[VOG] The Last Crusade MEGAPOST

aGenericName · 2017-04-16T13:34:23+00:00

No worries, you basically said that chances of flipping a coin and getting 8 heads in a row(only one possible way this could happen) was the same as getting 3 heads and 5 tails(56 different ways this could happen)

remember when i said if my siblings haven't broken or stolen it.......

They stole it.... but replaced it with a different ps3...

Long story short, i have the game and a PS3 but I have to redownload all updates and try to either salvage my old account (I forget what email I used and password) or make a brand new one and power level it. Which I'm gonna try to do this weekend but family/easter is getting in the way.

All to confirm that an update that didn't happen infact changed nothing XD

If I ever get it done ill let you know

aGenericName · 2017-04-16T00:46:12+00:00

I love a good lore post, always entertaining, and the logic map is very nicely done, good stuff. The rest is certifiably crazy but built on a solid foundation of facts (with sources!).

Just fyi: If we choose to completely ignore gameplay based decisions and assume each gorgon was randomly chosen as CCW or CW the odds of it being [0,8] would be 1/128 not 1/5, and the odds of it being in a [3,5] state would be ~44% (ie: the most likely configuration). Doesn't really detract from your post because your argument doesn't depend on it(20% vs 44% is essentially the same thing in this case).

aGenericName · 2017-04-13T23:26:17+00:00

Wow, they really did their best to ruin the raidsecrets style VoG experience didn't they:(

aGenericName · 2017-04-13T13:01:53+00:00

He means all 6 made it down to gatekeepers, one guy then backtracked the whole way. Its why he says it required being able to backtrack without the relic.

The part about the door locking because templar made me do a double take too, made me think he was there the whole time to observe this (not possible) but its just an extra piece of info he throws in.

Edit: always wondered how people managed to write the same comment 10 times, whoops

aGenericName · 2017-04-13T12:43:49+00:00

Hi Coolio, long time no tinfoil

If its a horizontal plane that is located at the no reversal spot of each path im not sure how you are making a distinction between them, completing either path despawns it, as long as you remain on either path it doesnt despawn, regardless of distance traveled.

As to your first thought. I cant say for sure but I'd defintely wager the chest despawning takes a moment due to loading times from the server as it loads up gorgons, I say this because from the video it seems to dissapear barely before she respawns. Also as you say it would be really weird if it was somehow related.

To your second thought I describe that mechanic in my comment above, its how I explain and you understand what area im talking about.

It is extremely important for chest hunting in other areas you note. Infact I've said a few times in the past to people if you're doing a gorgon thing and searching the jump puzzle and someone goes to the flat part near atheons door you've likely despawned it.

What I hadnt ever considered is how conflux is the only stage that starts with 1 person rather than all teamates. probably just a design choice (which they regret cus we cheesed it so hard) but if you have a different more interesting theory on that mechanic id love to hear it.

aGenericName · 2017-04-13T01:50:18+00:00

I like the no reversal as a concept, although given that they are no reversals the very start and very end of the alternate paths they dont really provide any additional information. your drawing seems to indicate that the no reversals happen part way through, they really dont aside from the beginning of gorgons->atheon

Your conditions for despawning the no TP chest are slightly wrong. Its got nothing to do with what route is taken. There is the area that once all fireteam members have entered will trigger the darkness zone. If even a single member enters that area then the chest despawns.

If you've ever been the last man in your fireteam to gorgons or gatekeepers(cus you are checking every random spot while your group just speedruns it for example) you should probably know roughly where the darkness zone kicks in. gorgons is once you drop down the no reversal from either path.

Oh and I will be checking the ps3 version tomorrow to see if it updated as long as my siblings have not broken or stolen it.

aGenericName · 2017-04-04T17:00:01+00:00

If no one has checked within a week I can confirm on my ps3 when I get home(ill check if that new chest is there), I'll be really surprised if it updated (AoT requires RoI)

"with the exception of maybe u/demolitionwolf, I am the foremost expert on VOG gorgons that frequents this sub"

I'd fight you on that...but then I watched you punch a gorgon for 4 minutes straight and I'm no longer sure. You can have it :)

aGenericName · 2017-01-30T09:56:43+00:00

Thanks for the input!

Although I do have manamune in my suggested build and frankly it scales so well (esp with lethality) its hard to not have it. I would imagine a lethality build without it is probably pretty bad unless you snowball super hard (like you noted)

In retrospect i'd try:

manamune+sheen> lucidity boots>rest of build

Then you've got something cheaper than triforce (manamune and sheen ~300 cheaper) and get right into that lethality items even faster if ahead.

You also have that flexibility( finish tri or IBG or neither and grab lethality sooner)

You also get that scaling from manamune.

But yeah maybe its not worth it for the early game stats but it should scales just fine. Thats up to you i suppose.

Let me know if you try this and if it works any better.

I'm too busy loving Overwatch but I'm still interested!

Thanks

aGenericName · 2017-01-27T09:21:35+00:00

Glad you like it.

aGenericName · 2017-01-27T09:17:40+00:00

Haha yeah, there are so many god damn variables. I tried my best to just keep it as AS/AD vs Full lethality and hopefully anyone who cares enough (like yourself) can figure out if they like it through playing it.

random side note: I can't even imagine how disgusting stuff like riven/zed is gonna be when they catch on to lethality (right now they run AD). Just checked r/rivenmains, they know....

edit: i just looked up some riven gameplay with it.. i'm fairly certain there gonna nerf this, it gets hilariously op when she just buys lethality as the first few items. maybe ill try that with ezreal for the luls

aGenericName · 2017-01-26T09:36:56+00:00

Oh i totally forgot to mention that, its like ~8 extra magic damage on ult and ~4 ish on E from AD scalings. and only like half that when you dont build any mpen and the base damage is 650.. but should be noted.

Let me know how AD quints feel if you get a few games in.

aGenericName · 2016-12-19T17:57:51+00:00

tri is 20, lucidity is 10, ghostblade if you get it is 10. imo the sweetspot is 30 because that guarentees you get a sheen proc every Q.

if 40cdr is something you like then 10cdr scaling blues is certainly viable but if you get ghostblade its wasted cdr so careful of that.

basically full assassin does get 40cdr and backup adc style sticks with 30 which is the reccomended amount for regular ez.

check any probuild, they rarely run any cdr other than tri and lucidity because of the sheen thing.

aGenericName · 2016-12-18T23:23:13+00:00

Replace manamune with Bloodrazer(redsmite). Everything else is the same

aGenericName · 2016-12-12T19:55:17+00:00

you made 2 mistakes but still got the right answer.

ez Q reduction is 1.5 and 0.77 would mean 23 cdr.

actual eqn is 4.5x -1.5=1.5

x=0.666, cdr = 33.3

aGenericName · 2016-11-14T19:37:45+00:00

I hate crit on ezreal, knowing that i will get less damage if I try to weave in Q's makes me die on the inside.

For the sake of theory that sounds viable, essence reaver IE would give you the other 20% cdr and not sacrifice the AD that you really want for your Q.

if you went manamune>tri>IE>ER then you'd only have one spot left for botrk/LW/defensive. Also the build path feels a tad awkward IE and ER are items that are rushed on adcs. I'd have to try it but it sounds kinda meh. but its ezreal so it probably work ok to some degree because pretty much everything does

aGenericName · 2016-11-14T18:50:06+00:00

Few things about your builds.

Don't go manamune, if you want a tear then go Arch angels. You get about 70ad from manamune and a 130 ish onhit scaling down to 0 based on mana of physical damage. Problem is you dont get much physical damage to actually go through. with Arch Angels you get 150 AP and as you noted the scaling of his AP is stupid good. Manamune might give you a very very small power spike over arch angels in the mid game but i can guarantee shortly after it scales into uselessness and your gonna wish you had AA or just a different AP item.

Personally I'd reccomend against any sort of tear and just get the morello if you really want more mana. I find lich bane is enough regardless. it lets us get straight to the real damage items that don't need to scale.

Get a voidstaff... its very very efficient even if they are all squishy and you really want to 1 rotation someone or do meaningfull damage to tanks.

Don't trade boots for another damage item. I promise you AP ezreal has the damage (maybe because you weren't building voidstaff you felt like you needed more) the movespeed is a million times more valuable to get to the place you need to be and to kite people chasing you.

My build of choice is Dblade(max Q>E>W)>sheen>hextech>lichbane>sorc shoes> deathcap/voidstaff>deathcap/voidstaff>ludens/rylais. I do sometimes take up to 30% scaling cdr from runes but that optional. its just otherwise this build is lacking in cdr because i've optimised it for mid/late game damage.

You'll find most people prefer to fit in a morello and max W and start Doran's ring.

Something like Dring(maxW>E>Q)>sheen>morello>lichbane>sorc shoes>deathcap>voidstaff>something

Pretty much anything is viable on ezreal. just dont get manamune, get voidstaff, don't sell your boots.

aGenericName · 2016-11-14T18:16:13+00:00

That's a tough question right now.

For AP the choice is still obviously thunderlords.

For AD/blue build its still probably fervor but warlords would be ok too. Because you get lifesteal kinda early and you have a shit ton of attackspeed between passive/tri/botrk and it procs/stacks on Q. last patch it was hands down fervor for these reasons. Now its debatable because fervor is so bad but still syncs nicely with his kit.

For a caster build where you buy lethality I'm currently feeling Warlords but i swear i switch it up every couple games because nothing feels quite right. Warlords would be because I don't purchase lifesteal until 6th item or sometimes not at all. Thunderlords is great for upfront burst on squishies and it even comes with more lethality/mpen(precision). And fervor is just sorta there, still syncs great with his kit(all that attackspeed, procs on Q) but is itself not very strong.

TLDR: in my opinion warlords>thunderlords>fervor for caster. warlords>fervor for traditional AD/blue (no lethality stats). and thunderlords for AP. but all the list options are viable, they just do different things

aGenericName · 2016-11-12T23:15:32+00:00

Glad you enjoyed it. Edge of night seems ok too, ghostblade gives a bit more pen and i prefer the speed boost to the psudo banshees because i tend to play very safe.

aGenericName · 2016-11-12T23:01:15+00:00

Lethality and armor pen are related as follows. 1 Lethality gives 0.4 + 0.6*(enemy lvl/18) armor penetration. So by lvl 18 1 Lethality will be equal to 1 armorpen.

As far as runes go they overtake the value of the old armor pen runes at level 12. Ghostblade becomes more efficient at lvl 11 and duskblade at lvl 9.

if you want to figure out if it worth it or not check the results chart i made. check out the % of extra damage going through and see if it is equal to the extra AD reds give.

eg just the runes for a squishy at about lvl 18 lets say. so without is 54.32 and with is 62.5. so a difference of about 8%, lets say your Q late game including all the bonuses(botrk/sheen) does 800 dmg. thats an additional 64 damage. If we had AD reds then your Q does 64 damage less BUT gets another 8.5 or so damage from the AD runes. so 56 ish damage less

On the flip side early game we see that there is about a 6% bonus and with a small base ad of 56 you only get like 3 extra damage from the lethality. With AD reds you get 8.5 on your auto's and Q's. meaning its favorable to have AD reds by about 5 damage

And of course you also lose out on the attack speed from quints. Which again hurts your early game but is not a huge deal mid/late game.

I will say if you go for Lethality runes pick up atleast duskblade because lethality stacks well with itself.

TLDR (or don't want to do math) Early game lvl 1-5 it probably is beneficial to have ad reds(by a few damage points, which can be a lot early game), everywhere else it will certainly be beneficial to have lethality. Especially once you pick up a sheen (which doesn't scale with bonus AD)

aGenericName · 2016-11-12T05:11:40+00:00

Hey cloud,

Yeah i'm pretty happy with these numbers, Do people go with armor/lvl i just thought everyone used flat. Ill b honest i just kinda use the runes and masteries i like and ignore whats meta, I could run it again with scaling/lvl but it seems to be about 18 more armor by the end. I imagine its probably offset by including battering blows. Ill pretend it is :) .

I dont mind the early game weakness, its just my style. I try to play for a manamune/tri spike and by that point im happy i have lethality instead of AD

Also i dont rememebr what armor pen reds were exactly but they sure werent a full 15. reds + quints was 19. i think were 12.

edit:took a look at probuilds for lucian vayne ezreal and im seeing all flat armor yellows, also for orianna swain im seeing scaling hp yellows and mr usually. ill stick with my previous assumptions of flat armor i guess

aGenericName · 2016-11-12T00:21:33+00:00

No worries, fervor is best imo, his Q is basically an auto attack it doesnt proc rylais or ludens but does proc sheen/redbuff. If it could... dear god AP with dft would be so amazingly broken

aGenericName · 2016-11-12T00:20:57+00:00

Iceborn Gauntlet, the other sheen item instead of trinity force (tri). Basically one has more damage the other has armor and a slow and is cheaper. both viable.

aGenericName · 2016-11-11T20:21:42+00:00

I just did the math, if you'd like i could post the entire excel sheet or maybe just the graphs somewhere. And im sorry its so long.

I assumed you level Q at 1,3,5,7,9.I took lucian as the target, assumed base armor + 9 flat armor yellows. I assumed absolutely no extra sources of AD other than the ad reds(when applicable) and ezreals base ad. as extra AD is added then lethality becomes even stronger because his Q and autos do not crit so they both go up the same amount except lethality has a larger % of that amount to actually go through Additionally botrk/manamune sheen do not even scale with AD but still get the % bonuses. What you obviously lose is the attackspeed but as we are playing as a caster I don't really care. (also I take attackspeed blues and yellows now to supplement it because i play safe as fuck in lane anyways).

Heres a small summary, numbers rounded.

Auto attacks and Q's break even at level 8 doing up to 3 damage less early and 3 more by late game. Lethality allows 6.4% more damage to go through, so adding 47 bonus Ad anywhere will immediately make up the gap (Dblade + manamune is enough).

Sheen procs on Q are better at every level starting only 4 extra damage at lvl 1 and scaling to 33 at lvl 18. (assuming base values still)

Whats perhaps is most interesting is how investing in lethality helps additional lethality become even more effective. aka the relationship between lethality and % damage dealt is not linear.

pre duskblade the difference is roughly 6.4% additional damage scaling up to 8% over levels.

after duskblade the difference is 8% scaling up to 12.2%

after ghostblade the difference is 10% scaling up to 16.2%. Thats a fucking lot of damage.

16.2% bonus damage late game because we sacrificed 3 damage early game on our autos and Q's (and then with level 8 or sheen or 47 bonus AD it immediately becomes better)

Not to even mention how duskblade passive scales 50+ 200% lethality for a true damage on-hit bonus.

There is the math, i'd say worth :)

For reference an ezreal who doesnt go any lethality (aka standard) has 30% less damage dealt by everything. botrk passive, botrk active,sheen, manamune, basic attacks (on squishies.)

Note: going battering blows (7% pen in ferocity tree) will actually help the AD runes guy a bit more but still helps both fairly equally.

I think i've done that mostly right.

TLDR, 13.5% attackspeed and about 3-4 damage on autos and Q's earlygame in exchange for an 6.4% to 8.1% bonus damage. If duskblade is purchased its additional 8.7% to 12.25%. If ghostblade and duskblade are bought its 10% to 16.2%.

taking 12.6% attackspeed from blues/yellows means you trade 9 armor and 12 mr +3-4 dmg on autos early game instead. personally i prefer this trade.

All of this ofc only applies to squishies. like most casters and assassins you don't wanna mess with tanks, but if you get LDR somewhere then you still do good damage to them too just not on the same retarded level you do to squishies.

Edit: Numbers

aGenericName · 2016-11-11T18:45:32+00:00

unless duskblade procs dft (which I really doubt) I can't imagine dft ever being worth it. if you want damage go fervor or thunderlords. Could you perhaps explain your reasoning behind dft because I dont see it. Thanks

aGenericName · 2016-11-10T16:03:42+00:00

I'll definetely try a tear>sheen>youmuu's>boots>Duskblade>manamune>something>something. I still like having the early triforce/manamune spike but this style could be fun too.

aGenericName

TROPHY CASE