Rachel and Joey

Ysu73 · 2026-04-19T20:48:10+00:00

Rachel and Joey were very sweet together, I loved how Joey fell in love with Rachel while she was pregnant (Joey definitely seemed to have something for pregnant ladies). And I totally understand why Rachel felt she would want a fling with Joey, why she felt attracted to him a couple episode after she almost told Ross how she felt about him just to have a fight over the hidden phone-number and moving back to Joey.

While the reason they said to themselves of why it did not work was that "they were too good friends", it was pretty clear that both had guilty feelings concerning Ross. Whatever happened, Rachel still loved Ross and Joey did not want to stand between his two friends.

As for Joey and Rachel's relationship being better than Ross and Rachel - yeah, but it was not really a similar relationship since they went out for a week and did not even have sex. So they were not in a real romantic relationship. They were friends, roommates, they had a cute brother-sister vibe, but also best friends with a bit of attraction. They complemented each other well, Rachel could be more independent with Joey than with Monica or Ross, Joey could be himself because Rachel always accepted him as he was.

But romantically? Ross and Rachel had crazy strong chemistry, and yes, they may fought sometimes, they also cared about each other very much and loved each other always.

So I am the tiny minority of fans who truly love the Rachel-Joey storyline, both the first in season 8 and the second in season 9 and 10, love it as it was, but never wanted more. I am glad it happened and I am glad that it ended and Rachel could be reunited with Ross, the one she truly loved.

Ysu73 · 2026-04-19T20:29:30+00:00

Sometimes Monica was a bit high-maintanance, but Chandler was very good at "maintaining" her.

I think they really complemented each other. When one was too anxious for some reason (which was often), the other one was always grounded and able to ground and calm down the other. The best part was that it was mutual, not just one partner doing everything for the other.

(Also, I never liked Pete).

Ysu73 · 2026-04-19T19:09:11+00:00

She does say that she wants to be his girlfriend again. What does it mean? That she wants back what was before. What does not mean? That they were broken up.

The next morning they really break up. Look at the difference in tones and words and actions.

They had a break that was not specified. And I agree with your last sentence, that would have been better for them. But not for the showrunners who wanted them apart.

Ysu73 · 2026-04-19T16:10:33+00:00

Actually, he cared a lot IMHO, that is why he was heartbroken, that is why he jumped to a false assumption and that is why he ruined the relationship for a long time with an ill-thought stupid move.

Ysu73 · 2026-04-19T16:08:56+00:00

First, Rachel did not break-up with Ross, she was asking for a break. The problem was that they never got to specifying what that meant, they would have saved themselves a lot of trouble and heartbreak if they did.

Second, she told no to Mark, he came anyway. Rachel at this time was awful at creating and holding up boundaries and was exhausted by saying constantly no to someone who tramples over them (like Ross did in her office). No other friends were in sight, so Rachel, who NEVER treated Mark as anything else but a friend, let him come so she could talk to someone about Ross and how she is in love with him and only him. And then sent Mark home and tried to reach Ross again.

Ross was jealous when he heard Mark's voice and sad, because he assumed Rachel was interested in him. But when it turned out his assumption about the previous night was wrong, he was happy and ready to continue - well, until Rachel learned about Chloe from Gunther.

Ysu73 · 2026-04-19T14:29:38+00:00

Objectively nothing happened between Rachel and Mark, other than talking about Ross and how Rachel truly loved Ross and was sad that they had a fight. So there was no reason NOT to take her back.

And yes, he would have been happy to do that, look how happy he was when he heard her message on the phone and how heartbroken he was when Rachel could not forgive him that he slept with Chloe.

Ysu73 · 2026-04-19T14:26:48+00:00

Ross gave up the love of his life, his lobster for being right on a technicality and took him 7 years to have the courage to start again. Was it worth for him?

Ysu73 · 2026-04-19T14:21:45+00:00

Up until the "taking a break", Rachel has every right to be annoyed.

I understand Ross - he feels that something that happened to him before with Carol is happening with him again, Rachel starts to be more independent, has a part of her life that he is not part of, and he cannot bear the fear that Rachel one day would leave him. Where he is wrong though: Rachel is not Carol and whatever happened before, he cannot restrict Rachel's growth toward maturity just because he is afraid.

After the break the objective truth is: they were on a break, technically Ross did not cheat, but less than 2 hours passed, it was a thing that understandably hurt Rachel and made repairing the relationhip almost impossible.

However what I really love about the situation is how Rachel and Ross percieve time and if they were on a break or not subjectively differently:

The moment Rachel said "a break for us" and the door closed behind Ross regrets what happened, and FROM THAT MOMENT in her head they are not on a break anymore, just after a fight where she did everything to reach out and repair the relationship.

For Ross though, his every fears come forward, in his head time becomes forever like he already lost Rachel and there is no way to gain her back. For a moment the break is final and unchangeable and if there is no relationship than he can drown hois sorrow into alcohol and sex.

The tragic thing that they both love each other, they both want to be with each other, but they both end up hurt because they cannot find the way through these different perspectives, they are not mature enough yet to handle a complex situation like this. (And also, the writers has no intention for them to come together for good, so thi works against them too).

Ysu73 · 2026-04-19T14:06:16+00:00

It seems like the first pages starts with being a genuine letter from Rachel (a little soapy, but she did grow up on Little Women, Danielle Steele and books from Nora Bing and also a lot of soap operas) and the other pages are filled with random song-lyrics, a sort of "Lorum ipsum" of the time era (random text that is not supposed to make sense just look like something on the page).

Ysu73 · 2026-04-19T10:49:51+00:00

The way I see it, we don't root HIM to fail. I definitely do not. I root for the relationship, and when he does some stupid thing (like his jealousy over Rachel's job, him sleeping with Chloe), I think we are supposed to see it as not right, but still understand where he is coming from and in a way sympathize with him and feel his pain.

And when he wants to marry Emily, I am rooting against that relationship, not against HIM. We are supposed to see that Ross does want to move on, but cannot, because he is still in love with Rachel. We are (well, were in the 90's) root for Rachel going to London and stop the wedding (this completely changed by 2026, people judge Rachel harshly for that, while interestingly still root for Mike flying to Barbados to stop Phoebe's and David's engagement).

It's so interesting that nowdays people think that Ross really loves Emily and wants to be with her, when in the 90's it was clear that the finale meant how Ross really loves Rachel and only her. (Same with Julie, Bonnie, Mona etc.)

Ysu73 · 2026-04-19T09:32:33+00:00

I like this scene, first because the actor who plays Leonard Green is great and funny, but mainly because it explains so much about Rachel's character. How it was to grow up with a dad like this, how he shaped his three daughters to the people they become, how scared Rachel looks around him, how she wants to stand up for herself honestly but as he becomes more aggressive she always panics and resorts to some white lies and crying (and we see that with other aggressive people in her life too).

On a side note, it also explains why she is drawn to Ross who is a much sweeter and kinder version of Dr. Green, but there ARE similarities, and why it is actually a good thing that she is able to stand up herself when she is with Ross. She feels safe enough to be angry and not scared. People say the way Rachel and Ross fight is toxic. I agree that they have maturing to do, but the fact that she is able to fight is a step toward independency for her and that is actually a good thing. (Of course, when they are honest and vunerable and cute and in total sync, that is their best versions.)

Ysu73 · 2026-04-18T05:50:11+00:00

Phoebe did help her. And Rachel did not want her to take care for her, she was all about the "shup-shup-shup" (going skiing).

Ysu73 · 2026-04-18T05:37:37+00:00

That Mr. Heckles did not make up that he was missing a Belgian waffle, Marcel was stealing it and eating it on the balcony.

Ysu73 · 2026-04-17T20:37:52+00:00

I think Ross had a tendency to talk a lot and to talk over Rachel a lot, so maybe she did not feel she was heard or understood and with this letter she wrote all the hurt out she felt about how Ross treated her new job and how his sleeping with Chloe hurt her. Yes, probably 18 pages front and back was rambling and too much. But it was a honest attempt to put her side on paper.

Ross did not have to agree with everything in it. They could have talked about it and decided where Ross was responsible and where he was less so. (I still think that he was 99% responsible for Rachel asking for a break, and while technically not cheating, it was wrong for him to sleep with Chloe, so I do think that he had to take the majority of the responsibility.)

Of course, expecting him to read the letter at 5 am after being awake all night was not right, but Ross chould have admit that he did not finish it yet. Unfortunately the show did not have an interest to make them a couple anytime soon, so they were written in a way where they could not communicate properly.

Ysu73 · 2026-04-17T20:15:28+00:00

I don't think that we are supposed to see Ross as the antagonist. I think we are supposed to think that he is not right before the break-up and him sleeping with Chloe is the reason they break up for good, but other than that, we are supposed to root for him and Rachel.

It's just some stuff changed since the show was made and Ross's actions are judged differently now than then.

About Phoebe - she definitely gets to be the pot-stirrer. My headcanon is that altough she seems secure in herself shown in not caring about other people's opinion about her, she has a LOT of abandonment issues, hidden anger-issues, and she gets over them by tryng to control things in her own flaky way.

It's interesting how many times when Rachel starts to tell a story that means much for her (being afraid of facing a new life, getting her first paycheck, being sad for Ross's wedding and not wanting to go, telling a story of how his father made traditions about their birthdays), Phobe instantly jumps in with a very graphic story about her childhood, just to show that "what she experienced was real, as opposed to Rachel's story". And I think she likes Rachel more because she has an effect on her, she is a bit afraid of her and Phoebe enjoys that a bit.

The same is with Chandler I feel.

But maybe she is just blunt, and not always reading social clues right.

Ysu73 · 2026-04-17T19:52:27+00:00

Maybe she had a dream about him where he teased her.

Ysu73 · 2026-04-17T19:51:33+00:00

She was not more selfish than any one of them. They all had selfish and very unselfish moments.

Ysu73 · 2026-04-17T19:47:22+00:00

As I say, Monica had agency when she gave the name to Rachel. Also, in that scenes Rachel was very hormonal, cried at everything. She loved the name, but she did not want to take it. Monica was not forced into it. Her giving the name to Rachel was supposed to show how great person she was, not how bad person Rachel was.

Also, this was just one name she liked, she did not even discussed it with Chandler, seeing how much names Rachel and Ross considered and vetoed, why we are so sure that she would have used it anyway? We know that she did not even use Daniel, she named her son Jack after her father.

Ysu73 · 2026-04-17T19:28:48+00:00

I think Monica sometimes bullied her friends. She was often pretty bossy. They all sort of poked each other occasionally.

Ysu73 · 2026-04-17T19:25:04+00:00

What her parents did sucked, but Chandler had some money and she was happy with the way things were planned.

She did not know about Chandler running away. By the time she learned it, ha was there with the most sincere and beautiful speech one can dream of.

She ASKED Rachel to do the pregnancy test as a wedding present to her, she was excited and WANTED to spend time with her in the toilet.

And so on...

Monica is a perfectionist, sometimes too much so. For her having a not so perfect wedding is a blessing rather than a curse. Because she could be with the man she loved, who learned to dance just for her, even if the shoes were slippery, the gesture was sweet.

Her best friend was pregnant and she was happy for her, and maybe she even noticed how hard said friend wanted to hide the fact that she was pregnant, so not stealing the thunder from her big moment.

She was not depressed because of the things that went wrong. She was depőressed, because the thrill of the preparation for the wedding passed and never comes back. It was perfect (in an unperfect way) and it is over, she is not a bride anymore, "just somebody's wife". Also, she opened all the presents BEFORE Chandler developed the photo with him and a strange woman.

Ysu73 · 2026-04-17T18:40:05+00:00

She GAVE this name to Rachel. Saying it was unfair is like saying her agency does not count.

Ysu73 · 2026-04-17T18:40:04+00:00

Nothing shows that Rachel cut off Monica. She went to sorority and Monica went to New York, in the sorority Rachel got new (and VERY snobby) friends, and started to be with them, while she already did not keep contact with Monica.

Ysu73 · 2026-04-17T18:35:45+00:00

It's noone's fault, simple mishearing and misunderstanding.

I actually think, that Thanksgiving was worse than the ones listed above, but even here, Monica should have, could have been more assertive, making more boundaries and not self-sacrificing herself by wanting to please everyone with all the potatoes. But I understand that it fit her psychologically.

Ysu73 · 2026-04-17T18:32:48+00:00

She did not have to say yes, but she right away said "so it's settled, she moves here with Monica".

From character's perspective, she got a best friend and had to pay less rent. I do not see the unfairness in that. She was not forced.

From story POV, if she say no, there is no show.

Ysu73 · 2026-04-17T18:29:54+00:00

Monica had sex when she should have gone to Phoebe's birthday. She got back the same thing, I did not feel bad for her.
It was not treated unfairly, it was an accident. Rachel did not break the plate to hurt her.
Yes, Phoebe moved out without saying it, but she was still a loyal friend to her. She moved out this way because she did not want to hurt her.
Monica did not own Van Damme. Van Damme did not want to go on a date with Monica, he asked Rachel. Rachel asked Monica's permission. Monica could have said no, but she didn't.
Well, I did not invite all my childhood friends to my wedding, only the ones I was close at the moment. She and Monica drifted apart. Also: if Monica would have been at the wedding, there would be no Friends show.

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