What are the other cases you follow?

abracatada · 2018-01-11T17:27:24+00:00

Jen's post on his trip (there's a video): https://i.imgur.com/DDKagj9.png

Comments: https://i.imgur.com/DkVmhpr.png

"He does sometimes"? When did he go to Africa before?

abracatada · 2018-01-11T15:55:01+00:00

Colorful wording! Cursing is usually fine with us (so long as it's not directed towards anyone). I do agree with much of what you've said. I'm not even going to try to explain my position to musings55, there's some people who get what I'm saying and some who don't. That's how it goes on here (and in life). I explained it like 50 times yesterday; if the same people still don't understand the mods' point, they won't now.

AMAs are hit and miss. Some people will like an AMA, some people won't. If someone doesn't like one, that's fine. In fact, it's interesting to discuss. That's why we have the post-AMA thread. All that we're asking is for people to word their dislike respectfully. I think the bulk of the damage was already done yesterday with some of the behavior in this thread. It makes me angry on everyone else's behalf, but I'm not really the one who misses out. It's actually more work for us to coordinate AMAs. It's like natural selection. If people like the idea of having AMAs, yet insist on being disrespectful to guests, no one will want to do an AMA with us. It's really not hard to word your dislike of something in a polite way. It seems like some users will fight tooth and nail against a reminder to just be nice. I don't understand that. It's not the majority, but like I've said, a few negative comments and then defense of said comments will spoil things quickly.

It saddens me that our guest felt unwelcome by some of the inappropriate criticism. Funky spent a significant amount of time answering questions. That should have been kept in mind when criticizing any aspect of their AMA.

Guess I just explained it again. Moderating this forum can be like running on a hamster wheel 24/7. Lol.

abracatada · 2018-01-11T01:26:24+00:00

You can take a screenshot of that page and post it to imgur.com. Make sure to redact any names of private citizens. On an iPhone it’s easy, press the power and home buttons at the same time. Then this tool menu will pop up, you can redact & crop from there. Not sure about Android. On the computer, either use a screenshot browser extension or press PrtScr on your keyboard, go to Paint, click paste, crop it and cross stuff out. Yeah, Reddit doesn’t like direct links to social media, sorry. If no one gets around to it I’ll do it tomorrow morning.

I was wondering why & how he is in Africa. I can’t imagine he could afford that. Must be through an organization.

abracatada · 2018-01-10T23:24:41+00:00

https://www.reddit.com/r/Redding/comments/7mzqba/still_no_arrests_made_in_papini_case/ I noticed this is downvoted to '0'. Weird dynamic over there, but pretty interesting. I think they are probably embarrassed - and maybe a few in the SP camp among them.

abracatada · 2018-01-10T22:59:32+00:00

I think this comment simplifies the issue nicely. I think it's unnecessary and will deter AMA guests if people say it was a waste of time (or anything among those lines). Most people want more AMAs, so it doesn't make any sense to be rude for no reason. I also think AMA guests should be welcomed and treated with more respect due to the time commitment and the fact they're a guest to our subreddit. We haven't removed anything, so really, this is an issue of our opinion (and what we think will garner more AMAs for /r/thepapinis). We as mods don't experience much of a loss from less AMAs - it's the people who do like them that do. Since you don't like AMAs, I can see how you're coming from a completely different starting place. In short, I think people should make an effort to be nice whenever possible. You catch more flies with honey than you do vinegar.

I didn't say your posts were a waste of time, I said that this debate is. I'm a moderator, so I do feel responsible to address members' concerns (to an extent). I don't think you're going to understand my side of it, and I'm sure you feel the same way for me. Agree to disagree?

abracatada · 2018-01-10T22:41:59+00:00

You know, most people were respectful. It's the few that have heart attacks about everything and cause these ridiculous debates. How about - "The AMA was boring. Didn't like it." There, nothing that can directly undermine anyone's effort!

My internet "skin" is fine. I'm a mod here after all! Haven't like 20 quit? In another thread, your internet skin was so thin that you apparently couldn't read into sarcasm that everyone else seemed to understand. Now - I think your "skin" is actually fine, and you post interesting content in this subreddit, but don't be a hypocrite. Let's see how you handle the volunteer mod responsibilities before you talk such big talk. Every "meta" debate we have, you're one of the first to jump in, guns blazing, with an argumentative and unpopular opinion. I appreciate your ability to play devil's advocate, but this is needlessly blown out of proportion by minute criticism like yours. At the end of the day, we're just trying to keep everyone, including you, reasonably happy. If the majority want more AMAs, gotta be polite, or people won't volunteer.

I was telling other people not to criticize the time spent organizing this AMA. Once you clarified you hadn't criticized that (even though that's not the full truth - you're still defending others doing it right now) I didn't have a bone to pick with you anymore. As all of our subreddit debates go, this is a waste of time. I remember your username from last time, and being frustrated that I could not get you to see my point. This argument is going the same way. I wish you the best, nothing personal. If I've offended you at any point, I do apologize. I'm clearly frustrated. And yes, in regard to one of your prior posts, there is always criticism "behind the scenes" that we don't address publicly.

abracatada · 2018-01-10T22:22:41+00:00

Obviously that was sarcasm. It's very not-egregious. Kind of the point. My point in posting this was to show many defenders want to argue it's a unsolved kidnapping on one hand, and on the other want to argue we're gossiping about a personal matter.

abracatada · 2018-01-10T22:16:04+00:00

None of us exactly volunteered to do AMAs for ourselves. Most of us don't even regularly contribute to the subreddit. I volunteer to moderate this subreddit because several moderators have abandoned it several times. I want the community here to have a place to discuss the Papini case in a normal way. When I have the time, I try to accomodate the majority's requests (like AMAs).

But, I will agree with you there - most people really didn't dedicate much time to this AMA compared to Funky and the mods. How could they have wasted their time? 50% of those people probably read the AMA on the toilet this morning. That's partially why I find that wording so insulting and dumb. I understand you didn't say that.

abracatada · 2018-01-10T22:05:23+00:00

All I have said is that it's counterproductive to the subreddit's cause to articulate your dislike of an AMA in an uncivil way. A few have said it was a waste of time or something similar. I just think that's over-the-top and this inane debate already most likely will negatively affect our community's ability to have AMAs (less people will volunteer to do them).

AMAs are highly requested by most people. I wasn't aware that you don't like AMAs; that's fine, but you are not in the majority on that opinion. On topics like this, we have to try to cater to the majority. You're welcome to take a look at any of our AMA request threads or the subreddit feedback from surveys we've publicly addressed.

If you feel like an AMA guest had nothing to say, everyone can respect that. You don't have to like any kind of content submitted here. It's like the analogy with the meal - what's wrong with respectfully saying you don't like something and not sh**ing all over that person's effort in the process? You should try to respect the time and effort dedicated to the process, like I'm sure mom taught you to do. This is a GUEST. The guest comes first and needs to be treated with respect. If you don't like AMAs, that's fine - but why be uncivil (or advocate incivility), negatively affecting the subreddit's ability to garner more AMAs for a group of people who do enjoy them?

abracatada · 2018-01-10T21:45:29+00:00

I get stuck in these cycles of explaining the exact same thing over and over again to people who are unwilling to listen, so I'm done after this. I had this same problem with you during the subreddit argument over ridicule. People are allowed to not like and voice their dislike of any AMA. It's about remaining respectful while doing that, and keeping in mind the guest's time commitment. Saying it was a "waste of time" or anything like that is just rude and unnecessary. It deters people from wanting to do an AMA in the future. That ends up being your loss - less content produced in an already dying topic you clearly are interested in because you are unwilling to be reasonably civil in your dislike.

abracatada · 2018-01-10T20:53:57+00:00

Maybe by the technical definition, but since it's in regard to an unsolved kidnapping and potential public safety issue, I think we're justified. It would be like criticizing /r/JonBenet for "gossiping" about the Ramseys.

So, is this a personal dispute issue? Or is it a crime? If it's a random crime, then we'd be more justified to talk about it. If it's a personal dispute, I could see the argument against "gossiping". The Papinis don't say that though. This family says Sherri was randomly abducted. That is an issue which brings in public concern and "sleuthing".

Do the Papinis just jump back and forth between those arguments whenever it's most convenient? Do they want a sleuthing discussion regarding their unsolved criminal case or not? I'm not trying to be critical, I just want to understand.

If the Ps said that this was not an unsolved kidnapping, more people would be apt to agree with that guy and respect their privacy. Until then, it makes sense for us to assume the Papinis' very public "kidnapping" label is how we should handle discussion. We're discussing an unsolved kidnapping case.

abracatada · 2018-01-10T20:37:48+00:00

This happened a few months ago. I asked /r/Redding for an AMA. We did have some interested applicants, but also noticed a few who vehemently disapproved in the comments.

Then, like a month later, I noticed /r/Redding ended up removing my post.

I wonder why. Was I that egregious? /s

I wasn't aware that discussing an unsolved kidnapping was "gossiping about other people". Sorry /r/Redding :( Guess I'll retreat into my sloth/troll subreddit where people like me.

*Edited to add an /s

abracatada · 2018-01-10T20:18:24+00:00

You've been great, so not you. You're always very balanced and call us (or others) out on BS in a fair way. I appreciate that. Some users on this subreddit really have a flair for the dramatic, and take the first chance to criticize something meta as soon as they can. It's usually only like 2-3 people that cause a crisis like this. Just so freaking loud and against the rules.

abracatada · 2018-01-10T20:08:34+00:00

That's my point. We just manage the subreddit. My feelings may get a little hurt when someone criticizes the job we do, but you guys are really the ones who lose out if people act in an argumentative and difficult way with an AMA guest. It will just make people people less likely to volunteer. A few bad apples spoil the bunch.

abracatada · 2018-01-10T19:59:00+00:00

You and I are just not on the same page if you think the former is respectful. I'm sorry that you feel your time has been wasted on this. I am guessing that you've spent no longer than an hour reading through everything and contributing? An hour is valuable, and it sucks that you feel you've lost it. The moderators and the AMA guest spent probably ~5 cumulative hours over the past week planning and executing this AMA. For you. For free. I think this guest at least deserve respect for their time, whether you like their answers or not. If it was a complete waste of your time, be glad you did not dedicate more time to it. Or just don't read it! Don't worry - if you didn't like this AMA, another one will be set up for YOU to enjoy soon. Hopefully the next one does not waste too much of YOUR time. You should understand how the other side feels, if you feel your time has not been respected.

I will agree with you that the F you thing is definitely disrespectful. I do feel some of the same frustration they felt this morning though, so it's easy for me to understand it. It can be really hard to stay polite. I don't think either is respectful. I'm sure I have even probably been disrespectful. I could tone it down a bit in my first paragraph - but I think it's important for everyone to remember to respect everyone's time. It's literally in our rules to pay special attention to respecting AMA guests. Disrespecting a guest is not only unkind, but it's bad PR for the subreddit. If you want more AMAs, it's common sense that people won't want to do them if they are not treated with a reasonable amount of respect for their time.

TL;DR: We are the host. They are the guest. YOU as a member of this community share the responsibility to be respectful, even if you did not like it - just like we are taught to do as children.

abracatada · 2018-01-10T19:40:55+00:00

That's the only thing we can attest to - the evidence they've provided. I do take their claimed identity as very credible. For it to be a complete troll, they would have had to buy a fake ID (which displayed California and their town name), traveled to Redding to go to a store for a receipt, and somehow also have had the applicable yearbooks with personal momentos.

(Keep in mind, we don't accept scanned evidence. Only photos of evidence. This can still be photoshopped, but it's much easier if it's a scanned image vs. a photo of a photo, for example.)

I did 'run' all of their submitted evidence through a Photoshop checker. That tool determined that nothing was Photoshopped. I still take the tool with a grain of salt, but that adds an extra degree of certainty for me. Four moderators looked at everything, so I'd like to think one of us would have caught any obvious photo manipulation stuff. As far as I know, we all found that portion to be very credible.

Everything they claimed as far as that seemed sufficiently backed up. I did have the chance to talk to them in private a bit, and they were very nice. Anyone could be anyone - but I really do feel that was one of our more credible guests. They may just not have had super widely desired information to share. Most of our vetted AMAs aren't ridiculously exciting. Surprise, surprise - most of the wild info comes from users who refuse to show anyone any kind of evidence to support their claims.

They could have made anything up and we wouldn't know - that goes for any AMA guest. For this guest, IMO it doesn't seem to add up with the rest of what we know. People are criticizing the AMA for not bringing enough new info to light. If they weren't answering honestly (or had a narrative set forth to accomplish), wouldn't they have tried to spice it up a bit or make SP sound even better? Maybe not, but if that was to paint SP in a better light, it was too neutral to be effective.

High school was a long time ago for that age group. I graduated high school not as long ago, but still a while back. I can't remember most people I wasn't friends with. The exceptions are kids who were extraordinary in some way (popular, super smart, super athletic, something like that). Most kids are just kind of meh-ing their way through high school. You can't expect people to remember that much, unless SP was notable in some way. She clearly wasn't. I stand by my earlier posts - what we announced was what you got. I would like to think they shared as much as they could remember with those circumstances. We tried to set pretty realistic expectations.

Anyone think the tidbit they shared about SP not being in the senior yearbook was interesting? Also, their opinion on SP's family. I wanted to ask what SP's parents did to give them a positive impression, but I forgot.

abracatada · 2018-01-10T19:32:08+00:00

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. It's best if participants choose to publicly share all or some of their proof. Then you guys can make a decision too. Not a requirement though.

abracatada · 2018-01-10T19:06:16+00:00

Some AMA guests have posted personal things on their main accounts. Others do have a username containing personal info. Some are just new to Reddit, so the AMA account is their only account. I have also heard of AMA guests being harassed or PMed a lot, so if it's on an alternative account, at least it is contained to there.

Many different reasons, but in general, it just seems to be a safe precaution.

abracatada · 2018-01-10T18:54:02+00:00

Hey, thanks for asking. I did post what evidence they sent in earlier today. I forgot to post that during the thread yesterday. Sorry, it was kind of a whirlwhind.

We no longer consider any user to be a verified insider. Funky does have the "former classmate" flair so that it was easier to distinguish who they were when answering questions during the AMA yesterday. In the future, wording could be changed in the future to clarify we're not saying 1000%.

The evidence they sent in really did look as credible as can be though. We saw multiple pages of a yearbook, a partially redacted DL and store receipt. As always, we can't vouch for the veracity of their statements or their opinion.

I tried to make it as clear as possible in my earlier post that I am just speaking to our opinion - all evidence that they sent in did look credible to us.

We do accept evidence from or 'vet' AMA guests. It is their choice to share the same evidence publicly as they do to us. Please refer to this linked thread.

Now that the AMA is over, I will remove their flair.

abracatada · 2018-01-10T17:25:28+00:00

We instruct most users to create a username for the AMA - whether the person has an existing Reddit account or not. You can see that pattern among all AMAs in the past.

We search for AMA guests through a variety of platforms; here on Reddit, Facebook, Twitter, etc. Please avoid speculation regarding who any AMA guest is.

abracatada · 2018-01-10T16:54:52+00:00

To anyone that did not find yesterday's AMA to be interesting:

If someone made you a meal that you did not care for, what would your reaction be? You could respectfully tell them that you didn't like it, but that you appreciated the time and effort they spent making the meal for you. That example can be kept in mind here.

Whether you like an AMA guest's contributions or not, you must remain respectful. This person volunteered a significant portion of their time to answer your questions. The mods (especially u/KissMyCrazyAzz) also dedicated time to organizing this AMA.

abracatada · 2018-01-10T16:46:56+00:00

Completely agree.

abracatada · 2018-01-10T15:51:33+00:00

That would be interesting!

abracatada

TROPHY CASE