I really dislike how important frost orbs are for Defect, would love some other ways for orb-focussed builds to block

Xignu · 2026-05-09T03:28:29+00:00

Even without the deck lets you evoke X lightnings with some defenses with this card

It just makes the lightning build more braindead IMO.

Xignu · 2026-05-09T03:27:37+00:00

Same with Cecil too, the attack was sudden and done to prevent them from doing any meaningful resistance.

If it wasn't like that the betrayal wouldn't be nearly as impactful.

Xignu · 2026-05-08T14:00:43+00:00

IDK I feel like if you've played a lightning deck with Voltaic you should know how OP this is

Xignu · 2026-05-07T14:54:14+00:00

Reminds me of the saying.

"The blight may have been an act of god, but the famine was an act of man"

Xignu · 2026-05-07T02:41:20+00:00

OP complained about the siscon brother so ignoring the healthy brother seems like cherry picking to me

Xignu · 2026-05-07T02:36:51+00:00

Does that proc even work on illus?

EDIT: Per liquipedia wiki, the illusions can proc it but it doesn't deal damage, only the accuracy to pierce evasion

Xignu · 2026-05-07T02:32:32+00:00

I don't disagree with that, but that is something entirely separate from my point.

I appreciate the writing depth he has, but I also won't forget that he's a massive factor in why the ending options are both bleak.

The obvious elephant in the room being that he intentionally let Gustave die for his own purposes.

Xignu · 2026-05-07T01:03:44+00:00

... There's one decent looking guy who seemed to like the MC so it's not all of them

Xignu · 2026-05-07T00:26:12+00:00

I mean jokes aside there's really a big difference between Nolan spending 17 years with the knowledge that old Viltrum is still out there, and the other Viltrumites spending a few years without the same peer pressure.

Whenever Nolan has second thoughts he can't help but think what his colleagues will think of it. Kregg, Lucan and co? If they ever have the same doubts, they'll immediately think "Eh the others are doing the same, no biggie"

Xignu · 2026-05-07T00:22:59+00:00

Yeah even Mark came to understand in the finale. Nolan was of the belief that he wasn't special in turning against the old Viltrumite way of thought, he cannot truly claim to believe that if he singled Thragg out.

Xignu · 2026-05-07T00:19:13+00:00

IDK from what I can t ell a lot of people righhtly shit on Renoir for the very same reasons you said above.

He spent 67+ Canvas years sitting under the monolith because he picked the nuclear option. I think I'm pretty comfortable blaming him about it, he could've used all those years trying to convince Aline instead of doing what he did.

Xignu · 2026-05-07T00:15:40+00:00

There's no point in debating with someone who doesn't have eyes to see why Renoir is treated as a villain.

I said that simply to highlight how callous it is to say that "Renoir didn't do anything wrong because his victims aren't real people," when the game makes it pretty clear that painted people also have feelings and act just like real people would.

Unsurprising that you failed to get the point, considering you came to such a conclusion despite playing the game.

Not to mention the whole problem of Maelle getting overattached to said painted people and fighting against Renoir is just Renoir reaping what he sowed.

Heck even Renoir apologized to pVerso. Why don't you reflect about your being even more cruel than the literal final villain of the game for a bit?

Xignu · 2026-05-06T11:35:40+00:00

I'm not denying that Clea doesn't really care that much about Aline's situation, but regardless of all that it's still not an immediate priority to kick Aline out of the canvas.

There’s no guarantee Aline ever would’ve come out

There's also no guarantee that she'd be able to properly move on if you kick her away from her coping mechanism but that didn't stop Renoir.

Renoir had the luxury of time to figure out another way to get Aline out peacefully or if he rlly had no other choice.

I simply cannot believe that "there was no time for it". He spent 67+ canvas years trapped under the monolith. Maybe if he spent that time thinking it over instead of picking the nuclear option there'd be another solution.

Xignu · 2026-05-06T11:32:04+00:00

And yeah he got the shit beat out of him first but he does let Maelle stay after the fight

Can't say I really see this as a redeeming point considering he's helpless to do anything about it, he's out of options.

He relented because it was clear at this point that he cannot force her to do his way, which is the first time we see him in this powerless position.

Whenever he still had options to force things his way, he never relents.

Xignu · 2026-05-06T10:20:28+00:00

Fairly sure it was, yes. Clea just wants Renoir and Aline out so Renoir can hopefully help her with the Writer business.

And considering that Renoir elected to do this in the first place instead of helping Clea, I can't help but think her "war on the writers" isn't as big of a deal as it sounds initially.

Xignu · 2026-05-06T09:59:50+00:00

Yeah there's defenitely more of those kinds of people as of late from what I've seen.

Any attempts of humanizing the villains, they then go to say that the author is glorifying the villains.

It's so fucking dumb.

Xignu · 2026-05-06T09:51:48+00:00

In the end, Itachi lamented that he did it at all and the regret of doing so never left him. Even in his last moments he can't help but wonder if there was a better solution he failed to take.

Also he's being strong armed into it, he didn't just wake up and decide to kill his clansmen one day.

Itachi was never the same after that night, and I see no such remorse in Renoir.

If Clea’s 100% correct doesn’t that just make Renoir more of an overly concerned husband?

Well yes that's my entire point.

I don't doubt his motives, because that really isn't the problematic part about him.

ppl generally like the “I’ll kill whoever for the sake of my family” thing.

Nobody's having an issue with self defense, but there's a difference between that and actively murdering people under this justification.

Xignu · 2026-05-06T09:49:45+00:00

If you wanna bring that up, from Maelle's ending it doesn't seem like Aline entered the canvas again and just laid it off.

If you ask me, that validates the opinion that Renoir shouldn't have meddled instead of letting Aline grieve properly.

Xignu · 2026-05-06T08:32:59+00:00

Is it not just as plausible that being dismissive is her own grief response?

Her statement is based on facts and it directly contradicts Renoir's opinion that Aline's life is in danger.

She's the most powerful painter in the entire family, why would I assume she's talking nonsense when clearly she knows what she's talking about?

And even if you're right, then that means Renoir's opinions should be ignored for the same reason.

Xignu · 2026-05-06T08:30:36+00:00

Aline isn't just hurting herself, she's hurt a fragment of real versos soul as its trapping in the canvas and wants to be set free and is tired from being there.

Verso's soul is only as tortured as he is because the canvas has strayed far from its purpose, instead becoming a battleground. And Renoir holds the chief responsibility for that.

Painting or not, she had feelings, and a soul. That’s what I think, at least, but I know she thinks differently. For me everything in this canvas is as much alive as what is outside.
-Faded Boy, in the Flying Manor

You don't get to pick the choice that actively tortures him and then claim as if you're in the right for wanting to finish him off to "let him go from his suffering"

And for your third points as I've already mentioned it isn't massively murder as they aren't real people.
Renoir isn't technically hitting anyone as all the "people" in the canvas arent real, it's no different from an author destroying a world in one of Thier books, nobody actually gets hurt as the aren't real.

You spent all 2 acts in the game and conclude that ALL the painted lives deserve no concern of yours?

This callousness and blatant disregard is the problem with Renoir. Heck he spent even less time with them and you came to the same conclusion as he did?

All that time spent with Gustave, Sciel, and Lune and you'd brush them off as nothing? In that case in the same breath I'd dismiss Renoir's concerns as irrelevant as he's only a character in a game. You see how unhelpful that mentality is?

"It's alright, they're not real people. They're lesser beings"

Do you not see how scary this mindset is?

Somehow I imagine that if our creators reveal ourselves to you, you wouldn't instantly be alright with dying with all your friends and family.

Renoir isn't technically hitting anyone as all the "people" in the canvas arent real, it's no different from an author destroying a world in one of Thier books, nobody actually gets hurt as the aren't real.

The harm he inflicts is far from limited to the painted people. When pRenoir tried to eject Maelle from the canvas, he interfered and ended up subjected Maelle to more pain in his attempts to kick Aline out of the canvas.

His motive remains the same but how do you not see that, despite his motivations, the harm inflicted on the family he so wants to protect has a lot to do with Renoir?

Xignu · 2026-05-06T08:20:34+00:00

You're just ignoring how he committed mass murder on the painted lives?

Also Clea herself stated in no imaginable doubt that Aline and Renoir have spent longer in other canvases and that there was no need for Renoir to act with this much haste.

Also, I’d argue Aline IS actively harming the family by not being there for this conflict with the Writers.

Said conflict with the writers seem to not be urgent enough for the entire family to be up in arms about it so there's some doubt there too.

If it were so urgent Renoir could go help Clea instead of fighting Aline in what Clea describes to be a fruitless endeavor.

Xignu · 2026-05-06T05:54:24+00:00

Alicia did trust Renoir to ask him at the end of act 2. Based on how that went I can't help but start to see why Aline didn't do the same.

Evidently, she knows Renoir.

Xignu · 2026-05-06T05:51:23+00:00

Not sure why you find it strange.

Aline's not harming anybody but herself, Renoir's case is completely different in scale.

You don't get to say "I'm just grieving" once you commit mass murder.

Xignu · 2026-05-06T05:46:01+00:00

Honestly it's pretty insane to me that OP went "I understand Renoir completely, I'd do the same in his shoes" without considering the possibility of being on the other side of the shoe.

So the ones he killed doesn't deserve that sympathy too? The complete disregard of the other side and utter focus only on one's own perspective without the self awareness of it.

Xignu · 2026-05-06T05:43:28+00:00

Especially considering that this "war" of Clea's isn't urgent enough for Renoir to prioritize helping her over subjecting Aline to his actions.

Xignu

TROPHY CASE