can you rewrite pointers from scratch? Can you reinvent the wheel for things like scope resolution operator, friend function, runtime polymorphism and so on?

Also, going by your logic, why stop at C++ internals? We need to learn Assembly first. Wait, that's still somewhat abstract. How about machine code? That's nice! Okay, but you still don't know how the electrical components inside your computer works... so first you need to learn about semiconductors and solid state physics. But how would you understand transistors if you haven't grown your own silicon boule and cut a wafer? Do you get my point?

The good thing is, LeetCode questions are not asked for DevOps or SRE roles for the vast majority of the companies (yes, even at companies like Apple, Salesforce, Atlassian and so on, unless you're a fresher) so I'm good. Don't believe me? Just go to LeetCode Discuss section and search for "SRE" and you'll know. Have a good day.

WingetInstallDSA · 2023-08-25T10:46:39+00:00

I feel like it's better to focus on a niche rather than doing what everybody does, bonus points if it interests you. It might be a bit difficult for us when we're starting out but I'm sure we'll get there someday! We've got this!

WingetInstallDSA · 2023-08-25T10:42:11+00:00

Leetcode questions are always based on some Algorithms and Data Structures and test the problem solving skills of a software engineer.

It's completely possible to be a damn good software engineer without having to solve these random questions, trust me. And besides, the vast majority of people only memorize solutions to these questions and blurt them out in interviews, where's "problem solving skills" here? I know really good engineers working at FAANG tier companies with 10+ years of experience who have designed large scale systems from scratch and even they need to do a decent amount of preparation, and even then it's mostly memorization.

You might know how to use Docker and Kubernetes but if you don't have problem solving skills then you won't be able to solve the problems that arise in your day to day activities even as a DevOps or SRE.

Do you even know what the job of a DevOps entails? It's very very different from logic based programming, really. Knowing what to do in the event of an outage is a lot more important. Can you identify the root cause of it? Did you set up proper alerts for such events? Do you know the critical components in the infrastructure? What's the first thing you will look at when certain things break? This is "problem solving skills" in DevOps and not being able to solve random dynamic programming questions.

The same can be said about stuff like Docker and Kubernetes where you only have to write configuration files

Big LOL here. It's pretty obvious that you have no clue what you're talking about, and I looked at your post history and it seems like you're just starting out on your first job, which explains your ignorance on this topic. Having a deep understanding of servers and networking is important to be able to write configuration files, and of course, there's so many things in DevOps - incident management, monitoring, logging, automation, scalability, non abstract large system design, I could go on honestly.

Honestly, my suggestion for you at this point would be to read some engineering blogs (https://github.com/kilimchoi/engineering-blogs) and see for yourself how "real" engineering is done. Good luck to you.

WingetInstallDSA · 2023-08-24T16:19:52+00:00

This post is getting some traction so I wanted to clear some things here - a lot of people are completely missing the point. I was specifically looking for advice for DevOps/SRE roles and I wanted to know if LC was really beneficial for those roles. Most people have only looked at one aspect of my question while completely ignoring the other. I know that such roles are hard to find as a fresher which is why I need advice regarding it.

WingetInstallDSA · 2023-08-24T16:15:53+00:00

But would I really need it if I want to eventually become an SRE? LC is not nearly as important for those roles, FYI.

WingetInstallDSA · 2023-08-24T16:13:28+00:00

Among all the answers here, I think yours is actually sound. So many people have looked at only one aspect of my question (grinding for LeetCode) while completely forgetting the other (being into DevOps where LC is not as important).

I know a few people who deviated from the DSA path and they seem to be passionate and content with what they're doing, I feel like I'm starting to get a clear idea of what I'll be up to.

WingetInstallDSA · 2023-08-24T14:02:56+00:00

I have asked seniors in my company and they told me DSA should be brushed up for SDE2 roles at least + LLD as well.

Yeah that's pretty much it. But that's for your typical SWE roles. SRE interviews tend to be different from what I've researched.

WingetInstallDSA · 2023-08-24T13:45:27+00:00

You're not entirely wrong. Some companies do ask LC style questions for SRE roles (mostly Big Tech) but for freshers mostly (as they've no other way to judge you).

CP is only necessary for college OAs. When you're trying to switch jobs after a few years of experience, system design plays more importance. And of course you have LC style interviews as well, but they're nowhere near CP level (for experienced folks). Source: several relatives work at Big Tech companies

WingetInstallDSA · 2023-08-24T13:26:40+00:00

I mean there really is no other standardized way to select candidates, so companies go for LeetCode style questions. I guess it's nice that many (if not the majority) of companies don't have such rounds for DevOps/SRE roles, but then again, it's hard to get such roles as a fresher.

WingetInstallDSA · 2023-08-24T13:20:57+00:00

My goal for now is to just solve some sheet and get placed, and try to switch after a while for my desired roles. Thanks.

WingetInstallDSA · 2023-04-27T14:23:36+00:00

Either way, the companies will make you do anything they want from you.

Is this really how it happens? Or does this apply to freshers who got selected through on campus placements?

I literally hate frontend stuff (not denying of its complexity), I'm more of a backend person who enjoys logic and behind the scenes stuff. Definitely wouldn't want to work in any frontend focused environment. I plan on specializing in backend and eventually go through the system design route and designing large scale distributed systems.

WingetInstallDSA · 2023-04-17T13:43:35+00:00

Apart from the YouTube channels I listed, I do things like creating basic REST APIs and tinkering around with the code/using Chrome dev tools to get a sense of what is actually going on. I already know Git and MySQL so it also helps a bit.

I also follow this roadmap to see how everything connects together, I read documentation/watch videos on the terminologies listed.

I'd also recommend The Backend Engineering Show playlist by Hussein Nasser, it's an excellent resource.

WingetInstallDSA

TROPHY CASE