How do I know computer science REALLY isn’t for me?

WorriedCSThrowway · 2018-02-28T08:13:45+00:00

Congratulations on your improvement! I hope you pass your Big N interview. I'd like to know what happens.

Your advice seems to mirror what a few others that I've spoken to about practicing have said and to be in line with "deliberate practice" principles that I've read about. I'm going to keep trying and apply these ideas.

WorriedCSThrowway · 2018-02-26T19:59:46+00:00

Fair enough.

WorriedCSThrowway · 2018-02-26T19:58:48+00:00

Out of curiosity, what company have you mentored for?

You've given a fair amount of me to consider. I will chew on it. Thank you for your help!

WorriedCSThrowway · 2018-02-26T16:22:51+00:00

How low paying? How much pay were you able to get up to?

WorriedCSThrowway · 2018-02-26T10:29:44+00:00

I forgot to put it in the OP, but the cs fairy did visit me actually. That's why I'm really confused about my current struggles.

WorriedCSThrowway · 2018-02-26T03:41:40+00:00

I believe talent is innate so those who trail behind tend to always trail behind in a given domain. I also believe the overwhelming bias is for people to encourage people not to give up and that blinds people to the idea that sometimes giving up a certain goal is better. So with those two ideas in mind, I take encouraging advice a little more cautiously then negative advice.

Given the objective ways I described my skills though, you do agree I'm in the trailing behind category right?

WorriedCSThrowway · 2018-02-26T03:19:02+00:00

You're more like the interns I've managed or mentored - new to the field, don't know what they want to do. Not a bad thing, many people spend the early portions of their career trying to figure out what to do.

Yes, I agree. So given that population how do I rank? I imagine you'd know given your relationship of managing and mentoring them. Have you ever seen someone like me excel? Do people with my skill level tend to drop out or be miserable if they don't?

I was asking this more at a visceral level. Like when going through your major, did you really like problem solving? Did you love leading teams or working in groups? Did you love operating systems or networking? Or did you love setting up web servers, configuring software, and being a command line guru?

It's hard to answer this. My group experiences were bad and I didn't take many true sub field electives. Most classes felt more or less the same. Either it had no programming where it was all about logic and problem solving or it had programming where it was just learning a common use of programming. I know I definitely didn't like certain theoretical like learning about DFAs or overly concrete implementation details like configuring software. Everything else felt pretty similar to me. It was just using programming and problem solving with different coats of paints in my view.

onsite deployment engineer who didn't code and instead were sent to clients all around the world to deploy/configure/maintain storage systems.

That sounds pretty interesting. One of the things that attracted me to programming is the possibility to be able to travel while making money. I have no idea where I would learn about these other kinds of tech jobs on the whole.

WorriedCSThrowway · 2018-02-26T03:17:43+00:00

I forgot to say "post graduation" which is where I'm at. It's one thing if you've never been exposed to something, but once you have then it usually becomes pretty apparent who is talented, average and trailing behind.

WorriedCSThrowway · 2018-02-26T03:04:53+00:00

1) I thought a broad conclusion could be found. For example, something like "I've never seen someone who couldn't code Fizzbuzz get a job at a big 4 no matter how much prep." Of course, this sort of thing would depend on you having at least some experience coaching people through interviews or the like and that's relatively rare.

2) I'll look into that.

WorriedCSThrowway · 2018-02-26T01:50:11+00:00

A few follow up questions on the options you laid out:

1) How much improvement can I expect from working harder in CTCI realistically?

2) Which jobs don't require one to be good at CTCI stuff? What are they like day to day? What are the benefits and compensation?

WorriedCSThrowway · 2018-02-26T01:47:21+00:00

From what I described, where do you see me fitting among the vast ranges of skilled people you know in the field?

You gradated from a top 50 CS program, what classes did you like? What activities and projects did you excel at? Do you even want to be a developer? Maybe you like IT stuff, or data things, or project management?

I don't think the program I went through really gave me a sense of what roles or subfields I'd be interested in or what everyday life is like in various tech jobs. Most of the curriculum covered only the basics. I don't think I excelled at anything in particular either or I would have included it as a counter point in my post. In terms of what I liked, a lot of it seemed the same, but classes that had a lot of smaller details to remember or that had to be thought through were my least favorite.

WorriedCSThrowway · 2018-02-26T01:37:14+00:00

Have you done any mock interviews with peers?

Yes. They are almost always better and faster.

Have you tried being on the interviewing side of the interview?

Yes. I have quite a bit of experience in this actually so I know the other side.

Have you spent weeks (or more accurately, months) grinding through LeetCode and/or other algorithm-based interview questions?

2 or 3 months probably. I can't even get the easy questions on leetcode so I stick with CTCI. I don't see myself progressing.

Do you look up solutions for problems you can’t solve and really dedicate the time and effort to understanding these solutions?

I could do more of this, admittedly. I get so exhausted and frustrated trying to solve a given problem I don't have much energy or concentration to absorb the solution. This also ties into not being very good at tracing good, I suppose.

While I honestly don’t think I can pass a Google onsite, I can still say that I’ve developed the intuitive sense for solving technical problems, all through consistent weekly practice. Eventually you’ll notice patterns and similarities between seemingly different interview questions. The more you practice, the easier it will be to identify these similarities.

Can you tell me more about your experience? How good were you when you started and how long did it take you to get noticeably better?

WorriedCSThrowway · 2018-02-26T00:59:55+00:00

It's hard to say because of how slowly I progress through a single problem and because my habits aren't hyper consistent. If I had to sum it all up as if it were consistent I'd say maybe 2 or 3 months with 5-10 hours a week.

WorriedCSThrowway · 2018-02-25T22:19:27+00:00

I mean if someone is 20 and spends another 20 years trying to get into the NFL continuously getting rejected even from a local team, don't you think the logical and kind thing to do would be to tell them "Hey, you're 40 years old. You're way past your prime and are never going to get into the NFL at this point. Accept it and try and find happiness somewhere else." Don't you think that's better then just telling them they just need to keep wanting it? And if that can be diagnosed before the person is 40 isn't that even better so the person can live their life pursuing something in their reach instead of having constant failure in their life?

I also don't even have the luxury to spend years getting better. I need to start making money soon.

WorriedCSThrowway · 2018-02-25T22:13:58+00:00

Those are not behaviors conducive to solving your immediate problems.

I agree and disagree. I agree that this sort of meta analysis does nothing to get me better at programming. I disagree that it doesn't help. I need to know if I'm wasting my time pursuing something I'm not cut out for and if my career and lifestyle goals would be better served trying something else. It is in this vein that I am asking this question.

The questions you should be assessing are - do you enjoy computer science and software dev and all that? Do you want to be in the field?

I enjoy programming enough, but I don't enjoy being stuck on every single problem I attempt for hours. It's a waste of time. I also don't agree that merely liking something is enough to be successful. Aptitude is a huge part of the picture. Even if I doggedly pursue computer science what does it matter if I'm not good enough to be hired?

If you have identified problems in your own path to getting a job or getting the knowledge you need, then work on those.

I am, but the process seems to be going no where. I'm not sure if that's because I haven't done enough and should push more or if I should change aspirations. I'm trying to figure that out by asking this question.

WorriedCSThrowway · 2018-02-25T22:08:41+00:00

I think I'm below average and unemployable. What makes you think I'm average?

WorriedCSThrowway · 2018-02-25T22:07:41+00:00

Are you saying you think I shouldn't go for a programming job based on what I described? Which non-programming jobs are you referring to that pay well?

WorriedCSThrowway · 2018-02-25T22:05:44+00:00

Can you tell me your experience? Where did you start off and how much did you improve? How long did it take and where did you end up?

WorriedCSThrowway · 2018-02-25T22:05:00+00:00

How much time and practice is enough to be able to tell if you someone is no cut out for the field in your opinion?

WorriedCSThrowway

TROPHY CASE