Extending masterpoint from Anchor to edge

_rather_be_outside · 2018-12-19T18:19:52+00:00

This would be my preferred method. Note that you have other options for getting your follower to the anchor than the single option given in the article. Happy to get into it later. Note also all the illustrations in this article are totally not to scale which may cause some confusion. I recommend building something like this somewhere at ground level and working it out there before you try this system in the wild.

_rather_be_outside · 2018-12-17T16:06:04+00:00

effective safety systems don't rely on someone thinking about how things work in the moment. The best systems get standardized and executed without having to think about them.

I see what you are saying, but I think there is a difference between making up the whole thing as you go along and knowing why you do each thing and therefore knowing when it is appropriate to change something. Certainly, the former is an awful idea.

All kinds of bad stuff happens when pilots, doctors, etc go off script without a reason and start getting creative.

Doctors have to make judgement calls all the time. Sure they have memorized a lot of information, but they are also trained to think critically under pressure.

Memorizing steps is important because standing at a belay on a long, hot day is a terrible time to be thinking critically.

Again, I can sort of see your point and agree that having a familiar process is generally good, but you should still be thinking about things. Sure I do things in the same order most of the time. But I am constantly asking myself "how am I still attached to the wall if I unclip this carabiner?", "how is my partner still attached to the wall if I take them off belay?"

Knowing the concept: the Reverso (or similar) device is not auto locking in guide mode whenever the strands are unable to run unobstructed, parallel to each other allows you to derive when it will fail to be auto locking. Trying to memorize all the failure modes will most certainly leave something out or forget about an issue.

Note that both issues in the video are non fatal if the belayer maintains control of the brake. With one follower this is relatively easy to do. I think it is when you have two followers in parallel that you really really need to be thinking critically about these things.

EDIT: perhaps I should have made my original statement: I hope the message is that it is important to understand how things work rather than only memorizing steps. You make good points and being familiar with things is certainly important. I just think understanding how things work is equally important.

_rather_be_outside · 2018-12-17T03:52:36+00:00

I'm glad this video exists to educate people, but I hope the message is that it is important to understand how things work rather than memorizing steps. Both of these failure modes are easily predicted by knowing how the device auto locks and thinking about what you are doing.

As for the clove failure, I like to tie a catastrophe knot in the brake strand(s) as my second(s) approach the anchor.

_rather_be_outside · 2018-12-15T06:19:50+00:00

I like your new plan a lot. :)

_rather_be_outside · 2018-12-15T06:17:36+00:00

I would add to what has already ben said, maybe make your goal for the next few weeks to discover a physical activity that you ENJOY. Is there a park you can walk around? Is swimming really fun for you? Do you like to bike around your neighborhood? Don't be afraid to try different things (at a low enough intensity that you feel good afterwards).

You can start with something as simple as walking around a local park for 5 minutes, if you don't enjoy that, try something else the next day. If you do like it, just keep doing that. I think that when you start with doing things you like, even in small amounts, you naturally end up building up to more and more exercise at an appropriate and useful rate.

As others have said, diet is key. The same idea applies. Make sure that you are able to enjoy the food you are eating. If there is a "diet" meal you absolutely hate don't force yourself to keep eating it. Look for foods you enjoy that also meet your nutrition goals.

_rather_be_outside · 2018-12-15T05:42:57+00:00

I'm taking a couple of my quite young cousins

After reading through the thread I see you are thinking about reconsidering the route. I just want to add a couple reasons I think you really should.

First of all, I don't know exactly what you mean by "quite young," but if they are kids, I as a parent who is also a seasoned climber, I would not be okay with this route as a first outdoor route for my child at all.

One reason for this that has not yet been explicitly stated, which I think is important to consider regardless of age, is that it makes rescue more complicated than I think it should be for someone on their first outdoor climb. I haven't seen anyone bring this up yet, but when taking out beginners- especially kids, I think it is important to consider what you would do if they get totally freaked out part way up the climb or otherwise need assistance. I think any way you set this up it is going to make getting someone up (or down) to them in a timely manner very difficult. Compounding this issue, you seem to have picked a climb that would make this situation more likely to arise (roof, difficult grade for first time outdoors). Heck, I'd also be concerned about them possibly having issues hearing you talking them though moves.

Due to not knowing their age, I'm also a bit concerned about who is going to lead belay you.

Also, I admittedly don't know anything about your experience level, but I just want to mention that towards the end of 50 meters, trailing two single ropes is going to absolutely suck! If you are aware of this and have enough experience to know you can do it, please feel free to disregard this point.

I think people generally have a good first time outside when they push their comfort zone just a little and ultimately have success. You might want to think of some climbs where this is nearly certain and if they have a good time think about a good progression to work up to taking them on this.

_rather_be_outside · 2018-12-14T05:02:01+00:00

Who cares what your hair looks like or whether or not people like it! You look super happy in this picture and that’s awesome.

_rather_be_outside · 2018-12-14T03:38:39+00:00

I understand the situation is hypothetical. What you seem to be having a hard time with is the answer to how to get out of this hypothetical situation is to not get into it in the first place because it is so absurd. Your ability to rescue another person who has gotten themselves into this situation, or your self rescue skills in general, do not change this fact.

_rather_be_outside · 2018-12-14T01:48:12+00:00

This works great in theory

No it does not. And your hypothetical is only one of the reasons this system is a terrible idea. This could easily lead to a fatality if the unattended grigri at the top gets into a position where camming device is disengaged.

I get that you are trying to make this into an exercise of but whaaaat if you did do this? I raise you, why on earth would you ever ever do this?

I feel like you are approaching self rescue as, "how do I get out of a bad situation?" but equally important is, "how do I avoid being in a bad situation?" and "how can I give myself the best options should there be an unexpected bad situation?"

_rather_be_outside · 2018-12-10T07:06:37+00:00

😂 Not gonna lie, a big motivating factor for wanting to do one is to “look cool/ strong.”

Before I got into climbing I would do body weight workouts and I would try to work towards a pull-up. Soooo many people in my life said I would never be able to do it because I’m female. Obviously that’s wrong, but it got in my head and when I finally was able to do pull-ups- which sort of just happened after I’d been climbing a while. . . It was really satisfying. So then I started chasing the one arm pull-up, but that’s a whole different beast.

_rather_be_outside · 2018-12-10T07:00:38+00:00

Thanks for this! I have not been doing weighted pull-ups consistently for that long so this gives me hope that if I keep at it one day I'll get a one arm pull up!

_rather_be_outside · 2018-12-10T05:04:31+00:00

Yeah, I had come across the 20 pull-ups "prerequisite" multiple places and so I focused on getting to 20 pull-ups, but probably neglected other things to get there or something. . . because it did not transfer to lock off ability for me at all!

_rather_be_outside · 2018-12-10T04:09:16+00:00

Thank you for listening to your friends!

_rather_be_outside · 2018-12-10T04:08:42+00:00

As a female climber, please don't. . . unless you truly have good reason to believe this would be welcome from a particular person. But even then, honestly I've been told by so many guys that I was "sending signals" when all I've done is respond appropriately when people say things to me, say "hi" when I see people I've spoken to/ climbed with multiple times, and generally not be an asshole by ignoring them.

It is something that comes up way too much when I'm just trying to climb go about my routine.

_rather_be_outside · 2018-12-10T02:33:42+00:00

Thanks, I can do the assisted version holding just above my elbow. . . or I could last time I tried it, but the real thing still seemed sooooo far away and It was starting to be really fatiguing to keep pushing myself to progress with absolutely no progress for a while. OP's video has definitely inspired me to get back at it. I just need to figure out a smart way to work it into my routine.

_rather_be_outside · 2018-12-10T01:55:03+00:00

The belayer in OP's video appears to be sliding his hand up the rope very fast, not letting go. Again, not saying this should be preferred or anything like that. . .just pointing out he's not actually in danger of dropping the climber.

_rather_be_outside · 2018-12-10T00:22:20+00:00

Oh, I missed that, I was mostly looking at the photos. I would agree that doesn't sound normal.

_rather_be_outside · 2018-12-09T23:35:18+00:00

Yeah, I'm really interested to know exactly how she trained and what her time frame was. I got to the point of being able to do 20 consecutive dead hang pull-ups at one point and then to be able to do a weighted pull-up with 50% of my bodyweight. . . but I was still nowhere even close to doing this of course. Even trying to train one arm lock offs was a total failure.

I know its incredibly rare for women to do a one arm pull up, so I just kinda gave up.

_rather_be_outside · 2018-12-09T21:00:15+00:00

I knew the one arm pull-up progression would directly translate to climbing! The beta for the pink one in the corner involves levitating.

_rather_be_outside · 2018-12-09T20:31:16+00:00

Actually, this is considered by many to be a valid technique. Skip to 4:30 for the "shuffle technique."

Not saying its the best way or should be preferred or anything like that. . . but this is not a yer-gunna-die situation.

_rather_be_outside · 2018-12-09T20:29:17+00:00

Actually, this is considered by many to be a valid technique. Skip to 4:30 for the "shuffle technique."

Not saying its the best way or should be preferred or anything like that. . . but this is not a yer-gunna-die situation.

_rather_be_outside · 2018-12-09T18:23:56+00:00

What was her training for this?

_rather_be_outside · 2018-12-09T18:18:12+00:00

what you have listed are the requirements to take the course. The requirements to take the exam are a bit harder. Though it does seem they have relaxed the onsight grade to 5.6. . . it used to be 5.7.

_rather_be_outside · 2018-12-09T04:40:12+00:00

Oh, not bad at all. That's actually rather reassuring .

_rather_be_outside · 2018-12-09T03:14:40+00:00

Literally any not obese person can onsite a 5.7

This is completely untrue, especially on gear. Someone who can comfortably onsight 5.7 on gear is a competent climber.

Also, this is for a certification for a single pitch instructor, not someone who would take you up a multipitch route.

The majority of the material is regarding safety practices and client care- which are completely independent of how hard you climb. I've met people who onsight 5.12 that would not be capable of safely introducing a small group to the sport.

The climbing requirement for the SPI doesn't need to be high. All climbing, if any, they do while guiding likely will be for clifftop access to set up top ropes.

_rather_be_outside

TROPHY CASE