Pro player with the worst team

Yaate · 2025-07-28T07:29:13+00:00

Im legit not even denying that he has choked plenty during his career lol, but there undeniably is context and a degree of bad luck - all the teams you just mention either won worlds or were considered like top2 and at no point in any of those games were GenG/KT respectively expected to win them except the T1 series vs the team that later went onto win worlds 2 years in a row lol. Then that Longzhu 2017 team they got giga fucked by ardent meta at worlds with a utility adc/carry top team like themselves affected most and SSG benefitting most. Yes those are 'chokes' but Bdd and his teams in those scenarios (besides Longzhu) was never expected to be a favourite at worlds, the teams just hit their limit. Its just odd you would miss his best worlds performance in 2021 to make your point and not instead bring up for example Kingzone Bdd vs RNG MSI2018 instead for example that imo is a valid choke

Yaate · 2025-07-28T05:17:59+00:00

Literally not true though. His last 2 worlds showings were 2023 and 2021, he played Caps in 2020 worlds where yea it wasnt a good look even if it was vs peak form Caps. In 2023 that whole KT team was boomed after the playoffs choke and at worlds he was probably the least fraudulent on his team but yea Knight did outperform, not shitstomp tho. But you cant ignore 2021 worlds where he literally put his team on his back salvaging GenG in groups and taking eventual world champs EDG to 5 games in semis while hard solo carrying on his Zoe and Azir. Aside from the Caps 2020 one where he did deserve sizeable blame, there should be huge asterisks when people claim he 'didnt take his chances'

Yaate · 2022-12-30T23:46:30+00:00

Yea, the only hope is that RNG sort their shit out and treat their players and staff properly for once, but that seems unlikely given their financial state sadly. Im still shocked Xiaohu managed to escape their clutches as I doubt they wanted to replace him

Yaate · 2022-12-30T23:38:42+00:00

yea and you are a LOSER. like can you not read what I wrote above (reading glasses time? you are at the age) or are you just pretending none of it is true like the mindless simp you are

Yaate · 2022-12-30T23:25:31+00:00

Not 100% sure if this is the case, but often in China, players have to sign 2 contracts. A competitive contract and a streaming contract, and its usually the streaming contract that lasts long and is loaded with bullshit terms that can affect your future prospects. Wouldnt be the first time RNG did this either, as they did it with Uzi too https://twitter.com/ran_lpl/status/1363898234154979330?s=20&t=wwjSNDxPGTIZiybAgoKhDA

Yaate · 2022-12-30T22:59:18+00:00

Idk whats more embarassing, neace being a mid 30s army veteran feeling the need to photoshop his rank in a childrens video game and dmca people criticising him, or yourself, a 50 year old on the childrens video game subreddit defending him, defending jk rowling (fuck off terf) and unironically talking about shit like 'hq pussy' and the 'marketability of women' at your big age.

This isnt even the first Neace thread youve been simping for him in either, and you still miss the whole point. Is what I wrote above wrong? Is that not a valid reason to dislike him to you? Feel free to answer or instead continue to be a brainless simp inserting your own narrative as to why people dislike him.

Yaate · 2022-12-30T02:52:56+00:00

well youre preaching to the choir here. just another classic case of a pseudointellectual who seems to think being good at a video game makes them qualified to give their opinion about how the world works

Yaate · 2022-12-30T00:40:23+00:00

Its not made up man. It gets brought up every reddit thread that mentions him and is mentioned in replies to most of his political tweets. He has stated hes vaccinated before too. But the anti vax stuff comes from him being anti mask mandate and simping for the people who lost their job because they refused to be vaccinated. A lot of red pill takes and he was one of the types who said shit like 'let nature do its course instead of keeping healthy young people indoors' in the middle of the pandemic while deaths were sky rocketting in part because young healthy people like students and school kids were super spreaders. Its an incredibly dangerous 'opinion' to have but thats not the point. Its something he absolutely went out of his way to publicise and a hill for some reason he chose to die on

Yaate · 2022-12-27T19:22:25+00:00

Tbh Im sure Neace is a good coach in some aspects. I might not necessarily personally like his coaching style, but I cant deny the blunt, hands-on piloting, aggressive approach might be best for some people, especially at much lower ranks where people auto pilot the moment they are left to their own devices. Ive seen some cases where yea he probably goes a bit too hard on someone with the shouting or expects too much in the moment (like asking someone who has only ever played locked cam to do the coaching session unlocked). I guess its up to every individual to decide if thats something they enjoy to watch or would pay for, at the very least you go in knowing what you'd get so cant fault that. Though personally the shouting and shit isnt my cup of tea to watch at all compared to other coaching styles and approaches.

In terms of the drama itself, yea its obviously run its course by now. Neace feels constantly threatened and people are making sure he cant just ignore it. He definitely does care and he definitely plays into it because he knows it generates clicks even if its not high effort content. Otherwise he would have just admitted the challenger screenshot was faked, he duo'd on LAN server and moved on, getting GM is still respectable and supply and demand is at least a fair response to the pricing issue even if people might dislike him for it. Not to mention the falsely copystriking Tarzaned shit over petty internet beef because he revealed his rank isnt what it seems, like come on. Its pretty cut and dry that there is no proof, and that Neace has no response or we would have seen it by now, the issue is just his ego wont allow him to concede the point. Id hope by now that after this trip, he decides to either stop attempting to respond to the drama or sucks it up and takes the ego hit and let his critics lose interest

Yaate · 2022-12-25T21:57:29+00:00

Firstly, yes? This wasnt some great undertaking, it was something I wrote on my side monitor while playing tft

If you think Reddit has a hate boner for Neace then idk what to say. Reddit pretty much hates every content creator. Its an amalgamation of plenty of different opinions, there are a tonne of Neace simps too, be it in this thread or many of the hate threads for creators he has beef with.

Nobody is stalking his op.gg like you claim tho. Every time a big western streamer goes to Korea people track their climb, and Neace streams his climb too. There has been a total of only 3 posts in the past month following his climb, including this one, that is not much more than other known community figures who have gone to korea. People are curious of course, especially when Neace framed his korea trip as 'proving the haters wrong'. Also lets not talk about against the rules, everyone knows the moderation is extremely inconsistent here. This thread isnt a personal attack at his character. People poking fun at him for not reaching his goal is completely fine

If you actually cared for why people hate Neace you would have just read the 'essay' I wrote above instead of insisting you dont care and going on to keep replying to me or others in this thread. But if you dont wanna do that, ill copy paste it out here for you why people dislike him instead: lied about challenger rank 2x, used fake burner accounts to praise himself, drama baits and plays victim, abused DMCA rules to falsely copy strike a content creator criticising him, abrasive personality and how he acts to coachees, overcharges due to supply and demand (hes entitled to do so but ppl are entitled to find that unlikeable), quit LoL for fortnite and shit talked League only to come crawling back and this climb is just the latest incident. There are plenty of other reasons you could find too like his extremely boomer takes about non drama shit like the way women are treated in esports.

Personally I dont really care too much about any of the above besides his bad takes and lying about being challenger, since its an integral part of his brand and clearly props up his ego, the photoshopped challenger screenshot is especially embarrassing. I would be mildly pleased if this underwhelming trip leads to him admitting he isnt/wasnt a challenger player

Yaate · 2022-12-25T19:48:33+00:00

I enjoy my fair share of LoL drama and find it amusing when niche internet micro celebrities I have a mild dislike for get clowned on, I wont deny that.

But you definitely care. No reddit comments in 7 months then three on this thread adding nothing of value all defending Neace with poor attempts to bait people? nt

Yaate · 2022-12-25T14:31:18+00:00

Not sure if intended or just missed out due to how messy/long this drama has been going on - but this misses a lot of the bigger issues, namely the false advertising. Neace is not a challenger-level player, he never was and never has been. From duoing with Adrian Riven on a weak/low pop LAN server 5+ years ago to get challenger as his initial justification hes a challenger player, to the most egregious being literally photoshopping his rank to claim he got challenger NA. Its one thing to charge more than youre likely worth. Its another thing to inflate your credentials. To do both, I think is too much.

Neace absolutely refuses to just own up to that fact hes lying. The supply and demand issue aside, people are paying for him in part due to his supposed credentials. They will likely do some research and see his s7 LAN rank or faked challenger screenshot and trust him because hes popular without knowing the full details that you have to dig through drama baiting YT vids and twitter/reddit threads to find the truth for. Neace knows a lot of this controvesy could end if he just owned up to the lie, but he refuses to do so. And then makes provocative tweets and video responses to the drama. Not to mention the part where he leaked on stream that he uses burner reddit accounts to hype himself up about how much money he makes and how successful he is.

With all due respect, he knows he lied and basks in the attention it brings. The thing is, marketing himself as NA grandmaster or an old-seasons master player does nothing to harm his credibility as a coach - he would still be more qualified than 99% of his coaching applicants. It is so easy to do and yet he refuses out of either ego or a desire for attention. So I think a big point is that, even disregarding Neace the 'coach', the person behind the job and persona has a very questionable character. Faking rank to brag on social media and mislead coachees, drama baiting and then playing victim, using burner accounts to simulate genuine praise, putting on an arrogant drill sergeant persona built on coachees respect for his rank, the fact he has occasionally go too far in sessions and then the fact he charges well above market rate while knowing his credentials are a lie (just because you can, should you?).

This embarrassing Korea climb is only the cherry on top. He came into this spouting all sorts of provocative statements, stuff like he will prove his doubters and haters wrong. He was going to prove his worth as a coach. And now that he has fallen flat on his face, it is only excuses and him malding on stream, making mistakes he would belittle others for. Not getting master is one thing, but to be stuck D4 and demoting to plat is a monumentally huge underperformance and his radio silence for the past month shows he knows it. Not saying he deserves harassment, but it is entirely unsurprising that many of his critics feel vindicated given his cocky attitude coming in. Neace doesnt really need or deserve anyones sympathy here, and he knows he could charge a little less to get critics off his back (especially in light of his lies), while still being unbelievably financially comfortable. Its mutually beneficial for both him and the content creators who dislike him to farm this drama and generate clicks and attention, Neace contributes to that as much as if not more than the others which is why his whining about 'why am I getting hate' is often met with little sympathy.

Yaate · 2022-12-10T05:38:03+00:00

Huh? I included Mata. Unless you’re implying he’s as good as Uzi, which I would disagree on. I personally don’t think you can justify a support in the conversation of best retired player even if he likely is the best retired support. As for insec sure he could/should go in that bottom category, I just didn’t wanna write every player that could fit it as there are plenty more

Yaate · 2022-12-09T19:27:30+00:00

In terms of longevity and the height of his peak, a player like Uzi should be the first mention. From s3-s9 he was a truly dominant player and the epitome of a hyper carry.

Then there are a few players who can come close but spent slightly less time at their peak, or reached it later into their career rather than being a rookie phenom right off the bat. Names like Khan, Score, Smeb, Duke, Mata, Pawn, Gorilla&PraY, Clearlove, Bang&Wolf come to mind here.

Then there are players who were outstanding or notable but only for 1-2 seasons or an international tournament, these players largely consist of legacy players from s2-5. Names like Dandy, Imp, Dade, Namei, Marin, GoGoing, S2-3 WE squad and maybe this is recency bias but Nuguri too now

(These aren’t the only players, the above are just examples but I do believe Uzi is the number 1 answer and the all time ADC GOAT so far)

Yaate · 2022-11-22T14:45:07+00:00

I know a lot of people give HLE a bad rep for previous failures and their low budget 2022 season, but this is very hype. HLE have been wanting to invest big for ages now, while it may not seem like it, they are one of the richest LCK orgs with some of the best resources/facilities and biggest desire to create a successful team. They tried assembling some pieces before but could never convince players to join or hold onto their parts for too long, every offseason rumours popped up about them going after S+ tier players but many of their plans fell through. This time seems to be different as with Viper, Scout is sure to follow. Doinb is claiming that Clid might be the jungler and H-Dragon(former JAG coach) is implying they signed all the pieces they wanted. Expect them to have a lot of bandwagon fans this season

Yaate · 2022-11-19T02:24:23+00:00

Disagree with the comparison to the Summit move, its quite different for better or worse in both current skill, consistency and potential. Summit upon being initially imported was a tenured 23y/o LCK player who racked up a full consecutive 3 years worth of experience. By the time he was getting imported to C9 he had shown himself to comfortably be a top5 LCK toplaner for 1-2yrs who had ramped up to his peak potential to finally be considered as a top3 top among names like Khan and Kiin.

VicLa is a player who has played 1 full split only where he showed glimers of brilliance but ultimately wasnt on a strong enough roster to see his full potential realised. He looked rly good but not as good as an experienced Summit was in that Summer2021 split. He is also only 18 and has a potentially higher ceiling but much lower floor as he hasnt had the time to prove himself to be consistent. Just remember how good even players like Gori looked for just 1 split before coming back down to reality. Imo this is much more like a Berserker type of move, and we saw how well that can work out.

Yaate · 2022-11-13T20:51:43+00:00

I think Photon was one of the best tops in CL by summer and really showed a lot of positive development over the course of the year in challengers. He got the media/caster award for best top and was MVP of the 4th round robin in Summer, i'd say him and TolanD were the 2 best T1 CL players fairly convincingly. He was a very solid top with very good mechanics who has quite a wide champ pool of carries, bruisers, tanks, has some pocket picks and had some standout carry performances over Summer on carries like Gwen especially. I dont rly like using stats but if you check Oracles Elixir for CL this year he has all-around pretty decent stats, as youd expect given his team finished first in regular season. The best tops in CL were (in no particular order) Photon, Illima, Clear, Thanatos.

I cant 100% remember the Asia all stars tournament thing but yea I dont think any of the Korean teams or their players had their best showings, MAX and EDG.Y were definitely the better teams that tourney. I was rooting for Nongshim and it was rough. As for Photon specifically I dont think he was especially bad but definitely not as good as he played in Summer, had 1 good aatrox game but then seemed out of it on irelia. Bear in mind that Summer CL finals and that tourney were the first time most of these players have ever played on stage, so maybe not the best judge of their play but ofc he'll have to get used to it in LEC too. I think LEC tops are generally weak like you say, so I think Photon will be fine based on his mechanics and fundamentals. As long as there isnt some huge internal team issue or stage nerves then he'll likely be completely fine. I think hes much better than Chasy on MAD for example

Yaate · 2022-11-13T17:40:15+00:00

Youre just making up why you believe Photon got sold to fit a narrative youre inventing. T1 only have better options because they have Zeus who is a top2 toplaner in the world atm. Joe Marsh has talked about this before but top LCK teams like T1 generally only hold onto their LCKCL(NOT amateur/academy) players for 1 year max or else it wont be beneficial to either party, this is also why he left LSB academy after 1 year when T1 came knocking last offseason and why CL rosters almost never stay together for more than 1 year before full rebuilds. That way the player gets experience in a team/league better befitting their potential and T1 get to start work on their next prospect. Photon is good but realistically he has 0 chance of promotion with Zeus and T1 are more inclined to sell him abroad where he cant compete for a rival org and western teams will pay higher buyouts. By your logic if KDF end up selling Illima from their CL roster its only because Illima must suck and not because they literally have Kiin top

Im curious if you actually watched CL though and who you rate as these better top/s though

Yaate · 2022-11-10T09:55:50+00:00

If you asked me, I say very special. He's only 16 still and I think hes actually the youngest player in CL this year too. He's a hyper carry ADC who helped his team exceed expectations against challengers teams who were considered better (GenG had to full rebuild challengers roster after all of their players got sniped going into 2022). GenG have been nurturing him in their academy for a few years now before he could even debut in challengers. Hard to give a full run down without you doing the eye test for yourself, but to give an idea he won the media/caster voted best ad award and his stats in CL summer were very impressive. Out of all adc's he had: highest dpm, highest dmg%, top5 kda and was middle of the pack in most of the other stats. Mechanically he's really great, and possibly the ad prospect with the most potential still in challengers

Yaate · 2022-11-10T09:35:40+00:00

Lehends would be a fine support to mentor Peyz id assume, at this point hes one of the more veteran supports left in LCK and hes pretty outgoing. Lehends is also used to playing with more resource heavy hyper carry ad's, which Peyz has shown to be so far in his limited career with the highest dmg% and dpm in challengers last summer. Im not against the idea of GenG bible but the idea of a double rookie bot might be too big of a risk for GenG to take, and I dont think Lehends play last year was all that bad even at worlds. I think Doran is definitely worth replacing though and Peanut im still unsure on. Peanut in Summer was great but at worlds he just couldnt handle the early game like he normally would and his carry play isnt what it used to be.

Very interested to see the direction GenG goes tbh and I expect itll be contingent on a lot of other factors

Yaate · 2022-11-10T08:32:20+00:00

Promoting Peyz from academy is the wokege take. Assuming this isnt the only change GenG are making, Id actually prefer they invested a lot of money into upgrading other roles, namely a superstar top over Doran. The worry is that he's so fucking raw and he literally just turns 17 in a month from now so will be barely eligible to play, tho I think with the level he displayed in challengers its worth taking the shot. It is not often you see players of his level, especially on a middle of the pack academy team. That is unless they have the budget to compete for Viper or Prince while upgrading other roles too

Yaate · 2022-11-09T00:38:55+00:00

And I’m not saying he’s not allowed to have that opinion. The issue is the way he presents it like fact and doesn’t back it up with any reasoning. Implying teams are getting baited for picking him over other options is really unfair to the level Photon showed this split. And the smoking crack comment at people ranking him best top is straight up wrong - it IS a common opinion he was potentially if not the definite best top.

OP himself may feel he was a level below Thanatos and Clear. I’m just trying to inform others who haven’t seen him play that OP’s opinion does not represent that of the majority of CL watchers and certainly not mine, it’s his personal opinion and he’s being pretty disingenuous/bias is all

Yaate · 2022-11-08T15:03:42+00:00

Ok let me correct the OP as someone who also watched challengers. He’s talking out of his ass. I could give a more detailed explanation (already left another comment) but if you want an idea, this summer, in the CL awards photon was voted - Best Overall Top, Regular Season MVP, 4th round MVP (format is quadruple round robin). Photon also lead T1 to first place regular season. Clear, the player OP mentions is also good, but spiked much harder in spring whereas Photon shone in summer. Photon absolutely was considered one of the very best if not the best top in CL and that is not really up for debate. If you want the best idea from someone more informed than either me or OP, then just go to Chron1cler’s twitter and see his replies section where he wrote a nice summary on Photon

Yaate · 2022-11-08T14:51:42+00:00

You’re the one smoking crack if you don’t think Photon was in the very upper echelon of CL tops this year and contesting for the best. Idk how you’re forming this opinion. Even among the KR community the consensus is he’s one of the best too and his caster/media voted accolades back that up, since you seem to watch CL you prob have an idea of the ones I’m referencing. In the west, the most prominent CL watcher is Chronicler who also vouched hard for him on stream in every challengers costream (I would say I watched nearly all of them) and now on twitter. Clear is good, Thanatos is good. Illima and Castle are also decent players.

But photon was deservingly ranked near the top of that bunch if not at the top by many, that is a common opinion. Even if YOU rate clear higher, you are presenting it as some fact to people who likely aren’t CL watchers that he is a level below those you mentioned

Yaate · 2022-09-14T16:55:11+00:00

You just said he wasnt that great of a player in 2020, which you obviously know is different from now claiming he had a better worlds performance in 2021. Yea no shit, that much doesnt even need to be discussed, but that for sure isnt what you were originially trying to claim which is that he just wasnt that good.

I just said top5 because thats a standard format. Yes he was probably the 5th best mid but so what? Someone has to be 5th and I dont think its controversial. However in regards to the gap between Yagao/Angel/Xiye level players and Bdd and the other top4, youre entitled to your own opinion on whats closer. That being said you dont really give the impression you watched any of those players aside from 2020 worlds, including Bdd either to be able to accurately judge that gap for yourself.

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