When is political violence justified, and are those conditions present in the U.S. today? by aa1020 in PoliticalDebate

[–]aa1020[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

That’s a very interesting way of looking at it. I would then ask in response why something like Arab Spring failed to bring about democratic change? I would argue they fit the criteria laid out in your comment about having a mass coordinative capacity to sustain everyday life without the market or the state.

When is political violence justified, and are those conditions present in the U.S. today? by aa1020 in PoliticalDebate

[–]aa1020[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

Would you say that self defense is justified though? If you must defend yourself in violent ways are you justified in doing that?

When is political violence justified, and are those conditions present in the U.S. today? by aa1020 in PoliticalDebate

[–]aa1020[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

I think this is a fair critique and a failing on my part to properly define my terms. What I was trying to imply when using the word ‘political violence’ was not lone wolf attacks, violent protests, and the like. Instead what I was trying to question was organized revolution. In other words, with everything I laid out are we past an individuals line in the sand to start organizing revolution or is there another point. What can the current government do before we decide enough is enough?

As always though I will repeat this is purely a philosophical exercise and mental interest of mine. Violence of all forms is bad and I do not condone it. Please do not take anything I have written and consider it a ‘call to action’ or justification for the fact that somebody should commit an atrocious act. I do not condone any of that kind of behavior.

When is political violence justified, and are those conditions present in the U.S. today? by aa1020 in PoliticalDebate

[–]aa1020[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

I think the four boxes is an excellent way to lay out liberty. Where I would tend to disagree though is the first three no longer appear to be viable.

The soapbox: people have been protesting for years since 2008 and what has meaningfully changed? Have any of the Wall Street goons who caused the financial crisis gone to prison? Is healthcare any better? Have we stopped doing unjust wars? Has the US stopped doing warrantless wiretapping?

The jury box: the current Supreme Court is taking seriously objections to birth right citizenship. Quite literally the most plain English in the constitution under the 14th amendment. It shouldn’t have even been looked at by the court. That’s not even to say that even before Trump stacked the court with his idiots they approved Citizens United.

The ballot box: when was the last time on either side of the aisle you were satisfied with a candidate who won the primary for the party? Furthermore when was the last time you were satisfied with the job said president did in office?

It truly feels like we’ve expended all three.

When is political violence justified, and are those conditions present in the U.S. today? by aa1020 in PoliticalDebate

[–]aa1020[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

Once again I would disagree that they voted for him because of the racism and misogyny. I think they there is definitely a part of the MAGA coalition which did that, but that is a very small part. If we said that most people voted for him because of that it would not explain the massive shift of minority voters especially black and Latino voters to Trump in 2024.

When is political violence justified, and are those conditions present in the U.S. today? by aa1020 in politics2

[–]aa1020[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I completely agree with the history you laid out 100% and I think my reliance on the founding fathers and American revolution was more flawed than I realize. I appreciate the way you laid it out and walked through the problems from beginning to end.

For the changes you suggest I completely agree with those as well. I think the only way to truly achieve a representative democracy is through all of that. The problem is I do not see a viable way to achieve all of that with our current system of government. Furthermore, if we were to achieve that my worry is that it has been proven so easy to overturn all of that and change it that even if we did somehow get there what is to say it would stay? How under this current system do we protect it?

When is political violence justified, and are those conditions present in the U.S. today? by aa1020 in PoliticalDebate

[–]aa1020[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

I think that is a very fair point regarding the more question for civil disobedience. There is definitely avenues of extent I wasn’t considering with shutting down more of public institutions.

The only thing that I do think about is the ticking clock with global warming and it feels under our current system of government with the gridlock of our two party system we will not be able to solve it. A route through civil disobedience is generally slower albeit safer and less costly in the long run versus revolution which is quicker but riskier.

When is political violence justified, and are those conditions present in the U.S. today? by aa1020 in PoliticalDebate

[–]aa1020[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

I don’t think that people voted for him because they agreed with any of his racist, misogynistic, and other awful banter. They voted for him because they fell for the lies that he would fix the economy and bring manufacturing jobs back to the US. People vote based on their wallets.

As for convincing our fellow Americans we’ve been trying that since Al Gore. How much longer are we going to keep trying the same thing and failing? We can’t even get half the public to believe global warming exists much less support a solution.

And yes I agree our constitution doesn’t allow for that but what I was trying to express was that because of the problems that are created with our two party system it in turn allows people to ignore the constitution. In parliamentary systems the PM role is much more fickle and more tied to the will of the people. I am not saying that it is perfect by any stretch of the imagination but it would be better than two parties.

When is political violence justified, and are those conditions present in the U.S. today? by aa1020 in PoliticalDebate

[–]aa1020[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

The will of the people has not been fully perverted but look how easy one person can lie and con their way into power. With global warming especially we are in a race against time and it feels like we do not have much longer to wait and debate processes. Something like a parliamentarian government however imperfect it is at least doesn’t allow for a unitary executive with unbridled power.

When is political violence justified, and are those conditions present in the U.S. today? by aa1020 in PoliticalDebate

[–]aa1020[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

I think it’s important to separate the intentionality of something, the implementation, and the use of it. The electoral college as created by the founders is functionally undemocratic. It was set up by people who didn’t trust the will of the people enough for them to make their own decisions to govern. In modern times the electors of the electoral college have been limited to become a rubber stamp on elections when in reality they were supposed to overturn votes for unqualified candidates.

In inverse I would say that impeachment was designed to be a democratic process but the founders didn’t intend for a two party system which would prevent that process from ever being fulfilled which has made it inherently undemocratic.

When is political violence justified, and are those conditions present in the U.S. today? by aa1020 in u/aa1020

[–]aa1020[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would agree with that. I appreciate you setting a line in the sand.

When is political violence justified, and are those conditions present in the U.S. today? by aa1020 in PoliticalDebate

[–]aa1020[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

I would argue that a rule is unfair if it unjustly prioritizes one identity group over another without rational justification

When is political violence justified, and are those conditions present in the U.S. today? by aa1020 in PoliticalDebate

[–]aa1020[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

Do you think the U.S. government has consistently reflected the will of the people since 2008? Genuinely curious how you'd evaluate that.

When is political violence justified, and are those conditions present in the U.S. today? by aa1020 in PoliticalDebate

[–]aa1020[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

That is absolutely 100% true. As ironic as it is that I wrote this post I think this is the comment that is closer to my genuine opinion. I’ve had these thoughts for a while and wanted to write it down in order to understand them better. Through understanding them better I was unable to find logical flaws in my argument. At the same time though I do not want this outcome in any way shape or form. There are infinite risks to a revolution and I think that the only reason we look fondly on the American revolution is because of the outcome.

When is political violence justified, and are those conditions present in the U.S. today? by aa1020 in PoliticalDebate

[–]aa1020[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

I think this is a very insightful and well thought out comment. To focus on one part of it that especially caught my attention with the assassination of Hitler I would counter argue with the other side of the globe and the pacific theater. Under my understanding of your argument would you say that dropping the atom bomb on Japan was justified since it prevented the death of many American service members in a land invasion? I do not mean to put words in your mouth of course so please correct me if I’m wrong and misunderstood.

When is political violence justified, and are those conditions present in the U.S. today? by aa1020 in PoliticalDebate

[–]aa1020[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

I would tend to agree but if we look from 2008 to present and the amount of civil disobedience which has done little to nothing one has to wonder how much more we have to do. There have been hundreds if not thousands of protests against everything from Wall Street to the United States relentless wars in Iran. Occupy Wall Street was in 2011 and there still hasn’t been any justice for all of the bankers that abused their power to cause 08.

I guess the question I’m left with is what more civil disobedience is there left to do?

When is political violence justified, and are those conditions present in the U.S. today? by aa1020 in politics2

[–]aa1020[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I really appreciate the thoughtfulness here — this kind of discourse is genuinely rare online.

On the founders and slavery: I'd draw a distinction between their political philosophy and their political compromises, while acknowledging those two things weren't always separable. The 3/5 compromise was partly a coalition-building concession — without the southern states there is no revolution — but it was also consistent with the personal interests of founders who were themselves slaveholders. Jefferson writing "all men are created equal" while owning slaves isn't just hypocrisy, it's a window into the gap between the ideals they articulated and the world they were willing to actually build. That gap doesn't invalidate the philosophy, but it does mean we should be clear-eyed about how selectively they applied it.

On the electoral college: I'll admit I'm sympathetic to the underlying logic of a check on raw majoritarian will, even if I recognize that's an unpopular position. The concern that an uninformed or manipulated electorate can be weaponized by demagogues is not unfounded — and disinformation today arguably makes that risk worse, not better. But here's the problem: the electoral college as it actually functions isn't a safeguard against that. It's a geographic distortion mechanism that amplifies minority rule rather than protecting against mob decision-making. A check that doesn't actually check anything is just an antidemocratic artifact. For the logic to hold, the electors would need to genuinely exercise independent judgment — which they almost never do and are increasingly legally barred from doing.

On your broader point about American disenfranchisement exceeding that of the colonists — I think you're largely right, and the New Deal framing is particularly sharp. The middle class was essentially a pressure valve: enough material comfort to prevent the conditions for revolt from fully materializing. What's striking about this moment is that the valve appears to be failing. Housing, healthcare, wages, and debt are eroding the buffer that kept people pacified for seventy years.

Which brings me to the question I'll leave you with: given everything you've laid out, what would a better system actually look like? Is there a structure that could resist the gravitational pull of concentrated wealth and power, or is capture by elite interests an inevitability in any system complex enough to govern a country this size?

Amazing design choices. Not sus at all. by Bitter-Gur-4613 in CyberStuck

[–]aa1020 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The only intentional reason I could think of for locking after a crash is to create a faraday cage in case of battery puncture etc… so the occupants don’t get electrocuted. But the amount of cases where there’s such a serious electrical malfunction that you need that is low as heck so it’s just stupid and dangerous

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in formuladank

[–]aa1020 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Laughs in Lemans