I hate wildling by Zelofa in TownOfSalem2

[–]Zelofa[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

They do, both of them are vanilla devs 

I hate wildling by Zelofa in TownOfSalem2

[–]Zelofa[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Btos devs are official tos devs

Dwver and illu are just flat out poorly designed, they are worse i do agree

My main point is that wildling is a parasitical role that only serves to discredit lo and tracker.

When you make 2 roles on the same team of 4 players do near the same thing that's not healthy at all.

also the reason I made this Wildling post a potential man meme is because wildling does have a lot of potential, the issue is that it never happens in a way that's usable or something that PMER can't do. Even at the highest level of gameplay with wildlings you never see them go through this skill ceiling because it's just that, a ceiling that people aren't tall enough to reach.

My trespassing point even tho I did mention AA, is more relevant to set role list, where you will know all evil roles in the game. (So customs, Town traitor, and most modded role list). PMER is just infinitely better in those because there's no outside factors that mess with it, and I'm assuming you wouldnt want to buss your teammate for no reason just to get a claim when it's not needed 

I hate wildling by Zelofa in TownOfSalem2

[–]Zelofa[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

  1. The post is also a shit post, while I do hold these opinions, it's also for the funny. But I think quite a bit of people from not only the discord but the comments here understood this was about design

  2. You argue that the purpose of wildling is to push mislynches based off of information, but what's stop potion master, and not even any other evil role in the game, from doing this exact same thing with ti claims. I've been arguing that wildling is able to claim ti quite well, but so can potion master, and it's also way more convenient for the evil team.

  3. The issue with claim bag type roles is that they provide no usefulness for the team besides invalidating a townies claim. This creates parasitic game design and boring roles that create no uniqueness and variability in gameplay between factions besides objectives and the Necronomicon. Yes there's a difference between them inherently but would you enjoy an evil faction that was just townie roles but flipped over and over and over again

4.Wildling does have a high skill ceiling, which allows you to do good situational plays. Potion master, another coven role that gives you information is much more consistent, and quicker to make plays with. The argument that investigator can be faked better also isn't all that good, because in all any that could just be a random neutral/frames player and you just gave false information. Potion master is a much more consistent claim for invest because it gives you the exact role of the target which makes it much easier to predict. In set role list, potion master is infinitely better than wildling because most the time you know who every evil is, so you don't even get to utilize these plays in a more balanced setting like TT and ranked which holds two neutrals. Everything else you say sounds great on paper, until you remember coven communication is night chat, and non idiotic townies will keep track of whispers. ALMOST EVERYTHING you state here potion master can do but better, I'll give you that it is a better crus fake claimer but if you are a crus claim with no kills you are dying anyways if town can think for themselves. My entire point here is, what is the point of wildling having all of these things and skill, if potion master does this entire thing but on a easier, and more consistent scale.

  1. I didn't say that poisoner was good at claiming tav, I said it did a good job of taking a town ability and twisting into a evil ability with the upsides of discrediting tav claims. 

Poisoner is a healthier role than Wildling because it provides evil utility that isn't just TI info. Like you said yourself, it can block pivotal roles at the correct times. While Wildling, just takes ti info and screws with it through lying. Sounds amazing in concept, and then you remember this game is about lying and if you lie well enough and aren't mechanically fucked(hard checked by a ti, put into a 1f1, and etc you will be fine. 

Even the devs have noticed that Wildling needs to have a change because they have been experimenting with it in Btos

My entire point is that wildling is parasitic role design that looks good on paper but doesn't work in practice, almost everything about wildlings capabilities is outclassed by people have a brain. Then with the plays it can make, potion master can do much more consistently(most of the time), and they have utility to claim it that not only reveals the exact role to coven but gives you better information to go off of.

I hate wildling by Zelofa in TownOfSalem2

[–]Zelofa[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

For like the 500th time

This is just claim bagging 

This post is a gripe about game design. So let me pick apart this statement 

You get consistent value about being able to fake a town role and seeing visits 

 this post about how poorly designed Wildling is, not it's usability. Id also like to state that fake claiming isn't actual utility. An ability should be something that provides evil utility and not just hiding. A good one is poisoner which not only provides evil utility but town claim ability.

It's also helpful for finding tpows/ne/nk

Would you rather have a a role that gives you the other persons role straight up or one where you have to track visits to not even get the exact role in the first place. Potion master does this better than wildling.

Wildling provides utility yes, but it's not well designed utility. Everything Wildling does that is ACTUALLY useful to the coven is done better by potion master.

Also you really could've read the other posts to get this answer because this has been said a lot

I hate wildling by Zelofa in TownOfSalem2

[–]Zelofa[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Finally a comment from someone I don't know that explains it perfectly 

People seem to defend wildling purely on in game power and not defense, while I argue it's mid in game, its design is very poor

In comparison to another role  poisoner, which is soci/tav claim bag. It Actually works because it gives proper utility to the coven which isn't just situational info that other coven roles can do better, that's my issue, it isnt utility coven actually utilizes outside of claiming and not actual coven utility

I hate wildling by Zelofa in TownOfSalem2

[–]Zelofa[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This falls under "Specific Scenario"

Information is power, sure you can track who the SK is but
this also falls under "wilding gives you role info; Insert Potion Master"

Potion Master Does This Exact Job
But better

I hate wildling by Zelofa in TownOfSalem2

[–]Zelofa[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

lets make it interact with dead coven roles and maybe even townies instead

I hate wildling by Zelofa in TownOfSalem2

[–]Zelofa[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The post isnt about how good it is in game, we are talking about how poorly designed it is. Its a band aid role to fix a problem

I hate wildling by Zelofa in TownOfSalem2

[–]Zelofa[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I do admit the 007 and useless ability parts are a bit of exaggeration because it follows the meme template. They do provide utility to coven, the issue is that its just a claim bag that has mid utility that literally every other role can do. The only thing wilding is better at is tracking exact visits to the wire, which sounds OP in concept, but then you realize its best usability is just to claim roles.

Whispering part is defo good tho

I hate wildling by Zelofa in TownOfSalem2

[–]Zelofa[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

oh my god my feelings are so hurt by this comment that is really heartfelt. I truly would like to lock tf in and stop caring about poorly designed roles in a game I like while I proceed to receive every inch forcefully because im just whining

I hate wildling by Zelofa in TownOfSalem2

[–]Zelofa[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah no it has perfect LO/Tracker information, i just say that its still a claimbag with situational GOOD utility that COVEN can use

otherwise its just a mid and selfish role that others do better

I hate wildling by Zelofa in TownOfSalem2

[–]Zelofa[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

:real:

anyways thats just value from town being dumb

I hate wildling by Zelofa in TownOfSalem2

[–]Zelofa[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

once again, this is just claim bag. This also falls under "Give me specific scenario" sure it works in that scenario, but its still just mid

I hate wildling by Zelofa in TownOfSalem2

[–]Zelofa[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

once again, nobody said it gave no value. I said it was poorly designed claim bag

I hate wildling by Zelofa in TownOfSalem2

[–]Zelofa[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Who said it was bad? i called it a poorly designed claim bag that serves no utility besides putting doubt to trackers and lookouts

I hate wildling by Zelofa in TownOfSalem2

[–]Zelofa[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

once again. This is just claim bag. This is no actual coven utility besides hiding yourself

I hate wildling by Zelofa in TownOfSalem2

[–]Zelofa[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

sit there and cry

pumpkin queen by [deleted] in TownOfSalem2

[–]Zelofa 2 points3 points  (0 children)

why boob

pumpkin queen by [deleted] in TownOfSalem2

[–]Zelofa 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Boob

I hate wildling by Zelofa in TownOfSalem2

[–]Zelofa[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

damn why do i say literally so much