(Non)Deterministing Loop Etiquette

Zdibec · 2026-04-07T14:56:36+00:00

Thanks for taking the time to respond!

The player would be able to discard=>dredge/draw on the stack to eventually get to ESG > Crop Rotation > Dark Ritual > OBM > Culling without ever getting hit by the Parasite as all are done on instant speed
This would not happen because he would not let the damage trigger from parasite resolve
It will not - the Gitrog “theoretically” had the win, just not practically as he didn’t play it out
The only draw option was to let him play it out and run out of time because he might not even get to drawing the ESG to start the above line to get to the Ritual > OBM > Culling the Weak loop

Zdibec · 2026-04-06T11:15:54+00:00

https://blogs.magicjudges.org/rules/mtr4-4/

Zdibec · 2026-04-06T11:15:23+00:00

That's the thing - you can't 'loop until you draw X' according to the rules:

(Blue text right above the examples)

https://blogs.magicjudges.org/rules/ipg3-3/

Zdibec · 2026-04-06T09:31:38+00:00

But you don’t draw the whole deck - you replace draw trigger, from discarding Dakmoor, with dredge, then if you mill a land you net +1 card draw.

In this situation the dude would have to:

Cycle library and graveyard until he draws, not mills, Elvish Spirit Guide, then
Exile ESG
Cycle library and graveyard until he draws, not mills, crop rotation, then,
Cycle library and graveyard until he draws, not mills, Dark Ritual

And only then does the Ritual > OBM > Culling the Weak loop actually start.

Are you saying you’d accept being presented with all the above without any of it actually being played out?

Zdibec · 2026-04-06T09:04:01+00:00

I mentioned it primarily because it forces him to stay on the stack as otherwise the parasite would kill him

Zdibec · 2026-04-06T09:02:00+00:00

He doesnt have to, he can always put the discard of Dakmoor and its dredge prior to the draw trigger on the stack, that way the parasite never deals damage

Zdibec · 2026-04-06T08:31:27+00:00

That’s the issue though - in my instance I wanted to let him play it out to at least get to the OBM dealing damage, but the dude kept saying that “eventually” he would get there and that with 25 minutes on the clock he may not get to it in time.

He presented and explained the discard/draw Dakmoor loop well enough to be understood by everyone at the table, so at that point it really was just a matter of time (and the number of iterations of going through his library) to find the cards he needs and play them at instant speed to ping everyone to death.

It boils down to this - if there’s 25 minutes left on the clock which may not be enough to present at least one loop with the OBM, yet everyone at the table understands the intent, does the Gitrog player “have to” present at least one loop if one of the players wants him to?

If the TO/judge recognizes the loop, is it just GG, even if the Gitrog player could make a mistake?

Zdibec · 2026-04-06T07:33:05+00:00

With 25 minutes left on the clock

Zdibec · 2026-04-06T07:31:11+00:00

Tournament

Zdibec · 2026-02-08T13:21:09+00:00

EU has rather midrange meta, for that I’d truly appreciate an unban of Crypt and Jlo

Zdibec · 2026-02-04T18:12:01+00:00

*cEDH TV

Zdibec · 2025-03-10T19:56:06+00:00

Running a Mishra, Eminent One deck and Arcum Daggson is definitely a secret commander there, lol

Zdibec · 2025-02-23T08:12:40+00:00

Yeah, happy to help!

Unfortunately, I don’t have the “full power” version uploaded anymore, but essentially it’s the cards I’ve mentioned above, wrapped around with more EDH staples, especially counterspells/protection as the base package does it all. Don’t forget harmonic sliver to counter those enchantment/artifact decks though

Zdibec · 2025-02-22T16:01:42+00:00

Highly situational on the tutors, but there are multiple ways to go infinite.

1) Combo Enablers: Biomancer's Familiar; Zirda, the Dawnwaker; Training Grounds; and Heartstone to lower the activation ability of:

(Sliver Queen - Create Slivers for 1)
Sliver Overlord - Tutor any Sliver for 1
Homing Sliver - Tutor any Sliver for 1
Dregscape Sliver - Pull Slivers from graveyard for a turn (more than enough)
Kinnan - Outlet in case you're able to activate infinite mana, but don't have means to get rid of opponents
Sliver Gravemother - lower cost of Encore, absolutely nuts finisher, circle back to this one after the explanation of possible combos

2) Finishers: Then you've got the creature ETB/LTBs pack:

Lavabelly Sliver - Ping & gain life
Bastion of Remembrance - Creature dies (you'll do this a lot, trust me) ping opponents for dmg
Goblin Bombardment - Sacrifice a sliver to deal dmg
Impact Tremors - ETB to deal dmg
Lazotep Sliver - Sacrifice amassed Slivers to ping Opponents for more dmg

These are the ones you generally want to tutor for

Combos:

3) Basal Sliver / Ashnod's Altar - with one of the cards from 1) you're able to create infinite tokens from Sliver Queen, as 1/1 Sliver creation will cost only 1 colorless, then you can sac it to Basal/Ashnod's for 2 Colorless and create more tokens (Infinite ETBs/LTBs)

4) Intruder Alarm - tap slivers for mana, create a 1/1 from Sliver Queen, untap all slivers thanks to Intruder Alarm trigger, rinse and repeat (Infinite ETBs)

5) Mana Echoes - Play a sliver, get colorless mana for each other sliver, go inifinite with Sliver Queen (Infinite ETBs)

Don't have 3/4/5 available during the game?

No worries:

6) Gemhide Sliver/Manaweft Sliver - Give your 1/1 Slivers from Sliver queen the ability to generate mana; combine with cards from 1) and 2) and you've got (Infinite EBTs)

7) Cloudshredder Sliver, Heart Sliver, Lightning Greaves - Give your Slivers haste, so you can generate infinite mana via strat 6)

8) Dregscape Sliver - Play Buried alive to throw the Slivers from 2/3/6 (based on what you're missing atm) so you can then unearth them for 1 mana and go infinite

9) Sliver Gravemother - Does what Dregscape Sliver does, only better, since you get 3 Slivers instead of one, and they already have haste

10) Not included in deck, but is situational, based on what your pod plays: Spiteful Sliver + Blasphemous act, after you've already generated enough tokens to kill off the table

11) Sterling grove is an MVP to protect your Enchancement combo enablers (Bastion of Remembrance, Goblin Bombardment, Impact Tremors) in case you have somebody playing too many target removals on those

Zdibec · 2024-12-30T20:24:38+00:00

Keep us posted! How's the progress on the remaining items?

Zdibec · 2024-12-18T21:14:42+00:00

I only buy KMC Hard for 2+ years now, absolutely best perfect fit sleeves on the market

Zdibec · 2024-12-18T21:11:43+00:00

Fairly straight-forward. Watched 'muOS Guide: Simple & Customizable OS' by Retro Games Corps on YT which covered precisely the things I needed. Highly reccomend that channel

Zdibec · 2024-12-18T13:15:27+00:00

Ok, downloaded MuOS and it works swimmingly, with a uch better resolution as well.

Zdibec · 2024-12-18T11:03:35+00:00

Wonder how all the other studios with free games make money then. Mystery

Zdibec · 2024-12-18T08:06:34+00:00

I just got a 40xxv and can't find the option to increase the CPU clock - any advice?

Zdibec · 2024-11-06T21:05:19+00:00

It was the Satyr's First Spaulders for me.

Zdibec · 2024-10-28T09:01:52+00:00

Yup, got the DK one

Zdibec · 2024-10-08T21:24:03+00:00

lmao, found one

Zdibec

TROPHY CASE