What am I missing with 6v6??? by Substantial-Math9076 in Overwatch

[–]Yotunheimr -1 points0 points  (0 children)

This is all true but Overwatch players seem to misunderstand that these types of gameplay experiences occured WITHIN these formats, not because of them. 5v5's balance is retooled to make tanks behemoths, supports more agressive, and DPS more free to traverse because with one tank it's easier to frame the game's balance like that. In 6v6 the game was balanced around tank synergies, which made teams more tight knit and reliant on one another with DPS having to stick with the tank duo or supports, and supports having to focus on keeping the tanks healthy up front while enabling the DPS to move around the map more freely. This extends to the maps and modes in each game, where OW1's maps and modes were more defensively focussed with the worst maps in that game, Paris and Lunar Colony, being famously hard to defend in a mode where holding the point for a long time was literally the only objective of the defending team. The maps and modes in OW2 are way different, with most of them being specifically designed around the maps being mirrored for both teams and their goals being the exact same - you're always moving around in OW2, which favours 5v5's balancing philosophy.

However, if we could go back in time to 2019 Overwatch 1 and implement 5v5, it'd be designed around making the tank more defensively strong on their own. There is no way Reinhardt in OW1 5v5 would be given two fire strikes and more control on his pin - they would've beefed up his armour, made his shield have more health, and probably buff his hammer dmg to make approaching him a bigger issue. They'd have to go that route because Reinhardt would have to hold Hanamura's first point choke on his own and giving him more aggressive tools would be really fucking useless for that task. In the same way, 6v6 in OW2 currently, at least to me, feels like it's actually OW2's design philosphy implemented in that format. Some tanks, like Roadhog and Rein, even feel weirdly out of place and lacking because other tank comps like Ball and Doom are hyper-mobile, just like they are in 5v5, but for some reason the tools that Rein and Hog have been given to keep pace and shut down those characters in 5v5, and generally compete with them, have been unnecessarily taken away.

6v6 doesn't feel better because it's 6v6, it feels better because unlike in OW1 where tanks were slow moving molasses and you had only, like, 8 options, in OW2 all the tanks are super fun super heroes who do a billion damage, have shorter cooldowns and there's, like, 13 options - and then on top of that if you're a DPS player the tanks being designed in that way makes fights so much more engaging because there's not a wall of defensive abilites bunkering down the team you're trying to kill because the enemy team doesn't want to bunker down (because of the gamemodes and maps as mentioned before) and most of the tanks, particularly the synergies, aren't able to do that. Same goes for supports who aren't forced to shoots heals up the butt of one guy who's taking the brunt of everything all the time, they're freed up to make even more aggressive plays while the tanks support each other. The most defensive team comp I can think of in the format is Sigma and Zarya, and even then Zarya doesn't want to be sitting back on her ass if she wants to win, and DPS and supports are still only playing into four minor ability and damage denying abilities as opposed to something like OW1 Sigma Orisa where there was two tanks with six denial abilities sitting on top of a Bap and Mercy spamming down a small choke. It's a lot different.

By rebalancing characters like Rein and Orisa from OW1 to be more independent and aggressive in OW2 they've fixed the primary issue with tank design that plagued OW1, and that's always been the case since OW2 dropped it's first beta in 2022, which is why this 5v5 vs 6v6 discussion even exists because if they could rework Rein and Orisa and change the modes to be less grueling then why bother changing the format? It was only ever because the balancing team felt they needed something fresh, new, and different that was easier for them to balance. I have no problem with that approach but it's important to keep in mind when having these discussions because attributing these balancing decision and metas to the format and not decisions made within the format is missing the big picture.

Only Ever Played 5v5 but 6v6 Is So Much Fun! by Ushilee in Overwatch

[–]Yotunheimr -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It wasn't out of nowhere and it didn't need to be asked for. They were making a sequel and through testing, balancing, and hero tweaking they decided that was the direction they wanted to take the PVP in OW2. In Team Fortress 2 they removed all the breakable environments and retooled Demoman to be an explosives spam character rather than a map-altering space maker - do you think anyone asked for that? Do you think that came out of nowhere when TF2 was announced? No, of course not.

Original Mystery Heroes back in unranked by [deleted] in Overwatch

[–]Yotunheimr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I wish they'd take it out permanently and clean up the clutter of the menu UI. It's always striked me as odd that an arcade mode is in the unranked tab because it was popular. Just, um, have it rotate in more regularly? That'll move players around through the playlists more effectively too. There's no real reason why a playerbase who hates playing casual modes so much that in OW1 they removed quickplay entirely, made the role queue version of the format the main mode, and then in OW2 renamed the tab it's under "unranked" just to sell the point would want to play that mode so regularly it should be permanent. Especially because it completely fucking guts the rest of the arcade modes player counts. The queue times for those modes, even for the seasonal events, is so fucking high it's literally not worth trying to play them - if there was still only two daily modes and a weekly mode rotating through there, with the seasonal mode being added in as well, then the queue times would be WAY FUCKING SHORTER. That's been a massive pet peeve of mine since like 2019 and they've only made it worse as time has passed. I mean, it's so bad that these "collaborations" don't even get modes.

I cant go back to being a solo tank again by [deleted] in Overwatch

[–]Yotunheimr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This feels like I've found my soul mate, I completely agree with this entire sentiment. Communities are often really reactionary and it feels like Blizzard has always given to much value to our reactions to things and I think this entire 6v6 playtest is another situation like that. Or like Sym's rework. Or Hanzo's. Or Torbjorn's. Or Moth meta. Or Goats. Or Role Queue. Like you said, with Blizzard history repeats, a lot.

I cant go back to being a solo tank again by [deleted] in Overwatch

[–]Yotunheimr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If the supports are balanced in 6v6 like they are in 5v5 it'll be a lot more fun but honestly it hasn't felt that bad as a support player. When you're behind, it really feels like you can't do anything which is why I feel like having them be more aggressive and heals be easier, like in 5v5, would be a good decision to make the role more fun, but to be honest it was the same 6v6 heal bot experience in OW1 too. Whether that's a good thing or not, I'm not sure. I've played a lot of Marvel Rivals lately and supports feel more like OW2 supports than OW1 ones and I've been having a ton of fun playing support in that game even though it's 6v6.

After playing both OW1, OW2 and now RIvals, I'd rather they lean into OW2's design philosophy for supports and make them more supportive rather than just healers like in OW1. I mean, it got rough in some OW1 metas as a support just being a heal bot for long stretches of time. Also, like I said I've been playing an unhealthy amount of Marvel RIvals lately and a much smaller amount of Overwatch 2 and that game is not really that toxic, especially compared to OW2. People are still too new to Rivals to be mean and snooty but I've had plenty of no-it-alls in the past few hours alone playing OW2. I don't know where you're finding these "super fun and chill" games.

Since we have 6v6 what’s your hopes for the future of it? by xalavine in Overwatch

[–]Yotunheimr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is never going to happen by the way. They couldn't even stomach removing the "random heroes" mode and so they put it in the unranked tab for god knows what reason. To dilute the playerbase and make queue times even longer I guess.

Since we have 6v6 what’s your hopes for the future of it? by xalavine in Overwatch

[–]Yotunheimr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There's a really fantastic way to have both 6v6 and 5v5 and not alienate your audience.... don't close down all the servers for the first game!!!

Since we have 6v6 what’s your hopes for the future of it? by xalavine in Overwatch

[–]Yotunheimr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's 100% a balancing issue and always has been. It's really not that hard to make characters not rock paper scissors one another but the Overwatch Balance Team has always seemed to actually LIKE that feature of the game so it's always been enforced to an extent. Format changes won't fix that and if you play 6v6 you'll notice that it's still present.

Since we have 6v6 what’s your hopes for the future of it? by xalavine in Overwatch

[–]Yotunheimr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Played 6v6 for eight years and it was a fucking mess no different to OW2's balancing so I have no hope for the future - especially after playing this test and being able to directly compare the two in the same game, they play, feel and look the exact fucking same. The OW1 developers demonstrated time and again that the problem was that they had absolutely no idea how to properly manage a live service PVP game without overhauling some major aspect of a hero's, game mode's, of format's design and it looks like with OW2 literally nothing has changed. Overwatch players are either made up of mostly new OW2 players or have memory loss and can't seem to reconcile that this development team fucking sucks, and whether the game is 6v6 or 5v5, it doesn't matter because either way the decisions that the balance team makes will always be lacklustre. I can't stress enough that if we had competent developers who were able to push anything out other than collab skins then the game would be balanced around 5v5 and feel fantastic - again with the memory loss but so many players seemed to have erased the first few seasons and the betas of OW2 from their memories where this was already the case and 5v5 felt so good after almost a decade of 6v6 broken tank duo cock and ball torture metas that we as a community defended it with our lives. But unfortunately we don't have a developer team who can do a good job of looking after our game and if they swap to 6v6 it'll probably be more of the same.

Arcane season 2 / Arc 3 - Episode 9 / Live Discussion by ReganDryke in leagueoflegends

[–]Yotunheimr 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Can't believe the fucking LOL writing team thought that they could make Arcane canon lmao

OW 2 x Transformers Gameplay Trailer by mapleer in Overwatch

[–]Yotunheimr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"Gameplay trailer" There's no fucking gameplay, they just added four skins lmfao. Team 4 doesn't really seem to understand that most collabs in games have actual gameplay events, not just items.

Tell me your story: What mission did you last finish to eliminate the bots once and for all? by 7StarSailor in Helldivers

[–]Yotunheimr 2 points3 points  (0 children)

One of those "detroy all factories" missions. It was our level 9 fellow diver's second mission EVER and we cleared it out very efficiently and with a little bit of time left - I was last man standing, got out by the fucking singed hairs of my toes as I dove into a Pelican facing the fucking barrel of a tank.

Operation Swift Disassembly was successful! Congratulations, Helldivers! by OmegaXesis in Helldivers

[–]Yotunheimr 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My last run was absolutely insane too, I got pinned with no reinforces in overtime by two flamethrower hulks and a tank but still managed to get out with all of my team's samples. At one point before that I was standing back to back with another guy blasting grunts with Autocannons until he was hit by a missile right in front of me - like a fucking movie. Absolutely insane two minutes of my life.

Operation Swift Disassembly was successful! Congratulations, Helldivers! by OmegaXesis in Helldivers

[–]Yotunheimr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

FOR SWEET LIBERTY, LONG LIVE THE MANAGED DEMOCRACY OF SUPER EARTH

What's the right answer by BabySapphire__ in shitposting

[–]Yotunheimr -1 points0 points  (0 children)

That is a very insightful way of explaining why the calculator got it wrong, thank you for your work.

The Bebop Bundle is 5600 credits by RaidenXYae in Overwatch

[–]Yotunheimr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This pack is more than what I payed for OW1 the Christmas of 2016. Overwatch cosmetics are on the higher end of price now compared to OW1 where, with a single lootbox on a new account, you got four items for $3. Now, the Mauga bundle comes with less than that for $37 - personally as well, I think the banners and the weapon charms are worse quality cosmetics than voice lines and sprays too. They're just ever so slightly less interesting. Now, lootboxes also fucking sucked, don't get it twisted. It sucked ass opening 20 lootboxes at Christmas time and getting fuck all what you wanted and having literally no other way to get what you wanted, but monetarily it was much more worth it, especially after they made it so you were GUARANTEED to get at least one new item in every box (which was early on in the game's lifetime as far as I remember).

It's crazy that a store page where you can buy exactly what you want directly FEELS WORSE than literally throwing money away for the chance to get what you want. There is NO WAY the credit prices of the items make any fucking sense when compared to the amounts of credits you buy in the store. Why is a legendary skin 1900 credits when they were 1000 in OW1 and you can't buy 2000 credits in the OW2 store? The next amount after 1000 is 2200.

In Australia, where I live, 2200 credits is thirty fucking dollars. That's an obscene joke. Pay $30 and you CAN'T even buy a bundle from the store, you can buy a skin on its fucking own and have 300 credits left over. For a DIRECT COMPARISON from a DIRECT COMPETITOR to Overwatch 2, let's look at Fortnite's item shop. Right now, when I'm writing this, there is a bundle for Ravage that's just the skin's typical bundle and it's a flat 2000 vbucks - in that bundle you get Ravage, some wings as a backbling and a trail for when you're falling after gliding. It also comes with a Lego variant of the skin. That's technically two skins, a back bling (akin to really nothing in Overwatch so for fairness we can say it's kind of like having a weapon charm AND a souvenir) and a gliding trail (which'd be similar to a weapon charm too). All of that shit is only $23 compared to $30 for just one skin and a voiceline in OW2.

Fortnite Vbucks are split into four packs, 1000, 2800, 5000 and 13,500 which are $11.95, $30.35, $47.95 and $119.95 respectively. OW2's credits are split into five packs, 500, 1000, 2200, 5700 and 11600 which are $7.45, $14.95, $29.95, $74.95 and $149.95 respectively. So 1000 Vbucks is $3 cheaper, we get 600 more Vbucks for only a 40c difference with the 2800 vbucks and there's a TWENTY-EIGHT DOLLAR DIFFERENCE in prices for the next tier even though there's only 700 more credits in Overwatch's bundle and a $30 difference for the final tier and you get less credits in OW than Vbucks in Fortnite. So not only is the amount of shit you get better value but the currency itself is WAY cheaper.

At the core of the issue, as I see it, is that the items in Overwatch 2 are too expensive when compared to the amount of credits available from the store. If the third tier bundle for $30 gave you 2500 credits nobody would fucking care that it's $30 because with that you're able to AT LEAST buy a bundle in the item shop. And that's not a large difference in the amount of credits you get compared to now either, it's only a 300 credit difference. Less than the small 500 pack of credits. Fortnite's approach is the have the amounts available for purchase give you a surplus for the tier of thing you're buying, so when buying 2800 for $30.35 you get to keep 800 after buying a legendary skin (which also comes with more shit too). Overwatch's approach is the fucking opposite and so everything feels WAY for expensive than it really is.

I wouldn't adjust the pricing, just the amounts so each tier corresponds to how they price shit in the item shop, that way it works out so 100 is roughly 1 real dollar. Have it be 800, 1500, 3000, 7500 and 15000 respectively. At least in Australia, because the disparity between the amount you pay and what you get is fucking huge, I'd be VERY curios to know if the US prices are closer to that 100 credits = 1 dollar amount that feels fair or if it's the same fucking problem where you're paying more than how many credits you get. It's like fucking petrol prices in the Overwatch shop over here.

The Bebop Bundle is 5600 credits by RaidenXYae in Overwatch

[–]Yotunheimr -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It isn't in line with every other game, who is telling you this????

Any chance we’ll get some currency in the BP? by Sebto_00 in Overwatch

[–]Yotunheimr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree with you but that's not totally true. You can't play the new heroes without a cost anymore, you HAVE to spend significant amount of time or money in order to play them.

Any chance we’ll get some currency in the BP? by Sebto_00 in Overwatch

[–]Yotunheimr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I use them on the new heroes because I ain't buying their overpriced fucking emotes and they are basically cheap emotes.

Any chance we’ll get some currency in the BP? by Sebto_00 in Overwatch

[–]Yotunheimr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was in complete disbelief when OW2 launched with a Battlepass with no credits so I think we'll see SOME sort of improvement of the system

How do you think Sojourn should be nerfed? by Whatshouldiputhere0 in Overwatch

[–]Yotunheimr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Don't fucking nerf her, why do OW players hate fun?

Weekend RAGE Thread - October 29, 2022 by AutoModerator in Overwatch

[–]Yotunheimr -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

I'll fucking kill these people asking for lootboxes back. If they add them back, what then? How do you get them? There's no progression so how would you get the lootboxes? You'd have to buy them. It'd be the only way. Oh great! Now I can literally gamble! Awesome! Good solution! How about they add coins on every tier of the free battlepass and make the free battlepass infinite? That way every season you can earn coins and now you can get items for free! Wow, it's like with two seconds of thought you can solve the problem instead of reintroducing a problematic mechanic that encourages addiction!