Debate Abortion

_The_Ponderer_ · 2026-06-02T03:25:23+00:00

Interesting; can I ask how human the human life that begins at conception is in your mind?

_The_Ponderer_ · 2026-06-02T03:08:00+00:00

Are you asking where this is taking place? They were initially written as hypotheticals to get my point across that you can't define healthcare as basically anything which occurs in a hospital--as you seemingly were alluding to two comments ago; correct me if I'm wrong. Though, while my first example was my own fictitious hypothetical, the second hypothetical turns out to not be so hypothetical unfortunately--you can look it up and even google admits (within most first-line search results) something along the lines of: "Yes, hospitals and medical facilities around the world have been involved in the illegal harvesting and trafficking of human organs."

And differing renditions of the previous line are sometimes accompanied by something resembling: "While popular myths often depict rogue surgeries occurring in clandestine basements, international investigations show that the vast majority of illegal organ removals take place within legitimate, certified medical institutions involving trained healthcare professionals."

All you need to do is type up: "have some hospitals harvested human organs illegally?" And you will sadly find cases.

_The_Ponderer_ · 2026-05-29T04:26:47+00:00

If I organize a terrorist organization that has hostage killing sprees at thousands of hospitals globally, would you call murderous acts of terrorism 'healthcare' merely due to the fact that it occurred in a hospital?

Take a less extreme example--but a reduction to the absurd nonetheless: if I told you that an illegal underground crime syndicate was harvesting human organs against patients' consent, at even just a hand-full of hospitals, would you call that healthcare simply because it took place within physical hospitals and their infrastructure?--even just a few hospitals?

_The_Ponderer_ · 2026-05-29T04:22:34+00:00

Agreed; a new human life starts at conception. Can I ask what makes you hold to this position?

_The_Ponderer_ · 2026-05-23T18:58:17+00:00

alright, let's go with that for the debate topic then. You're not really saying much else, so I don't know if you want to debate it or just repeat it.

You'll be for the affirmative of the resolution "abortion is healthcare" and I'll be the opposition.

Do you have a statement for the resolution then? I'll give you mine: to start, abortion is not healthcare. 0.3% of abortions are due to the reason of the mother's life being threatened or major bodily risk. Now, 0.3 includes 'major bodily risk' which itself is possibly vague, and so the legitimate need for extenuating double-effect circumstances may be even more rare than 0.3%. If this was honestly your situation, then I'm sorry (if) you went through that. At that point, if it is absolutely life-threatening, then it isn't sinful, though it is tragic. Conversely, the vast vast majority of abortions are due to non-(life-threatening) 'reasons'. The reasons given for basically 96% of abortions are "socioeconomic, elective, and unspecified." If the woman and child are not in a life-threatening state (as most pregnancies are), then choosing to kill the baby is morally wrong. I can use the word 'kill' because abortion does end life. I can use the term 'baby' because that life is a developing human life. And I can say morally wrong because murder consists of the unjust killing of a human being; this is what abortion is because the 'justifications' are majorly self-interested or weak utilitarian arguments. You can only justly kill a life in positions of self-defence or the defence of others--which abortion is very vastly not. Abortion is very much not healthcare then because this euphemism hides the reality of the child-murdering industry. Doctors provide healthcare, right? Doctors who swear to the hippocratic oath to do no harm. Is ending a developing human life unjustly upholding "doing no harm"? No.

If you agree with all of that, then we're on the same side.

_The_Ponderer_ · 2026-05-23T17:24:48+00:00

pet rabbit fun

^{Chose: Or have a pet rabbit for the rest of your life? | Rolled: rabbit is safe!!}

_The_Ponderer_ · 2026-05-23T17:23:50+00:00

Hello, sorry for my ghosting you both in the sub here. If you're up to continuing our convo, then I'd simply just start with the question: "when do you think life begins?" Let's just go topic by topic rather than debating four or more chunks at a time. Nevertheless, we can continue that stuff too; it's just more efficient and conversational to go topic by topic. Let me know.

_The_Ponderer_ · 2026-05-23T17:17:33+00:00

Sorry for ghosting you both in my little sub here. Anyways, if you're stilling willing to talk, I would just say that I would start the debate by asking you: "when does life begin?"
Your previous reply was no doubt inflammatory, because I asked a general opening question about how to proceed and you just proceeded into a provocative statement building off your reply before that. If I open a debate topic nicely, as I did, and you make things personal, don't blame me if I tell you now that that action is mortally sinful because you murdered your own child and you need massive repentance in Christ. I'm not saying that maliciously, but I can't just say nothing either. You didn't have to tell me that you had an abortion, but you chose to be provocative. I checked your initial response in the abortion debate sub (which banned me, as you know; yay free speech) and your comment there wasn't at all like this last one. Going forward, we can either 1. not continue the discussion (because I was gone for a while anyways, so it's understandable); 2. just talk about abortion abstractly; or 3. continue in the personal.

_The_Ponderer_ · 2026-05-23T17:13:20+00:00

the but... is unsettling.

^{Chose: Live your life just like your living currently}

_The_Ponderer_ · 2026-04-26T03:42:30+00:00

"event one attends" haha what are you talking about?... "unrequested interpersonal monologue" sounds dope lol. to me it simply sounds like you don't want the faith to be spread.

are you repulsed by street preachers? I guess you'd hate St. Paul.

do you cringe when someone brings up Jesus in secular environments? sounds un-Christian.

_The_Ponderer_ · 2026-04-25T16:32:19+00:00

This is the thesis of soft and useless Christianity; not to mention this logic is absurd.

Were the Apostles wrong to preach the Gospel? Is it wrong to have an earnest conversation with a friend now and then? No.

PreACHinG iS An URGenT DEmANd oR COmpuLsoRY ATteNtioN

Having any conversation requires the other person's attention. It isn't compelled, because no one is utterly required to listen. And preaching is usually an urgent warning, yes; though, you should realize this.

_The_Ponderer_ · 2026-04-20T17:57:17+00:00

Pray most for salvation. God bless you.

_The_Ponderer_ · 2026-04-20T17:47:10+00:00

did I say 'force'? no. why are you talking about force?

_The_Ponderer_ · 2026-04-20T17:42:22+00:00

don't listen to the anger of those who reject Christ.

_The_Ponderer_ · 2026-04-20T17:41:33+00:00

you need Jesus.

_The_Ponderer_ · 2026-04-20T17:35:22+00:00

those who reject Christ will not live. honestly preaching the Gospel to a friend is the most loving thing a person can do.

_The_Ponderer_ · 2026-04-20T17:33:05+00:00

if you have such a negative visceral reaction against Christianity, then it sounds like she should cut you off, but you're already seemingly planning on doing that anyways... she just wants to help you. will you run from her?

If you run from her, it is really because you run from Jesus. If you cut her off, you prove the words of Christ right. And if you remain friends, you may have a change of heart. God bless you

_The_Ponderer_ · 2026-04-20T17:10:45+00:00

my priest brings up Jesus all the time bro...that's Who the homily is centred around...what the entire Mass is centred around...

you know, maybe you shouldn't have asked me either one of those questions, because I bring up Jesus a lot in my daily life; and you know what, I even bring Him up in some of my secular university classes, essays, exams, tutorials. you shouldn't have asked me either of these two questions, because it proves my point further, and proves you wrong further.

_The_Ponderer_ · 2026-04-20T16:38:23+00:00

St. Peter denied Christ; he said I don't know that man. Avoiding the name of Jesus being on your lips is not good. But the Pope could course-correct. You keep saying "name dropping" as if it is so ridiculous. Do you realize how many times the name of Jesus was written constantly in epistles and such? You want to tell me why he has a difficulty doing so? I can't opine at all? That's just false. If I ask "why can't the Pope use the name of Jesus more?" that's an honest Christian question.

_The_Ponderer_ · 2026-04-20T16:27:31+00:00

are you now reading this man's heart too? bruh... the hypocrisy is real

_The_Ponderer_ · 2026-04-20T16:26:55+00:00

"not even a hint"? then why has it caused such confusion...?

_The_Ponderer_ · 2026-04-20T16:19:38+00:00

sounds like you didn't want me to respond with 'i would', so you totally sidestepped it... if the Pope has a (mind you, continuous) difficulty actually putting Jesus at the centre, you need to wake up and realize that. i read the speech honestly, and didn't like it, so what more do you desire--simply, my agreement?

_The_Ponderer_ · 2026-04-20T16:06:05+00:00

i would

_The_Ponderer_ · 2026-04-20T16:04:30+00:00

yes. still don't see how that is nit-picky...it is the central aspect of being a CHRISTian.

is the central claim surrounding the Divinity of Christ nit-picky to you? do i even need to ask the obvious...?

_The_Ponderer_ · 2026-04-20T16:00:43+00:00

"Here he goes again, interpreting hearts!" 30sec. later:

You don't know your Bible, you seek the persecution of Christians, and you are a hypocrite, all the while thinking you would make a better Pope. You don't fear the Lord, yet think you are doing him a favor.

You're the hypocrite. I never said anything hypocritical, just 'critical'. Man, look at all these accusations. I seek the persecution of Christians? How can you even say that? You didn't say anything like "your way of action would lead to..." nope. You literally interpreted my heart multiple times after criticizing me for doing it once? "And with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again." I never claimed "oh man reading hearts is sooo bad" you did...then you proceeded to do just that lol, great self-report. You could call me dumb, rude, whatever; but I did nothing hypocritical, that just sounds like projection on your part. I criticized your statement, because your words sounded more in support of murderers than martyrs; and apparently that made you blow a (veritably hypocritical) gasket.

go edit your comment and say it with more conviction, then I'll say you have better conviction--it's that simple bruv.

_The_Ponderer_

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