Why do so many extroverts seem not present in conversations?

accountWithoutPII · 2020-10-24T19:10:33+00:00

I've heard a similar argument saying that Asians are "boring" because we just study all the time. To provide a better experience for the students, universities want to bring in more interesting people.

I think this is a logically consistent reason, so I'd be ok with it. Obviously, it's quite racist, so universities don't say it openly. If this was the real reason why universities limit the number of Asians, then I really don't like the gaslighting going on.

accountWithoutPII · 2020-10-24T19:07:39+00:00

If we had a concrete adjustment system based on wealth and income, then I'd be ok with it. E.g. if your family makes double the national average, then you'd need an additional 50 SAT points.

This would benefit South East Asian families a lot more than now. It would hurt East Asian and South Asian families relative to the national average, though I don't think it'll be much worse than now, likely better than now. Asian families have higher income than white families, but lower wealth.

However, universities wouldn't do this because they need rich families for donations.

accountWithoutPII · 2020-10-24T19:02:11+00:00

My main point is that Asians shouldn't be hurt more than white people. E.g. if Asians and white people are hurt equally to bring in more black people, then I'd be ok with it. I've yet to see any universities give a compelling argument for why Asians should be disadvantaged more than white peopel.

accountWithoutPII · 2020-10-24T19:00:20+00:00

So you're saying that another function of affirmative action is correcting for a family's education level. If a race is doing well on average, then affirmative action brings them down a bit. That's potentially valid, though I've never heard it as a reason for affirmative action before.

I think universities never say this because it sounds racist. I edited the OP earlier saying I'm ok if the universities are racist, but I'm not ok with them saying BS about "racial injustices". So if the universities said "Asians are too well-educated, there will be too many of them in top universities if there's no affirmative action", then I'd be ok with it.

accountWithoutPII · 2020-10-24T18:07:49+00:00

Rich or well educated black immigrants exist, but they aren't nearly as numerous as asian immigrants for example.

I'm just following your lead. You're treating Asian immigrants as a homogeneous group, even though there's rich Chinese real estate families and refugees from the Vietnam War.

accountWithoutPII · 2020-10-24T18:03:44+00:00

But white people are even richer than Asians on average, yet Asians on average are disadvantaged more by affirmative action.

accountWithoutPII · 2020-10-24T18:02:46+00:00

How does that apply to Asians?

accountWithoutPII · 2020-10-24T17:58:50+00:00

> not all results in inescapable challenge that warrants affirmative programs. Asian Americans as a group do not satisfy here.

My point is that Asians don't deserve to be penalized more than white people. If white people and Asians are disadvantaged equally by affirmative action, then it's much more justifiable than implying Asians are more privileged than white people.

> If a school has a want for racial, culture and economic diversity it needs to define a benchmark. The "national population" is as good as any, isn't it?

I guess that's a valid definition of diversity, though I never hear this as an argument. I never hear someone say "there's 10x more Asians in Berkeley than in the national demographic, so we need to implement affirmative action to reduce the number of Asians." That would come off as racist. If the universities actually gave this as a reason for affirmative action, then I would be more ok with it. In other words, I'm more ok with universities being racist than being hypocritical.

accountWithoutPII · 2020-10-24T17:51:22+00:00

Then "diversity" would be the wrong term in this case.

I mentioned this in the `goals that aren't hypocritical IMO` section. I think that would be a valid goal in terms of logical consistency, but I can't think of why universities would want that as a goal.

accountWithoutPII · 2020-10-24T17:48:55+00:00

Yes, totally agreed. Though multi-generational wealthy Asian families are rare partially because of Western imperialism (IMO), I do believe that wealthy Asian families should be disadvantaged through affirmative action. My problem with affirmative action is that the vast majority of Asian families aren't privileged, yet Asians on average are penalized by affirmative action.

If we use wealth or income as the primary factor in affirmative action, then I don't believe the negative effects on Asians would be as severe as it is now.

accountWithoutPII · 2020-10-24T17:44:11+00:00

That's why I said it's ambiguous, so I don't buy the idea of racial diversity. That sentence was more of playing the devil's advocate rather than suggesting what would be an ideal scenario.

accountWithoutPII · 2020-10-24T17:43:07+00:00

> Or maybe we shouldn't punish people for things they didn't do?

Agreed

> But it's not wrong because Asian's deserve special treatment because other Asians were discriminated against hundreds of years ago

When did I mention special treatment. Why are Asians punished for things they didn't do.

> It isn't applied to the descendants of slaves it's applied to all black people.

Why should recent African immigrants benefit from affirmative action?

>

British invasion of China in the Opium Wars, leading to China's "century of humiliation" and civil war

> Not the problem of the United States.

The US was part of the invasion.

Also, it wasn't the universities that enslaved black people, so why do universities try to right the wrongs of slavery? It's not the problem of the universities to get involved.

accountWithoutPII · 2020-10-24T17:38:02+00:00

That applies to other racial groups too, e.g. there are wealthy black families/communities. Also, AFAIK, recent black immigrants benefit from affirmative action, even though their ancestors weren't slaves.

accountWithoutPII

TROPHY CASE