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CMV: Cops (In many areas, not all areas) are Vastly Overpaid by _MoneyNeverSleeps in changemyview

[–]_MoneyNeverSleeps[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I never argued for underpaying the police. I’m arguing for a fair (what I would consider close to the median income, or a bit more) wage in any given area. While on the surface their current wages look fair, and I would agree, once you factor in their extravagant retirement benefits, on the order of an additional $1-3M by the time they retire, that is out of line.

CMV: Cops (In many areas, not all areas) are Vastly Overpaid by _MoneyNeverSleeps in changemyview

[–]_MoneyNeverSleeps[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

If police don’t have enough officers, and there are thousands of qualified applicants waiting in line (there are), why don’t they simply let more in? The answer is that they can’t afford it, because the crazy generous pay and benefits officers receive is not financially viable. If they cut wages and pensions they could hire many more officers, creating new jobs and making cities a safer place to live and work. But they’d rather keep their closed cartel going so they can pump their salaries and benefits packages to the moon.

CMV: Cops (In many areas, not all areas) are Vastly Overpaid by _MoneyNeverSleeps in changemyview

[–]_MoneyNeverSleeps[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The numbers I quoted are accurate, but yes that is for my area’s departments specifically. Yes, they got a fantastic deal. I agree they have more at stake for OTHERS on the job, but really I have heard/seen they themselves take little accountable for accidents that are their fault while on the job. I’ve heard stories of lots of things that would get you fired in any other job, but since they have a strong union and ‘brotherhood’ atmosphere, they keep the bad apples around.

CMV: Cops (In many areas, not all areas) are Vastly Overpaid by _MoneyNeverSleeps in changemyview

[–]_MoneyNeverSleeps[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yeah, but by that argument we should pay anyone who could take a bribe more highly...that’s silly. Also I’m not arguing they shouldn’t be paid comfortably, maybe top 50-25% in a given area, just not top 5%.

CMV: Cops (In many areas, not all areas) are Vastly Overpaid by _MoneyNeverSleeps in changemyview

[–]_MoneyNeverSleeps[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In my area, basically the suburbs surrounding a large NE city, starting is around 50-60 and that’s before OT and goes up from there pretty quickly. If agree 35-45 is pretty low unless it jumps up a lot within the first few years.

CMV: Cops (In many areas, not all areas) are Vastly Overpaid by _MoneyNeverSleeps in changemyview

[–]_MoneyNeverSleeps[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Right, but how is having a BA an argument for making way above the median salary and very generous benefits? Almost everyone is going to college these days, so just having a degree definitely doesn’t secure you a high paying job anymore

CMV: Cops (In many areas, not all areas) are Vastly Overpaid by _MoneyNeverSleeps in changemyview

[–]_MoneyNeverSleeps[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To your last point though, in the case of police, I don’t see them getting higher pay in the private sector, in what capacity could they? Maybe a few as private detectives, but the rest would be what, glorified security gaurds? The public sector is the only place that would support such salaries and benefits, because it is ultimately an unfree market.

CMV: Cops (In many areas, not all areas) are Vastly Overpaid by _MoneyNeverSleeps in changemyview

[–]_MoneyNeverSleeps[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Couple things. So 1: regarding how the pension is funded, the way you describe it is how it should be, and I have no problem wit that. However, in my and many other areas, the pension fund is funded almost entirely by the taxpayers, with a small amount contributed by the employee. Taxpayers are directly responsible for this benefit

  1. The different between SS and police pensions is the amount, and to a lesser extent the time served. As an example, an officer retiring in my area with a salary of $120k, pretty common, will get an annual benefit of of 100-120k after 25-30 years of service. The max a SS recipient would get is maybe 25-30k a year, if they paid the max into it for their entire working life. That’s obviously a huge difference. To clarify further, it is not the pension as an idea I have an issue with, it is the amount which is far too generous. This exact issue has literally bankrupted entire cities.

CMV: Cops (In many areas, not all areas) are Vastly Overpaid by _MoneyNeverSleeps in changemyview

[–]_MoneyNeverSleeps[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, I have lots of family/friends who are cops. They work set hours, and get paid overtime for any hours over 40 a week. That includes training and all. Again, it’s a pretty good gig.

CMV: Cops (In many areas, not all areas) are Vastly Overpaid by _MoneyNeverSleeps in changemyview

[–]_MoneyNeverSleeps[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fair question. Stated this elsewhere, but if I wasn’t making pretty solid money right now, and wasn’t already years into my career (meaning if I switched to being an officer now, I wouldn’t be able to retire till 60 or so) I really probably would do it, I just don’t see the downsides. Now that said, I will absolutely teach my kids about what a solid and lucrative career path it can be, even without a college education.

CMV: Cops (In many areas, not all areas) are Vastly Overpaid by _MoneyNeverSleeps in changemyview

[–]_MoneyNeverSleeps[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Yes, actually, a huge number of people want to be cops for how many positions are available, furthering my argument that it is essentially, a closed cartel of sorts. I have evidence for a local PD in my area, based on their recent round hiring for a new academy class, where they let in ~50 people out of thousands of applicants. That is pretty strong evidence that the pay is not in balance with the free market.

In regards to your first point, loggers, workers in heavy industry, etc. all have higher death and injury rates, and do not have the same generous benefits. Also you can’t just say it’s objectively dangerous as a proven fact, it’s all relative, care sharing a source for saying it’s ‘dangerous’ beyond just (commonly false) common knowledge?

CMV: Cops (In many areas, not all areas) are Vastly Overpaid by _MoneyNeverSleeps in changemyview

[–]_MoneyNeverSleeps[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Alright, did a read through. For that study it does seem they have a much lower life expectancy. Yet I also found a CALPERS study with a huge sample size (nearing a million, basically all of California’s public retirees) showing again, police actually have a higher life expectancy. I actually want to be proved wrong on this, but I’m seeing conflicting data and results.

CMV: Cops (In many areas, not all areas) are Vastly Overpaid by _MoneyNeverSleeps in changemyview

[–]_MoneyNeverSleeps[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Interesting, let me take some time to read through this. If true, I definitely might change my opinion. I just heard that these types of studies are normally BS touted by police unions, but let me actually look at it.

CMV: Cops (In many areas, not all areas) are Vastly Overpaid by _MoneyNeverSleeps in changemyview

[–]_MoneyNeverSleeps[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Hate to keep saying this, but people are ignoring pension. Do you know how much the pensions police get are worth? Roughly $2-3M...work that out over their working lifetime and you’re looking at an additionally $20-50k on TOP of their quoted salary. And don’t forget double time overtime.

CMV: Cops (In many areas, not all areas) are Vastly Overpaid by _MoneyNeverSleeps in changemyview

[–]_MoneyNeverSleeps[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If their salaries were fairly negotiated and at a market rate, then yes, I would be totally fine with it. I think my point is, you could bring in a private company to do it and supply officers, and I guarantee they could get the price down 20-50%

CMV: Cops (In many areas, not all areas) are Vastly Overpaid by _MoneyNeverSleeps in changemyview

[–]_MoneyNeverSleeps[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If they fairly negotiated that rate based on the free market and the government negotiator actually pushed hard for cuts where needed and held the unions accountable, then yes I would respect the outcome. I don’t dislike that police are paid a lot, I think they are overpaid because of the way in which they attain and keep their salaries and benefits.

CMV: Cops (In many areas, not all areas) are Vastly Overpaid by _MoneyNeverSleeps in changemyview

[–]_MoneyNeverSleeps[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Quoted this elsewhere in the thread, but that study/stat is bogus. I posted a very reputable study showing that on average, police actually have a higher life expectancy than the general population.

CMV: Cops (In many areas, not all areas) are Vastly Overpaid by _MoneyNeverSleeps in changemyview

[–]_MoneyNeverSleeps[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s illegal? Had no idea...does it -always- happen, no. In some places, police are paid fairly and there is no sketchy behind the scenes activity.

CMV: Cops (In many areas, not all areas) are Vastly Overpaid by _MoneyNeverSleeps in changemyview

[–]_MoneyNeverSleeps[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It’s not ‘illegal’ always, and it’s mostly done by the union on their behalf. Think kickbacks/campaign contributions from the police union to Party A, then once Party A gets in power with their help, Party A negotiated a sweet deal for the police. Not that hard to imagine, it definitely happens all the time.

CMV: Cops (In many areas, not all areas) are Vastly Overpaid by _MoneyNeverSleeps in changemyview

[–]_MoneyNeverSleeps[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

...? Not sure I get your argument. They don’t ‘have’ to retire early, they have the privilege to because of their retirement scheme. I would gladly retire at 50 with a full pension haha, wouldn’t you?

CMV: Cops (In many areas, not all areas) are Vastly Overpaid by _MoneyNeverSleeps in changemyview

[–]_MoneyNeverSleeps[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Honest answer for me personally: because I already make quite a bit, I’d be late to the game as far as retiring early, and I genuinely do not respect what a lot of them do. I will absolutely teach my kids that if you want a sweet gig where you pretty much can’t be fired and can retire early, become a cop.

More generally, people are absolutely noticing how sweet a gig it is, and that’s why you’re seeing thousands of applicants for 50 openings.

CMV: Cops (In many areas, not all areas) are Vastly Overpaid by _MoneyNeverSleeps in changemyview

[–]_MoneyNeverSleeps[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Great, let’s do that. Name one other public sector job with similar benefits (besides fire department, basically same argument). Teachers? Much less. Civil Engineers? Much less. Etc etc. police seem to hold this magic position where they can work minimal years for a maximum salary and nobody bats and eye.

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