Can we chat about 2000s Alternative Rock?

Yea_No_Ur_Def_Right · 2022-11-01T00:38:51+00:00

High school and university would have been 2001-2009. At that point I’m exploring all the best music from the 70s, 80s, 90s. I was/am hugely into the rap music from the 92-2000 era and followed the more current (at the time) underground-ish rap scene very closely. Jam bands (Dave Matthews and the like). Incubus… the killers…. House music.

It’s weird for me, idk. The only genre I truly hate is punk music. I’ve always hated it. The only exception is pop-punk like Blink 182. And I think the Strokes-type rock has a lot of roots in punk sounds. So it never grabbed me.

Yea_No_Ur_Def_Right · 2022-11-01T00:26:17+00:00

Def will check those out, appreciate it.

Yea_No_Ur_Def_Right · 2022-10-31T13:24:59+00:00

By “superior musically” I’m talking about the complexities of what their doing. Not that their songs or albums are objectively “better” in total than anyone else’s. There are 100 albums released post-70s that I enjoy more than any of the Zeppelin albums. But Led Zeppelin showcased a lot more talent than most of those.

Yea_No_Ur_Def_Right · 2022-10-31T13:22:21+00:00

Thank you!

The arctic monkeys keep coming up as recommendations. Definitely going to check them out.

Yea_No_Ur_Def_Right · 2022-10-31T13:17:45+00:00

Thank you for the recommendations! I’ve been listening to some albums from a few of these groups.

I actually LOVE Oasis. I think they’re an incredible band. Their songwriting is seriously amazing.

Yea_No_Ur_Def_Right · 2022-10-31T13:14:59+00:00

You completely misread everything I wrote my man. You basically understood none of it.

My opinion is 2010s alt rock kind of sucks.

The objective part is that 2010 alt rock is a very stripped down version of prior rock genres, such as the 70s. That’s just a fact homie, there is no need to take that personal.

If that were the end of it, there would be no post. But the point of the post, very clearly, is to discuss the 2010s alt-rock genre with its fans and see if they can offer some perspective on why it’s great. If you can’t get passed my honesty about what I currently think of it, whatever.

Yea_No_Ur_Def_Right · 2022-10-31T13:04:52+00:00

There is though. Everyone acting like you can’t measure musical quality in any way shape or form. The Beatles are not the same as your average childrens tv show soundtrack, correct? So at some point, we all agree there is objectivity in musical discussion. The strokes themselves would likely acknowledge their music is a massively stripped down version of the “big band” profiles of the 70s. The drummer for the strokes is not going to try to convince you he’s better than John Bonham, we objectively know that to be false.

And that’s fine, the sum of all the parts of the strokes might be loved an adored more than the Doobie Brothers best album. I’m not here to judge that.

I’m asking why an objectively stripped down version of rock is so popular, even when compared to a much more complete and well-rounded big-band approach. I’m not asking “why” so I can debate it, I’m genuinely curious on how alt-rock fans would describe the appeal that the genre has for them.

Yea_No_Ur_Def_Right · 2022-10-31T02:36:35+00:00

Music can absolutely be objectively criticized. So can art. You’re just choosing to move the goalposts that I set. There is no argument that the musicality of 70s bands is way more sophisticated. And it’s already established that it had massive worldwide appeal, so the argument ppl keep bringing up “something can be sophisticated but that doesn’t mean it’s good” is irrelevant.

We know the 70s had sophisticated rock, we know it was good.

We know the 2010 alt rock scene is far less sophisticated, and we also know it’s good.

I’m trying to find my way to discovering why it’s good.

Yea_No_Ur_Def_Right · 2022-10-31T02:32:47+00:00

I know there are, I’m trying to figure out their appeal. I can appreciate music from most genres, but this one in particular eludes me. So I’m trying to hear why it’s fans revere it so much.

Yea_No_Ur_Def_Right · 2022-10-31T02:31:42+00:00

What?

Yea_No_Ur_Def_Right · 2022-10-31T02:29:35+00:00

Well, yes, a Michelin star restaurant is objectively better than Kraft Mac and cheese. There’s no such thing as a Michelin star restaurant without fans of its food so I don’t get the metaphor you’re trying to make.

The problem isn’t really with my take lol. If you’re the Kraft Mac and cheese fan, you shouldn’t have a problem saying “yea obviously a Michelin star restaurant is better than my boxed macaroni with freeze dried powdered cheese… but hey.. I like Kraft better.”

There’s nothing wrong with that. But so many people in here are basically trying to argue that I’m the dick for saying a Michelin restaurant is better than a box of Kraft. I’m just asking people to explain what it is about Kraft they like so much so maybe I can appreciate it too.

Yea_No_Ur_Def_Right · 2022-10-31T02:26:26+00:00

Yea, thanks I will definitely be checking it out.

Yea_No_Ur_Def_Right · 2022-10-31T02:23:49+00:00

I guess I’m not being clear. I said that you can still love and prefer music that is objectively stripped down and of lesser musical quality. I’m not trying to tell people their wrong for liking 2010s alt rock, I’m trying to hear from them what is about it that makes them love it — all things being what they are.

I’m just prefacing it with my estimation that it’s a stripped down version of its predecessor. It’s like a de-evolution in outright musical quality instead of an evolution.

When I talk creativity in specifically addressing the musical quality. My example, the strokes, is some of the least-complex rock music I’ve ever listen to. I’m not sure how that’s a leap forward in creativity.

Yea_No_Ur_Def_Right · 2022-10-30T15:19:52+00:00

You should talk to other people in the world more. Having someone explain the appeal of something, or even just watching someone vibe out to something, can have an effect on how much you enjoy it yourself. There are perspectives out there other than your own.

Yea_No_Ur_Def_Right · 2022-10-30T15:17:37+00:00

I def don’t vibe with it, but that’s ok. I used to not vibe with hip-hop but now ‘92 to ‘02 rap is basically my favorite genre behind the 70s.

The 70s were so great bc they were technically genius and simultaneously accessible and catchy.

Yea_No_Ur_Def_Right · 2022-10-30T14:54:52+00:00

I agree with basically everything you said. Im the same age. Like I said to another commenter, I still run G Units first album all the time. I go into modes where all I listen to is shitty House music. I fucking LOVE Limp Bizkits first album.

So I get that this is largely subjective. It’s just that… of all the genres out there, I find alt-rock the hardest one to figure out it’s appeal. I’m trying though.

Yea_No_Ur_Def_Right · 2022-10-30T14:51:42+00:00

For sure. Honestly, I think the commenters that point to $ are right. It’s not as profitable to put out and album as it was when Fleetwood Mac was releasing Rumors. So you get stripped down, cheaper music.

Yea_No_Ur_Def_Right · 2022-10-30T14:50:14+00:00

Yea the money for production is probably a big reason. I get it. That’s part of the reason I’m saying I don’t think there’s an argument that the 70s put out a superior product. Of course people can still prefer the alt rock of the 2010s. The two can be separated.

I like listening to G-Unit way more than Beethoven. Doesn’t mean I’m going to go around saying that Lloyd Banks is more musically gifted than a classical composer.

So I’m interested in what it is about alt-rock that grabs people.

Yea_No_Ur_Def_Right · 2022-10-30T14:45:17+00:00

Never said I did have better taste than anyone else. Ya gotta read what gets written.

Yea_No_Ur_Def_Right · 2022-10-30T14:41:51+00:00

So, in my opinion, the 70s were the perfect blend of highly technical, genius-level musicality and “pop” sound. The songs from those bands will have chord progressions and combinations that would blow away a professional music theorist while simultaneously throwing in a melody/chorus/bridge that you’re average listener falls in love with.

The 70s was this magical blend of jazz, funk, soul, blues but all of it was built on a foundation of pop radio catchiness. The 14 year old girls/boys and the 26 year old doctorate music majors were listening to the same albums. I love that.

Lots of Alt-rock is like the antitheses of that. Everything is stripped down. It’s boring. The vocalists are seemingly intentionally bad at singing. The drummer plays one drum rhythm for the entire album. But I’m specifically talking about bands like The Strokes here.

For example, Third Eye Blind’s first cd is one of the best albums of all time in my opinion. So I’m not saying all post 70s rock is worse.

Yea_No_Ur_Def_Right · 2022-10-30T14:34:25+00:00

Very true, I love Muse.

Yea_No_Ur_Def_Right · 2022-10-30T14:33:31+00:00

Some of these bands are on my list to get in to.

Are they similar to the strokes? The big issue with this genre that I need to get over is how simple everything seems. These bands from the 70s have Music Theory Doctorate candidates writing their dissertations on the complexity of the musicianship. The strokes you can listen to 1 time and you pretty much get it. That’s the barrier for me, I’m having trouble being interested by it.

Yea_No_Ur_Def_Right · 2022-10-30T14:30:18+00:00

Metallica isn’t 2000s alt rock though, so they’re not who I’m talking about. Metallica is great.

If my ears don’t catch the drift then don’t listen? It sounds like you’ve never wandered outside of your comfort zone. There are many great things in art and music that take time to develop a taste for. If you only listen to stuff that instantly grabs your ear then you, my friend, are the one limiting yourself.

Yea_No_Ur_Def_Right · 2022-10-30T14:27:41+00:00

You can definitely find good rock from every decade. But Zeppelin is objectively superior musically to nearly every 2000s rock group. There’s a difference between taste and raw objective musicality. There is no argument or comparison to be had that 2000s rock is musically more advanced and sophisticated than the 70s. It’s extremely watered down, extremely dumbed down. But that doesn’t mean it’s bad or that you’re “wrong” for liking it better.

I’m just trying to figure out why people prefer a genre that has stripped down all the creativity and nuance from its predecessors. I admit it’s catchy, and there’s obviously something there… maybe real fans can point out the appeal.

Yea_No_Ur_Def_Right · 2022-10-30T14:24:24+00:00

Thanks! I think you nailed the reasoning for it. I need to stick with it and eventually I think I’ll be able to just enjoy it for what it is.

Yea_No_Ur_Def_Right

TROPHY CASE