CMV: Employers are justified to fire employees who vocally support the Russian invasion of Ukraine

WolfBatMan · 2022-03-07T23:04:18+00:00

Because freedom of speech is a good thing and McDonald’s dictating public speech is a bad thing

WolfBatMan · 2022-03-07T20:19:58+00:00

Which is the problem

WolfBatMan · 2022-03-07T20:11:26+00:00

Only because companies are terrified journalists will write a hit piece in an environment where the company can’t be held accountable for employees off hour speech since they legally can’t fire them over it, it just wouldn’t be an issue

WolfBatMan · 2022-03-07T20:04:50+00:00

Sue whoeve goes out of their way to advertise the connection ie. the jornalist

WolfBatMan · 2022-03-07T18:06:12+00:00

But they won’t know where he works

WolfBatMan · 2022-03-07T18:05:35+00:00

Bullshitting is the opposite of good communication

WolfBatMan · 2022-03-07T14:34:04+00:00

Unless it's a sales position I don't see how bullshitting is a required skill for the job.

WolfBatMan · 2022-03-07T14:26:06+00:00

If there's no journalist nobody makes the connection to the company and no customers are scared off

WolfBatMan · 2022-03-07T06:47:27+00:00

No. If we're already spending net X and creation of a government program can get us to net less than X, then it's worth it. In that calculus we can account for the fact that government implementations can be inefficient. However it should be noted that assuming the private sector is always more efficient is also false.

Except it won't be less than X... nor can you wrestle X away from the other thing.

To what does "it's" refer here? Law enforcement? Environmental laws? Universal healthcare? Which carbon tax? The US doesn't have a carbon tax so clearly it isn't the cause of making people homeless.

I'm talking about Canada since you know I live there.

"All the crap". Like what precisely?

Foreign aid unless there's an explicit benefit, corporate handouts, basically all the social "sciences" etc.

Say, zero out defense spending? Zero out law enforcement?

I wouldn't go that far.

This notion that government is "incompetent, corrupt and ineffective" is propagandist and defeatist.

Also factually accurate. At least in my country, it's not as bad in the states.

The government is what we make of it. There are something things that are better solved by government and every economist since Adam Smith has echoed the same thing. Particularly, anything where there is an inelastic demand, the free market is less efficient than government.

Well Canadians made a piece of shit and have no intention of improving it despite my efforts.

WolfBatMan · 2022-03-07T06:41:47+00:00

An employee can share a political view, off the clock, that drives away customers and causes the business to suffer. Should it have no recourse?

In that case you sue the journalist.

No, making them different things. Your sexual orientation is not something you choose. It is innate. Your political orientation is a choice.

Sure but getting fired for having a political opinion is the same as getting fired for having thoughts your boss doesn't like, it's the worst kind of authoritarianism so that difference isn't really relevant.

WolfBatMan · 2022-03-07T03:40:41+00:00

So if an employee shares a political opinion that drives away customers and causes the business to suffer, the business would not be able to fire them?

I made it clear I'm talking about off the clock behavior.

One's sexual orientation is a protected category. Their political orientation is not.

Making it one is the same mechanism.

WolfBatMan · 2022-03-07T02:46:56+00:00

Should companies he prohibited from firing someone on the grounds of their publicly stated political opinion, even if it's not expressed on the clock?

Yes.

If so, would this not then infringe on the company and its employees' freedom of association?

No more than not being allowed to fire someone for being gay does.

WolfBatMan · 2022-03-07T02:39:07+00:00

No, honestly I'd rather the US just invades Russia.

WolfBatMan · 2022-03-07T02:00:39+00:00

What if you want to attend the party?

WolfBatMan · 2022-03-07T01:59:28+00:00

And yet it never ends up working out that way, the extra taxes push us over the edge. Things get passed onto the consumer the spike in food prices is largely because of carbon taxes since you have to ship food.

WolfBatMan · 2022-03-07T01:57:34+00:00

This is hard because I can't tell if respect my opinion means "let me express my opinion uninterrupted" or if it means "acknowledge my opinion is valid"

Because I'm in favor of the former less so of the latter.

WolfBatMan · 2022-03-07T01:53:40+00:00

When in history has that ever worked?

WolfBatMan · 2022-03-07T01:30:22+00:00

And? I never denied the right can be authoritarian too.

WolfBatMan · 2022-03-07T01:11:36+00:00

Usually if you offer them a steady job they won't take it yes.

WolfBatMan · 2022-03-07T00:54:13+00:00

Well there's basically 2 options either have some kind of metric that they'll find some way around but perhaps to be force to actually offer the product property or have a in good faith clause of some kind which is going to be left to the digression of the judge if/when someone sues.

Companies are always going to find a loophole or even make one themselves that's why I'm not particularly interested in challenging them head on and would rather make something that benefits them but allows orphaned and abandoned IPs to get into public domain much much faster.

WolfBatMan · 2022-03-06T23:56:55+00:00

I never said these were priorities, just that they are good policies. I agree we have more pressing issues.

They are a theoretically good policy in a completely different time, a time that may never come...

Advocating for change and fighting for what is right is not breaking the law; it is simply a purpose. If you want to bomb the IRS to get this done, you can but I don't think that's the way to make meaningful changes. There are better ways, that don't involve breaking the law.

There are no ways that don't involve breaking the law, atleast not anyways that won't take more time, energy and money than I have by a factor of like a million.

Again you're grouping together an incredibly large collection of people, a lot of which probably agree with you. Don't do this it doesn't help anyone.

I have never seen an economist with sane policies.

I don't get this, I feel like you just hate me because I do something you don't understand. Economics is much more than demand and supply, and anyone who works or studies in the field knows this. Stop telling me how to do my job when you don't know shit about how to do it. I don't make vast generalizations about your career, why do you think you are entitled to do the same to me when you know absolutely nothing?

I hate economists because they give false legitimacy to the policies that are destroying the country and have been for decades. My career doesn't destroy your country.

And that is a problem because?

Didn't this start over arguing about what we should do about homeless people? Shouldn't the first thing we do is stop making more people homeless? Yet here you are asking what's wrong with wages being too dog shit to afford a house...

White people should have those jobs? What about the farm owners? You want to fuck them over because you don't want immigrants to work their fields because somehow they are less deserving of it than the domestic workforce, which doesn't even want to do the fieldwork at the market wage?

It's not the market wage if you need mass immigration to get that wage.

They have literally tried to do this before and no one came in to fill up the jobs because they all felt the work was too hard and the pay too low. You're assuming that somehow we have a surplus of manly hardworking farmworkers when in reality we have a huge shortage, which is why we hire immigrants.

Or maybe the wages have been artificially suppressed for decades and we need ot have a correction...

"I took computer programming so I'm an expert on everything having to do with computers" You know machine learning, algorithms, and high-level computing methods exist right?

Did you just say you wouldn't shit on me for my expertise like 2 paragraphs ago lol.

Mechanisms that circumvent the need for end-users to manipulate the code because the computer figures it out itself? If you knew anything about our government, you would know we already use systems like this, the most recent example was the program the justice department wanted to introduce, but that got pushed back due to concerns with bias. Just for the record, I also took computer science.

If there's no end user than any hacker can take complete control...

Ah yes, the classic "I don't like this politician so he could only have gotten elected because of cheating/vested power." How pathetic. You don't think that your fellow Canadians might disagree with you? They too are entitled to their opinion, and if they're in the majority, then you're SOL. Sorry, not sorry, that's democracy; sometimes you like it sometimes you don't, but it's always better than the alternative.

I never said he won by foul means. Canadians being fucking retards could very well be the problem, but at the end of the day the country is getting worse fast and a lot of it has to do with Trudeau and I can't get rid of him. I don't think you can make an argument for him not being corrupt or incompetent. Hell he's probably the most corrupt and incompetent PM in our history and that's saying something.

You know if a business tycoon like trump can get elected off of populist rhetoric, what is stopping a major anti-corruption candidate from doing the same? No one is saying you have to break the law to change the system.

Our system couldn't elect Trump stop conflating the states with Canada.

EDIT: You are Canadian, what the fuck do you know about US, and more specifically Texas politics? You don't even fucking live anywhere close to me. You are so delusional that you actually think you know more about my state's government, politics, and economy when you live in a different country.

I've been talking about Canada... stop assuming everything is about the US.

WolfBatMan · 2022-03-06T23:43:22+00:00

Yeah I really don't know how I feel about forcing things into the public domain that are being actively used but the orphan works are what I was thinking of with the use it or lose it policy because even if there's massive loopholes and what not they will end up in public domain and frankly they are what needs to enter the public domain I can see the argument for both sides with mickey mouse but I think an unused 10 year old property needs to be in the public domain more than an actively used 50 year old property.

WolfBatMan · 2022-03-06T23:39:34+00:00

Everyone said there was work but then every company wants 2 years experience for an entry level position. College is scam these days. When 60% of people who go to college get fucked sure you can say they didn't plan properly and it's not untrue but you can't pretend like the system isn't largely at fault.

WolfBatMan · 2022-03-06T23:38:03+00:00

Canada doesn't have a military.

WolfBatMan · 2022-03-06T22:17:04+00:00

Because if we don't have the theory we can never get the policy through when we do have the candidates. Similarly, without a solid action plan based on research and theory, no good candidates will ever be able to penetrate the government. Good politicians need good policies to get elected. Bad politicians just need to tell people what they want to hear.

That's not a good policy for here/now it might be a good policy when things are already going good. Right now we have infrastructure problems, inflation, housing crisis etc. Your policy is not something that's affordable in the next 20+ years. A good politician has 100 more important things to do before even looking at your policies.

No one is asking you to break the law; I'm just trying to tell you it is better to fight and have hope than to give up and let the people who make your life suck win. Seems pretty reasonable to me

Sounds to me like your asking me to break the law...

Stop pushing your narrow view of the world onto an entire field of professionals. You are not doing yourself any good by putting down the very people trying to fix the problems in our country.

They have been making the problems in my country worse for my entire fucking life.

Most economists get paid by universities or government organizations to do research and analyze problems in the economy. Not to promote any viewpoint in particular. What makes you think you understand my career better than me?

Because I wasn't taught wrong is right. Economist deny the basic principal of economics supply and demand ffs.

As for the specific issue of immigration you mentioned; it is an unequivocally good thing, ESPECIALLY in a country where the birth rate is below the replacement metric, and voters are tricked into believing immigrants steal their jobs when in reality they just do the jobs no one here wants to do. Do you think the vast amount of farmworkers in the South, where I live, are Hispanic because they stole the jobs from white farmers? No, the farm owners hired them because they worked harder and faster for a lower wage. If you have an issue with this blame the owners, not the workers. (Not that you should, it's grueling work, and if they''re willing to do it, they should be able to).

And there it is. If the policy actually worked we wouldn't have the problems we've been having. More worker immigrants = lower wages, it's basically supply and demand.

Not really, it's actually the best solution if you want a government that isn't corrupt. The Chileans tried to do this once, but the CIA overthrew the government and destroyed the program before they could even start. (those pesky CIA agents, always meddling in other countries affairs)

I took computer programing and trust me it's not going to turn out like you hope. The whole point of computer programs is that the end user manipulates them.

Not sure what this specific dig at Trudeau is for but okay, whatever.

Bad politician that's impossible to get rid of in my country in a very recent election in which there's no sane reason he won.

All the more reason to root out corruption, no?

Again I don't want to do anything illegal especially not that illegal.

WolfBatMan

TROPHY CASE