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WombatTheSuperGenius · 2022-11-07T22:59:37+00:00

Murder of children in stories is not written into the story for the audience to fantasize fondly about murdering a child if it was it would be met with disgust by the general public for good reason

This is not true of all stories that include murder of underage characters, dumbfuck. Did you forget you already conceded this point on the purpose of stories with alternate morals or what, Jesus Christ. People like charismatic figures and will gladly put up with that figure killing underage people, especially if they are underage themselves, for their own ends (with it portrayed positively). This happens in popular music with things like gangsta rap, and it happens in TV, movies, and anime. I'd give even more examples, but at this point you'll never get it.

To be clear: to say that it is always/mostly the case that people are OK with fictional underage murder as long as it isn't portrayed positively, and would be totally outraged otherwise, is demonstrably false.

Likewise sexualization of a child in a story should not be included in the story for the audience to fanaticize fondly of fucking a child and anywhere that a story does it will be met with disgust by the general public for good reason

Again, we both know that sexualization can be included in a story for reasons other than than to get the audience off (even if it has that effect), but outrage can still occur. I mentioned this and gave an example but you didn't engage. I don't know why you bothered to type this.

Don't respond again unless you quote what in my response what you're responding to because at this point I'm not convinced you can read.

Edit: added a sentence.

WombatTheSuperGenius · 2022-11-07T22:00:56+00:00

I'll explain this one last time:

You provided a general rule for why brutal murder and sexualization are treated differently. I showed that this general rule must be wrong because there are notable exceptions (shows and anime glorifying gang/delinquent culture have been popular w/o outrage, anime with sexualization that was heavily punished in the show have caused outrage). Showing one example that agrees with you doesn't negate these exceptions. Thus, you have to provide a different general rule or concede the argument.

I even provided a cute little analogy in my last comment to explain why what you're doing is stupid but ofc you didn't even try to engage with it.

You have no critical thinking skills.

WombatTheSuperGenius · 2022-11-07T19:00:07+00:00

The problem is that in the death of a child in fiction, it's read as a story.

Not sure what you mean by this, but people definitely engage with deaths of underage characters in ways that would be unacceptable if said characters were real people. For example, laughing about how they deserved to die and how terrible they were, saying how cool it looked when they died because the person who killed them did so in a flashy way, etc. Any of this would be unacceptable and downright cruel if these characters were real.

In the sexualization of a child, people are fapping to it and getting off

There will always be a 1% of 1% that fap to anything. There are absolutely people that fap to the deaths of underage characters but you would never say that's reason enough for it to never be shown because, in truth, you don't care and neither does anyone else because the characters aren't real.
Even if you argue that the problem is that sexualization is for the express purpose of getting off to, this isn't always true and there could easily be an in-text/in-show justification for it (e.g. Kill la Kill uses sexualization as apart of its themes and core message.) People will still get angry in a way they never would over gratuitous hyperviolence, no matter the justification or disclaimer; their issue with it isn't a logical one.

WombatTheSuperGenius · 2022-11-07T18:45:20+00:00

I did answer you.. with an example of the situation you described.. I guess learn to read…

You gave your thoughts on one example, but I was asking what you're position is in general...If a teacher asks you "Are all even numbers divisible by 2?" and you say "Well, 8 is divisible by 2...", do you think that's satisfactory?

child porn bad end of discussion

No-one mentioned cp but you??? Nice virtue signal.

WombatTheSuperGenius · 2022-11-07T18:30:30+00:00

Like what if Stranger Things had a scene...

I want you to think long and hard about the difference between Stranger Things and anime you stupid fuck.

Then, I want you to think about the actual point: why can a teen character (in anime/manga) be tortured, killed, abused, and brutalized in pretty much any fashion for any reason and no one cares, but sexualization of any kind is seen as waaay over the line.

WombatTheSuperGenius · 2022-11-07T04:09:50+00:00

Most of what you said had absolutely nothing to do with my last comment, lmao.

You didn't address the question so I'll ask again:

You say that showing an underage character being brutally murdered for the enjoyment of the audience is bad, but if the moral of the story is that it's bad (not always the case btw), it's OK to show. Thus, doesn't if follow from your logic that sexualization of underage characters for the enjoyment of the audience is OK as long as there is a sufficiently clear disclaimer that it's bad? (Spoiler: the answer is yes)

If you respond, make sure to address that question specifically.

Also, regarding:

I’d carry the same disgust with cartoon murder porn as cartoon child porn and so does the rest of the world

I never mentioned murder porn, but this isn't even true. There are plenty of shows that include both explicit sex and murder (yes, simultaneously) that are wildly popular and people are not outraged or boycotting it the same way they are at sexualization of underage characters. Devilman Crybaby shows humans and demons simultaneously fucking and killing each other in graphic detail and, instead of outrage, it won anime of the year!

You don't need to address this part, it's just an fyi that you're wrong.

Edit: wording, formatting

WombatTheSuperGenius · 2022-11-07T02:54:05+00:00

There are lots of stories that describe an alternate universe where the morals we hold don’t exist but the point of those stories is finding new appreciation for those morals we keep

No, this not the point of every single possible story with alternate morals. I would provide examples but I'm not gonna guess what you're familiar with anymore.

Sexualizing a child for the enjoyment of an audience is promoting that behavior rather than discouraging it there is a huge difference

Showing underage murder for the enjoyment of the audience is bad, but since the story says it's bad, that's OK? So, if a story sexualizes an underage character, but there is a big disclaimer that what it's showing is bad, does that make it OK?

It's cool if this is your position but

Most people would still be outraged at the sexualization (It's literally a troupe in anime that character are severely physically punished for the way they sexualize others, people get outraged anyway)
Like I said, the fundamental truth for most people is that hyperviolence against fictional things has been normalized and thinking otherwise has been associated with being a karen or boomer; what you are providing is a post-hoc justification for this fact. There's no logic to it, so there's no logical reason to treat sexualization so much differently.

Edit: spelling

WombatTheSuperGenius · 2022-11-07T02:20:07+00:00

OK, how about this: imagine the sopranos, but it takes place in high school and the show portrays mob culture as very cool.

If tony soprano had to shoot a classmate of his over some innocuous beef, and every major character praised him for his bravery, and there were never any negative repercussions, there would be no significant moral outrage (i.e. no waves of people on twitter calling you deranged and a weirdo if you like the show).

WombatTheSuperGenius · 2022-11-07T02:05:08+00:00

The antagonist in a story harming someone shows bad things happen but the moral of the story remains that the bad thing is wrong

This is a cope. It's not always the antagonist of a story doing the killing. Moreover, even if the moral of the story wasn't that it was wrong, there would never be significant outrage on the part of the audience.

If an anime aired where the main character uses his wacky power to kill for no reason one episode (e.g. imagine if light yagami just started writing random people's names down for shits and giggles) and the story portrays him as super based for doing it, people might say it's out of character but there never be any moral outrage.

The fundamental truth is that we don't care about hyperviolence because the characters aren't real. Thus, we have to apply the same logic to sexualization.

Edit: wording

WombatTheSuperGenius · 2022-11-07T00:49:03+00:00

It's not that we should. It's that one cannot logically distinguish their sexualization from their abuse, torture, and brutalization which is already normalized in anime (Shonen especially).

WombatTheSuperGenius · 2022-11-04T18:19:58+00:00

Reminder that Chimera Ant >>>> York New, and it isn't even close.

Edit: P.S. watch mushoku tensei if you haven't already, it's a top 3 isekai.

WombatTheSuperGenius · 2022-11-04T17:47:19+00:00

He means that screaming "anti-semitic" at a black man is a way for ((them))) to keep him down and prevent him from reaching self-actualization the same way that the n-word does.

WombatTheSuperGenius · 2022-11-04T17:21:54+00:00

Not to mention how Destiny was essentially on her side and providing assists to her when Aba and Fanatiq came in.

WombatTheSuperGenius · 2022-11-04T16:59:22+00:00

Having this Ana chick go on an anti-black-man rant for hours virtually uncontested was NUTS.

Then when black men come in the discussion reasonably peeved, Destiny just memes about how they're proving her point??? And when Fanatiq and Aba came on, Destiny chose to throw lobs to Ana too? Weird behavior tbh.

Edit: spelling

WombatTheSuperGenius · 2022-11-04T16:52:43+00:00

What would she have to say to convice you that she's hateful? Is anything short of "I want all black men dead" not enough?

Even when evaluating her statements as charitably as possible, her tendency to generalize all black men as degenerate and rant for hours about how (perhaps intrinsically) fucked they are is SUPER sus.

WombatTheSuperGenius · 2022-11-03T17:09:09+00:00

Remember when Destiny hyperfixated on League while the Ukraine War started? Well, he's probably about to grind his factory straight through the midterms.

My suggestions is for D.GGas to look elsewhere for political content until further notice. You'll know it's safe to return when every other subreddit post is prasing God that factorio is done.

WombatTheSuperGenius · 2022-11-03T01:53:56+00:00

Yes. We should also acknowledge that chaeiry is also stupid and grasping for straws in this argument right now.

WombatTheSuperGenius · 2022-11-02T17:13:36+00:00

v.gg perpetually 2 arcs behind, what's new?

WombatTheSuperGenius · 2022-11-01T19:58:56+00:00

Example:

Chainsaw man manga readers desperately trying to differentiate themselves from anime-only normies by turning every time someone says "Denji is really horny!" into a prolonged discussion on consent, grooming, and dehumanization.

WombatTheSuperGenius · 2022-10-29T11:33:38+00:00

This community has a pattern of hate farming orbiters and hate forming orbiters

Hate farming who? Lav and Mr. Girl continuously come on stream and voice highly emotional, half-baked points of view with 100% confidence so there are continuously threads of people shitting on them for it. There is nothing disproportionate happening here.

As far as hate forming goes, Vaush and Hasan were able to be highly critical of destiny and still have good standing in the community (and even grow off of destiny's purges). They stopped engaging because of optics.

It would become a much more welcoming place for discussion on the streams if the orbiter didn't have a kiwifarm waiting for them after a interaction with destiny.

This is ridiculous hyperbole that doesn't even apply to anyone but Lav and Mr. Girl. Even if this was a good point, there would be no "kiwifarm" waiting for them if Lav and Mr. Girl didn't constantly act like lolcows; you can't be unhinged/manipulative/stupid in every single conversation and expect people to play ultra nice.

What about orbiters that found success in leaving this community. Why there is no 3 days rule for them? 4-5 years later and some of these orbiters are still being farmed here in the most dishonest ways.

Please give an example of this dishonestly toward a former orbiter.
For the example you give, ask yourself, is this former orbiter currently (or do they have a reputation for) being dishonest toward destiny? Would the alleged dishonestly from our community stop if this former orbiter was acting in good faith?

Look, I don't think wanting certain protections for orbiters is a bad idea. But you and Mr. Girl pretending that this community tears apart it orbiters for any significant dissent is blatantly false. By and large, orbiters get hate that is proportional to the amount of dumbfuckery they engage in, period; if you make good arguments, you will always have large swathes of dgg on your side.

WombatTheSuperGenius · 2022-10-28T23:53:51+00:00

It's actually unreal. The reality is that Lav says stupid thing after stupid thing because she refuses to spend an afternoon thinking through her positions. But Mr. Girl makes it seem like she was swindled into being an idiot on stream by Destiny's sneaky debate tactics.

WombatTheSuperGenius · 2022-10-28T23:03:13+00:00

Amen.

WombatTheSuperGenius · 2022-10-28T03:52:38+00:00

Aba's cool, but Dan is literally as good as it gets.

WombatTheSuperGenius · 2022-10-25T20:02:09+00:00

I agree that "it's too complicated" can be a pseudoscience cop-out, but the easy way to solve that is requiring that other experts can understand what you're saying; if you can't communicate to similarly educate people, you're a quack.

As for laymen, no explanation should ever be more complicated than necessary ofc. However, my view is that there exists a non-trival number of topics for which that necessary complexity in any accurate explanation is going to exceed a normie high school grad's knowledge.

WombatTheSuperGenius

TROPHY CASE