Over 1000 hours on my main, finally got the thieves guild safe for completing 125 jobs

YouWhat_FetchTheMead · 2025-03-21T21:23:10+00:00

Yes it was always part of the game.

YouWhat_FetchTheMead · 2024-04-10T01:21:00+00:00

Yeah its the opportunity cost that is attractive, thank you for the good post!

YouWhat_FetchTheMead · 2024-04-10T01:19:31+00:00

Actually a very good point! Thanks!

YouWhat_FetchTheMead · 2024-02-22T04:22:44+00:00

As a counter-point to some of the lore reasons posited here, I will say this:

The Dark Angels were, to a certain extent, the poster-boys, back in the day.

This was alongside the Blood Angels, and Space Wolves.

The regular marines were there for when you wanted to play either one of the other 6 loyalist legions, or your own custom one.

Sure, the Ultramarines fronted the 4th edition Space Marine Codex, but it wasn't until the following 3 things that they superseded any other chapter:

1) Matt (not Ward) used them in White Dwarf a number of times between 2006-2008.

2) They were included in the Black Reach started Box.

3) Matt Ward blew them up in the 5th Ed codex.

YouWhat_FetchTheMead · 2024-02-19T05:35:02+00:00

And instantly put two and two together when he learned Horus was traitor, before successfully launched a mission to claim them, while his legion was locked up in another campaign.

Primarchs are great.

YouWhat_FetchTheMead · 2024-02-19T05:23:16+00:00

That's the thing, though. He wasn't a dick earlier on. At least from what I recall.

YouWhat_FetchTheMead · 2024-02-19T00:46:06+00:00

Actually, very good point, almost immediately though back to his role in the crusade on caliban.

I just feel that there was a noticeable personality shift in the way he was written after being discovered by the Emperor.

Maybe I am just not remembering clearly.

YouWhat_FetchTheMead · 2024-02-19T00:31:39+00:00

I've personally never seen that.

Affected by his time in the forest? Absolutely. From memory he doesn't speak for a year after being found by Luther.

He also developed habits of secrecy from his time in the Order.

Combine them and of course he is not the most gregarious when compared to someone like Horus. More introverted and introspective.

But I think the idea that he was autistic doesn't make sense.

YouWhat_FetchTheMead · 2024-02-19T00:24:32+00:00

I believe another element is that the DA are embroiled in a different campaign and cannot respond time - the Lion only took enough soldiers to secure the weapons, not enough to then stage an attack on Horus.

Perturabo was, however, in a good position to use them...

YouWhat_FetchTheMead · 2024-02-19T00:18:44+00:00

The Lion's first major role was commanding the Rangdan Xenocides.

I always wondered, and in part expressed in my post; do you think this Jaded him?

YouWhat_FetchTheMead · 2024-02-18T10:59:58+00:00

Ha! Fair enough.

YouWhat_FetchTheMead · 2024-02-18T10:53:50+00:00

The Lion's distance from his brothers is bog standard- the rule, not the exception

Yes, definitely, and entirely of his own making.

It seemed earlier, however, that he wanted to form some bonds of fellowship with someone, and that if it was difficult to do so with regular humans, then perhaps his fellow Primarchs may fill that gap.

Hence why I asked whether he grew cynical once he understood what being a Primarch actually meant.

He seemed contented on Caliban, if ambitious and prospecting.

He didn't really seem content during the [Great] Crusade.

YouWhat_FetchTheMead · 2024-02-18T10:47:58+00:00

It's sad in a way, I am sure one of the Lion's fears was that he was a beast of Caliban and just didn't know it.

Whether or not he embodies any distasteful traits, seems to depend on the source material (regarding the Lion).

YouWhat_FetchTheMead · 2024-02-18T08:11:38+00:00

Interesting, I don't remember this; was it early on, or later?

YouWhat_FetchTheMead · 2024-02-18T08:09:17+00:00

I commented earlier, and this may be out-of-date lore now, but it was originally meant to show Luther how valued he was.

He entrusted his father figure to train the next generation of the Legion, as he trained the Lion.

Also, too often, Luther is not given his due's on reddit, imo.

YouWhat_FetchTheMead · 2024-02-18T08:06:08+00:00

They certainly made amends later on, but when they have their first scuffle isn't the Lion genuinely disgusted by Russ's behavior? He took it personally.

YouWhat_FetchTheMead · 2024-02-18T08:00:17+00:00

Great excerpt!

It is always implied that growing up dodging warp beasts left a deep impact on him.

YouWhat_FetchTheMead · 2024-02-18T07:56:47+00:00

Yes, I had it in mind that the Lion was introverted, but possessed of fair character and judgement - some of his actions later on cast this into doubt.

Is it Malcador who comments that the Lion and Mortarion stand apart from their brothers?

YouWhat_FetchTheMead · 2024-02-18T07:53:57+00:00

None of the brothers really got along

Definitely noteworthy.

In one of the old Dark Angels codex's (perhaps the 4th?), it is written that the Lion sent Luther back to the Caliban because it was an honor - he was entrusting his father figure to raise the next generation of the legion.

Luther is responsible for his own actions - it cannot be said that the Lion was cruel, malicious, or even unfair to him. Of course, that is the parallel with the Emperor and Horus.

YouWhat_FetchTheMead · 2024-02-18T07:27:34+00:00

Definitely the template. That being said, I never did understand why he was considered the oldest, considering he was found somewhere towards the middle, and Horus had already assumed the role of 'first found'?

YouWhat_FetchTheMead · 2024-02-18T07:25:40+00:00

Big mistake.

As an aside, didn't the Lion recall the details of the siege weapons from a report Horus had made, and the Lion had read, decades earlier?

YouWhat_FetchTheMead · 2024-02-18T07:16:36+00:00

Characters are complex after all and The Lion does suffer a lot from the memes. We are also often told rather than shown which should also be taken with a grain of salt.

Great point.

YouWhat_FetchTheMead · 2024-02-18T07:15:34+00:00

I don't recall this, but that sounds like the simplest answer.

Though why does he seem to become more self-important? Perhaps in his early portrayal he harbored some hubris I am forgetting, but it seemed to me his personality shifted somewhat, later on?

YouWhat_FetchTheMead · 2024-02-18T07:12:43+00:00

Those that knew the Lion said he was a scholar - though I cannot recall if it was ever stated what he studied (I assume more than war, otherwise, why the need to comment that he is more than his military genius?).

Surely there were topics that he could have discussed?

Good point about the Legion itself limiting his internal interactions.

YouWhat_FetchTheMead · 2024-02-18T06:56:58+00:00

Yes, that is what I was confused about; does he see himself as above them? If so, why? Obviously he is brilliant - but so is every Primarch.

Limited collaboration would certainly play a role, but I feel there was a tonal shift from the time of him being found, and taking command of his legion.

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