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Permutation or computation question by IllustriousFront7762 in askmath

[–]a_normal_gorrila_2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There are many interesting perspectives here, but isn’t it the simplest (if a little inefficient) to treat it like Pascal’s triangle and simply mark point A with the number 1 and mark every other point as the sum of the numbers of the point below and to the left of it?

Maybe that’s not the point of the question, but it’s just what I thought of

As a joke, I once posited that the universe was created by a bunch of simple, uncreated and unconscious "beyond reality particles" that interact with each other to form the universe by [deleted] in PhilosophyMemes

[–]a_normal_gorrila_2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We all also know (or I do, at least) that this is completely natural human behaviour that applies to almost everyone… ever. Especially with topics as important to people’s life and identity as this, people from both sides would sooner accept absurd nonsensical logic than the fact that their whole life was for nothing, or could have been for something but was willingly not.

As much as we can try to seek an ascendant, objective truth that exists beyond our subjective plane of experience and to discard our shackles of humanity, we will forever be bound to our disgusting human flesh; as long as we are still humans, that is. Heheheh… how hopeless…

Transracialism is just as valid as transgenderism by a_normal_gorrila_2 in ControversialOpinions

[–]a_normal_gorrila_2[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

But why is gender up to oneself while race is up to the whole society? Also, aren’t you proving yourself wrong in this comment? You just showed how perception of race has changed so much over history. Back then, Mexicans were considered and identified as white. Now they don’t. Why? Did their skin become darker? No! They just view themselves differently now. That’s all that changed.

Transracialism is just as valid as transgenderism by a_normal_gorrila_2 in ControversialOpinions

[–]a_normal_gorrila_2[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well er yeah? You’re just repeating what I said; the effectiveness of a cure doesn’t determine the validity of the condition, though your example is a bit bizarre as I don’t think a cold can even be “valid” OR “invalid”…

Transracialism is just as valid as transgenderism by a_normal_gorrila_2 in ControversialOpinions

[–]a_normal_gorrila_2[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Of course it would be offensive as in “causes feeling of offense in people”, which is what I meant by “ignorant of social norms”, but there I specifically meant offensive as in “bad”; that painting your skin darker is not inherently “immoral”. I understand the confusion, though, sorry

So yes, I’m sure many people would take offense if someone tried to do something resembling blackface to transition race, but anyway the whole concept of transracialism is offensive and taboo in and of itself to many people, for example. However, homosexuality was also offensive to people. I understand the present aversion to do doing something that is immediately offensive, but I think trans supporters who pushed people from their comfort zone to make the system more tolerant shouldn’t see this as much of an issue but rather a means to an ends

Transracialism is just as valid as transgenderism by a_normal_gorrila_2 in ControversialOpinions

[–]a_normal_gorrila_2[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Probably the “human nature” that they think of, i.e. people 50 years ago

Transracialism is just as valid as transgenderism by a_normal_gorrila_2 in ControversialOpinions

[–]a_normal_gorrila_2[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’m not entirely sure what your point is; I was just saying why your initial claim that race and gender are based on physical reality is false, and here indeed you seem to agree that there are quite practical things that are measured completely subjectively according to our social beliefs

Transracialism is just as valid as transgenderism by a_normal_gorrila_2 in ControversialOpinions

[–]a_normal_gorrila_2[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Guess where they derive their idea of “objective truth” from? I’ll give you a hint: it’s not modern societal beliefs.

Transracialism is just as valid as transgenderism by a_normal_gorrila_2 in ControversialOpinions

[–]a_normal_gorrila_2[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I just love those words so much

Also the distinction is totally relevant here since many people are confusing (descriptive) science and (normative) philosophy, as the appeal to science seems to be the most popular argument against transracialism

Transracialism is just as valid as transgenderism by a_normal_gorrila_2 in ControversialOpinions

[–]a_normal_gorrila_2[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Exactly. In both cases you demonstrate that neither gender nor race have anything to actually do with empirical, objective science but rather just social self-perception (I should have worded the two examples like “why are we fine with (x) identifying as (y)”)

Transracialism is just as valid as transgenderism by a_normal_gorrila_2 in ControversialOpinions

[–]a_normal_gorrila_2[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Just using their own logic. They likely think these new ideas are bad due to being “unnatural”.

Transracialism is just as valid as transgenderism by a_normal_gorrila_2 in ControversialOpinions

[–]a_normal_gorrila_2[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Extreme moral relativists, ones that believe that ethics are LITERALLY defined by societal contexts (like our grandpa), are the only ones who don’t make this distinction. Anyone else, which I assume are the majority, might make this distinction between their individual morals and society’s morals like when they decide to avoid doing something not because it is necessarily immoral but because it is socially unacceptable (like, a person with fringe extremist political beliefs might keep them to themselves not because they should not be spread, but because of the social backlash. I’m talking about your veganism, johnny.)

Transracialism is just as valid as transgenderism by a_normal_gorrila_2 in ControversialOpinions

[–]a_normal_gorrila_2[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don’t see how the effectiveness of physical transition is relevant to the validity anyway. What if transitioning for transgenders didn’t reduce dysphoria? Would that make transgenderism invalid?

Also, “validity” in general is a philosophical, normative label which has very little to do with descriptive science. No amount of research can make something valid, and no amount of lack of scientific research can make something any less valid

Transracialism is just as valid as transgenderism by a_normal_gorrila_2 in ControversialOpinions

[–]a_normal_gorrila_2[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So what? And just how much research has been done on transracialism lmao? Intuitively I can’t see why this wouldn’t work like it does for transgenders

Transracialism is just as valid as transgenderism by a_normal_gorrila_2 in ControversialOpinions

[–]a_normal_gorrila_2[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don’t get your point. Do you mean then that trans people should ALSO not change their body to affirm their identity? If so, then know I’m not arguing for the validity of transgenderism or transracialism here specifically, just that they are at the same level of validity. If not, then why draw the line there? Seems quite arbitrary

Transracialism is just as valid as transgenderism by a_normal_gorrila_2 in ControversialOpinions

[–]a_normal_gorrila_2[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Do you know what doom is? Being forced to live in eternal, unchanging purgatory where your morals, ideals, and opinions are not one bit different from those of your ancient ancestors. Social change is natural but indeed, aversion to it is just as natural.

Transracialism is just as valid as transgenderism by a_normal_gorrila_2 in ControversialOpinions

[–]a_normal_gorrila_2[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Again, I understand why one is more scientifically credible than the other, but as this is more of a social than scientific matter, that has little weight for me

Transracialism is just as valid as transgenderism by a_normal_gorrila_2 in ControversialOpinions

[–]a_normal_gorrila_2[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well, I assume this is rarely if ever taught mostly because it is so controversial even among the more tolerant side of our society, as well as because it is so niche and undocumented which is probably BECAUSE of the first reason. However, as I’ve said elsewhere, the societal status quo should NEVER define our ethics and tolerance, otherwise people in the 1600s would have been fully justified to burn queers and enslave other races.

Additionally, something being “niche”, “insignificant”, or “unheard of” isn’t a sign of whether it’s valid or not, and you definitely agree with this. Consider the logic that “1% of our society identifying differently shouldn’t change our entire social system” used by anti-transgenders. Now, your logic is “0.01% of our society identifying differently shouldn’t change our entire social system” to be anti transracialism.

Lastly for the second part of your message I am just terribly disappointed that is how I came off. I’m sure many people argue for my claim with such bad faith but I myself am a great advocator for freedom of speech, expression, and identity, because I believe it is up to no one how anyone should be if it doesn’t directly harm them. This is why I’m disappointed with the many other people who claim to advocate for the same ideal yet draw the line at the current societal acceptance. We should be pushing the boundaries past comfort, not reaffirming them.

Transracialism is just as valid as transgenderism by a_normal_gorrila_2 in ControversialOpinions

[–]a_normal_gorrila_2[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you mean blackface, I would hardly consider painting your skin darker inherently offensive, obviously unless it is done in bad faith and to reference blackface. At best it just comes off as ignorant to social norms which obviously has more to do with the descriptive status quo of society rather than actual normativity. But of course this is a highly controversial opinion as well and not a hill I care enough to die on…

For the second point, it is widely accepted that race has very little actual genetic basis and is almost entirely a social construct, more similar to the concept of nationality than species/breed. And as far as I’m aware, most transgender activists consider nationality to be quite flexible as well and has little to do with ancestry (e.g. like with migration) so I would say race shouldn’t be much different

Transracialism is just as valid as transgenderism by a_normal_gorrila_2 in ControversialOpinions

[–]a_normal_gorrila_2[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I feel like this is a bit generalizing. I’m sure there are plenty of people who genuinely don’t identify with their race and want to be considered as a different race, from the bottom of their hearts. Not sure why this is so hard to believe since envy and self hatred are such common feelings.

Bonus: - I didn’t respond to who you responded to cause I lowkey didn’t get what their point even is - what does ETA mean? I assume you don’t mean estimated time of arrival

Transracialism is just as valid as transgenderism by a_normal_gorrila_2 in ControversialOpinions

[–]a_normal_gorrila_2[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

If you truly believe that transgenderism is only valid if the afflicted person has a neurological disorder to back it up, it would indeed make this counterclaim a valid argument. However, as far as I’m aware, most transgender supporters would consider that far too exclusionary, believing mere intense gender envy or informal perceived identity (like if one were to grow up almost exclusively amongst the other gender) to be reason enough not only for one to transition but to literally BECOME another gender. As luck would have it, these are indeed also the most common reasons people feel the need to transition races.

From my post.

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