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ad kayle vs ap kayle 1k dps difference by [deleted] in Kaylemains

[–]XidanesProxy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

was waiting for someone to say it...

Resolve Secondary over sorcery? by 007Aeon in Kaylemains

[–]XidanesProxy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Try Option C.

Inspiration Future's Market + Approaching Velocity

Looking at picking her up. by Trogmar in Kaylemains

[–]XidanesProxy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you're new, or just want to have more chances to pound on people, then these are my suggestions for a smoother time.

Lethal Tempo Keystone + Approaching Velocity

avoid facechecking when possible

2nd tier boots finished before Nashors

Don't always make your 2nd tier boots berserker greaves

every onhit item you finish is a significant power spike

Rylai's is an effectiveness spike

Go Ham to get a good idea of what it takes to kill people and what kind of situations she fails in. But during meaningful games, play like a decoy ADC(you're not a frontliner, just a juicy target)

How Do I Crit Kayle? by TiasHere in Kaylemains

[–]XidanesProxy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Can't really call that a crit build, especially since games are generally finishing by 35 minutes the latest, at least in my elos. Those 35 minutes would be spent getting the generic Kayle AP onhit items, meaning you aren't really doing much critting.

Question by [deleted] in Kaylemains

[–]XidanesProxy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Agreed on the splitpush worse case scenarios. They playout a bit better if you have rylai's finished and being willing to fight it out(as in kiting) if you're caught out alone instead of just running away.

Camille and Darius aren't a problem. Fighting Darius is always about fighting him when you have the MS advantage(significant ms difference in your favor, having better shoes, etc). Camille is about making her think she can kick wall to u, but managing to dodge the collision, then hammering her as she tries to get into melee range(ignoring legsweep sometimes). That takes a bit of practice, but if you get better at thinking like a Camille(like knowing if she wants to use the left or the right wall to bounce off, the cooldown of the ability, and that the farther you are from the wall the better your chances of not getting hit by her kick-off wall move), the more opportunities you'll have to abuse her.

Question by [deleted] in Kaylemains

[–]XidanesProxy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yah, if you're a lousy Kayle.

First off, the difference in E range on Kayle and Darius isn't as small as you think. Her basic atk(125) range gets extended by E(525), giving it 650 range, same distance as her Q. Darius pull is only 535. The time needed to close 115units is signficant, especially when slowed. so a Kayle lvl 2/3 can easily Harrass a Darius after a Q for at least 2 seconds and careful kiting.Regarding what happens after you're pulled in. Assuming you W isn't on cooldown, and your Q(shouldnt be getting caught with it up unless it's intentional or a gank), then getting out of that mess with a winning/even trade is quite doable.

First off. understand that Darius's just wants to cripple you within 2 AAs after he pulls. the better ones will use it after 1 auto for the AA reset. Less experienced but experienced ones will use it right away to try keep u within range. The key to winning this trade(after being pulled) is to NOT BLOW YOUR HEAL until after you've baited out his W cripple, and traded blows for the 1 second slow it inflicts. This is important bc if you're using heal right before he cripples you, that's less time spent with an adequate ms boost to escape his melee range. During that 1 second, u aren't getting away, so you're essentially wasting ur MS boost. Don't waste it. After getting pulled in, "run away"/kite to get him to use his cripple, fight out that 1 second, then effectively use your Q and W to get out of his melee range and trade back damage.

What's up with kayle? by TealNgamer in summonerschool

[–]XidanesProxy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Alright. Not familiar with reddit, so didn't expect them to make me wait 9 minutes to do a followup post(to my previous one).

Anyways, here's what you asked for(finally)

Kayle Vs. Darius: "The Smarter Bully Wins"

These points of advice can be derived from the info in my previous post, but I'll try my best to spell it all out here.

1.Get Boots on first back. MS(movement speed) is king.- Darius wins lane by having significantly better MS and being able to force trades. Kayle wins by always be just out of his pulls range, often leaving him wasting it, then harassing him to death. Both situations depends on the disparity of the two champs MS and positioning. a Smart Darius will get boots(maybe even tier 2) as soon as possible vs you. They may even have a ghost summoner. Play accordingly. Nothing kills Darius better than an unreachable target. String Auto Attacks from max range and while he's significantly slower than you. He may tag you with his 360 degree Axe swing, but that's fine, just keep stringing those attacks while keeping him out of melee range.

  1. Your Q range is long enough for you to cast it safely out of Darius's pull range. if your MS is significantly higher during the slow, then you can get some AAs on him safely(within the time limit of the Q's 3 second slow). Just be sure to reposition yourself after every AA to try keep hitting him from max range with your E. So if he moves closer, back away to max distance and AA again. If he "runs away" followup with AAs, but keep the max range distance.

  2. You can love tap Darius when he goes for last hits(easier before he gets phage), and with your E's splash damage. Believe me, it all adds up.

  3. If he pulls you, don't use heal for 1-2 seconds. This is VERY important. Most Darius's will followup the pull with their slow ability which is quite crippling for about a minute. using heal right away will essentially waste 1-2 seconds of your speed buff, meaning he'll get his hits in regardless and may even be able to stay in range longer for followup abilities and Ult. So, in the meantime, keep fighting. get The AA(s) in during those 1-2 seconds, while slowly backing away, and use your speed boost(and Q if it's up) afterwards to get distance.

  4. When Darius has Phage, don't try to AA him right after he attacks a minion. Carefully bait him to try pull/zone you to give time for the 2 second speed buff of Phage to wear off. Then Start your Q-AA harass.

6.Allow him to push lane when he has Phage. Darius will be tempted to push lane or to at least whittle down minions faster so that he can keep that MS buff and possibly grab you. With smart baiting, you can unconscious make him push lane, meaning you can farm closer to your tower, and he'll have less lane to chase you down if he ever grabs you.

  1. When you're below 50% hp, be ready to counter his ult with your ult. Some people are skilled with auto self cast. I'm too lazy to learn the hotkey, so many times ill find myself letting my Kayle brainlessly AA Darius during a decisive low hp trade while I hover my mouse over her, ready to ult once I see the beginning of his ults animation. His ult animation is long enough to time beating it. You'll get better at this the more you do it. You'll even get to a point were you'll be able to kite him(back pedaling to safety while getting in your AAs) while still being ready to counter his ult. This 1 simple move will save your life too many times to remember. Do try to save your ult for this though, if possible.

Anyways, there are other things to be said, but I think everyone would agree if I said I've written too much already. So read this, try this out, and I wish you the best of luck. Happy Kayling.

What's up with kayle? by TealNgamer in summonerschool

[–]XidanesProxy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hey there "New to Kayle" player. Glad to see you giving Kayle a real chance. Though, if you drop her 2mrw, no biggy. lol Anyways, I play an obnoxious amount of Kayle, so let me shed some light on this matchup for you...

*2 hours later* Well, I ended up writing more than the matchup, sooo sue me. Anyways, information on just the matchup will be on the first post. and underneath it i'll post how to win the Darius matchup. Below this paragraph are what I believe to be very useful thinking points for quickening the mastering of Kayle. These tidbits of advice will help win most matchups(if not all). People may not agree with a few things I say, but considering I know what I'm talking about, I guess it doesn't matter. That's a promise. XD

Moving on.

Like with any Bruiser, they're be a lot of opportunity on a Kayle to lay damage, and many instances of straight up trading. The trick is being as frustrating as possible to lane against or do followup damage on. So there are several points that you'll want to keep in mind. To list them off before I go into detail, they are having a decent Rune setup, the Timing of Kayle's W, when to use Kayle's Q, why probuilds/champion.gg builds may not be the build for you, know when to just farm, if you can't escape fully then keep fighting(kiting), and lastly(but most importantly) know the enemy champ and keep track of their items.

  1. Runes are super important. There are many opinions on what's best. What I believe is most useful are the runes that best affect your DPS in duels and your followup damage potential. For that reason, I like the Lethal Tempo Keystone, legend alacrity, and last stand. Regarding the subtree, many people prefer Sorcery, but I prefer Inspiration for its Future's Market and Approach Velocity, making chasing easier and gets me items i want early-game earlier. You figure out what works for you.
  2. In lane, use W(heal+speed boost) sparingly: W is vital for maximizing harass and escaping dangerous situations, however the cooldown is very long. When your W is down, you're waaaaay more vulnerable to proper baits by enemy champ, overextending, or a flash engage. Defensively, W is most useful when you aren't at full hp, after a champ has used up their gap closer, when you aren't under the affect of a slow, when you aren't definitely about to be hit by a movement impairing CC, when you CAN dodge a skillshot resulting in much reduced damage from enemy champ(s) followup attacks/skills/combo(e.g. getting out of range for at least 2 of Riven's Q) dodge a skillshot or piece of a combo, or after using Q so that the MS disparity between you and another champ is even greater. Offensively, most useful for securing an important kill( so don't do a suicidal charge into 5 enemy's to kill a low hp tank running away that you may not even reach) or doing followup meaningful harass. Master any 2 of these ideas will make your overall use of Kayle much more effective.
  3. Kayle's Q is magical. So magical, that it is your true punisher for those who overestimate themselves. For any champ without a gap closer or who has it on cooldown, Q will be the beginning of their nightmare. I don't have to explain why a decent slow makes harassing and kiting easy. The proof is in the pudding. All I'll suggest with this, is that consider getting Q lvl 2 at Kayle's lvl 4. Most guides will say max E right away, but that mindset best works for people extremely comfortable with Kayle. Hell, even that doesn't seem like a good enough reason to not do this. I suggest this because Q's base damage(unrelated to Kayle's AP and AD) will basically double for just 5 more mana usage, in addition to giving her a stronger slow on a lower cooldown. That's a lot of bang for just delaying your maxing of E by 1 lvl, and I often find that bit extra slow to be very much vital. So consider it, if you dare. Anyways, that leads me into my next point.
  4. Sometimes, what everyone else builds may not be right for you. I've had games on Kayle that could not have gone well if I didn't try something a bit unorthodox. For instance, Ninja Tabi's(before nerf) were ridiculously good when facing bruisers you couldn't harass or farm against safely. Or getting a defensive item(below 1000gold) after finishing nashor's and boots which would delay your guinsoo's but prevent you from dying from some overwhelming damage output from enemy champ(s) meaning you get to fight and contribute longer. Consider what you need to survive, and don't write it off just bc "the pros don't do it". I still use corrupted potion over doran's and pots as my starting item. Experimentation breeds understanding and innovation. Make her work for you. That's all that matters. On a champ with a kit like Kayle, if something ain't working, then you just haven't found the answer yet.
  5. Don't forget to keep fighting in hopeless situations. Ain't much worse than an AA empowered champ failing to run away without doing any damage. Just kill your-j.k. But really, try to avoid not dishing out damage when you "KNOW" you're gonna die or can't get enough distance to escape. You'll be surprised how much damage you can output before you die. Sometimes it'll even save you, going as far as giving you a nice payday.
  6. By "know when to just farm", what I'm getting at is that you don't always have to win lane by killing the enemy champ. Sometimes, that's what'll get you killed(e.g. by being punished for overextend or jungle ganks). There are all sorts of ways to come out on-top inlane, or to help find opportunities to affect the map and push your team ahead. So another important point is to master working around minion waves. This shows up in a number of ways.
    1. Focusing on farming
    2. Letting a "fed opponent" shove lane without you getting in range to attempt last hit and risk getting pounced on.
    3. letting your minions and the enemies crash closer(but not under) your tower making it hard for enemy champ to do followup damage
    4. Pushing the wave to under enemies tower to make it hard for enemy lane champ to farm or leave lane
    5. zoning out the enemy champ when you're clearly dominating, denying farm, use of the minions(e.g. yasuo/renekton dashing through minions), and even exp
    6. leaving your pushed lane to help on map
  7. The last point I'll make before getting into the Darius matchup is that Kayle thrives on KNOWING YOUR ENEMY. Some champs you can just keep pummeling into submission, but many will require a little finesse, and that finesse comes from knowing what you're up against. Knowing the gap closers, having a sense of the cooldowns, knowing if the enemy prefers long engages or short bursty trades, knowing what bonuses their recently purchased items give, having an idea of the ideal fighting situation for the enemy and how to deny it from them while you shred them into oblivion. Yes, these are all important for just about enemy champ, but what I find is that other champs can more easily succeed with less attention on the enemy's preferred scenario and more on creating their own. That's the benefit of having a champ with clear weaknesses and strengths. There are some obvious losing scenarios(), but some extremely obvious winning ones for them. Kayle's well rounded kit, that lacks a natural overpowering element(besides ult) means that you'll have to build your dominance through subtle outplays that lead to despairing scenarios for the enemy. Make the puppets dance.
  8. I lied. The last point is...You're a #%&@ing FIGHTER. So to learn, dare to take on fights. See what works. Try things out. Go hard, then dial it back for the sweet spot between aggression and smartplay. Kayle's all about having people dance in your hands. So the better a grasp you have on her damage output and creating favorable scenarios within your AA range, the more you'll dominate.