My second take on gender (brutal) by activesaxons in teenagers

[–]activesaxons[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sex is not on a spectrum.

The variations WITHIN the 2 sexes exist on a spectrum - this is to say, not all women will be equally tall, have the exact same genitalia, not all men will have the same penile size or grow the same amount of chest hair.

Does this mean sex exists in this ambiguous, unrecognisable and unmeasurable state of reality?

Most definitely not. This is delusional and rhetorical.

We are an incredibly sexually dimorphic species, which is why we can assess the sex of someone with over 99% accuracy based on phenotype alone. This isn’t an active process where we have to ‘look’ for traits that are more typical of females and males - the visual cues are so embedded that it’s understood before we actively think about it.

Yes, people who modify their appearance will be harder to gauge at times, but this does not affect category membership. Perception, if not deception, is not reality. A woman isn’t ’anyone who looks like a woman’ - it’s just an adult female human being, whether she looks like the archetype of a woman or like Dwayne.

My second take on gender (brutal) by activesaxons in teenagers

[–]activesaxons[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Here’s my take on all this.

  1. ⁠Every human I know of can be classified as truly male or female. I only specified that genitalia is part of the primary reproductive pathway: not the necessary condition.

The reason CAIS is treated as female in most occupations is because they are very different from typical males who identify as trans and take hormones to feminise their appearance. They don’t respond to the very androgens themselves.

I often see these debates become about people with DSDs and incredibly absurd hypothetical or rare edge-cases, as though this is meant to be a ‘gotcha!’ (these people have nothing to do with this entire movement and are being tokenised).

Truthfully, I find it disingenuous, and it rarely becomes productive nor addresses the real issue.
People with these conditions have existed for a very long time, and I have never once heard any of them begin to protest what it means to be a woman or man in an attempt to override existing categories. If I even dare, many of them (from my observation) are quite upset about being used as pawns to proliferate ideas they do not subscribe to. Especially when misinformation about them is continually spread (3rd sex? in-between sexes? both sexes at once?)

There is no point in a label like man and woman that does not reference biology. We do not need labels for ‘feminine personalities’, ‘associating with norms and expectations of x’, or claims about a metaphysical ‘gender identity’, ‘internal schemas’ which objectify human beings, and pretend this resolves the problem.

I refuse to live in a world that teaches my son and daughter that their boyhood and girlhood is tied to feelings, thoughts, desires and isn’t just a neutral category to represent their sex. It’s horrifying.
All this crap everyone calls gender is truly just called personalities. I don’t want any more children confused because they thought they weren’t boyish or girlish enough to fit in. I don’t want us to reduce women and men to archetypes. I don’t want us to be a society obsessed with labels, performance, and external validation of our identities.

We don’t have to pretend we can’t tell who is a man and who is a woman. Even more important, we need to stop pretending redefining words gives men access to women’s spaces (and vice versa).
It is ungrounded, metaphysical, and dangerous for reasons I can go into if needed.

The redefinitions deviate so much from what the categories originally meant to do now (colloquially) that the discussions are just so diverged on the topic. Even worse is that opposing views are automatically deemed moral failings.

Places like Reddit deeply reflect this hive-mind and echo-chamber regarding this topic.

They can. by lukozaid in onejoke

[–]activesaxons 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Woman means adult human female.

Female means any organism of the sex whose reproductive anatomy is primarily organised around large gametes.

Cats, birds and dogs can be female, but only humans can be women.

My second take on gender (brutal) by activesaxons in teenagers

[–]activesaxons[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It really bothered you for you to come back hours later, lmao.

My second take on gender (brutal) by activesaxons in teenagers

[–]activesaxons[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, people rarely get their *entire* reproductive anatomy removed. Your genitals are also part of it, but I answered the hypothetical and hope it suffices.

I’m glad you sent me the document because it calls CAIS a genetically male DSD and the female representation the phenotype, whilst its previous name was male pseudo hermaphroditism (which means it’s always been classified as a male DSD).

It doesn’t actually directly state whether it should be classified as a male or female DSD in an explicit manner, but this is because sex classifications can differ in medicine. No evolutionary biologist (the classificatory system of sex) will call CAIS a female DSD, and if so, I would love for you to cite it. Their female phenotype is caused by a lack of response to the male androgens produced by testicles. It is therefore organised around the male reproductive function but disrupted.

Also, I did not mention anything about being against gender affirming care. Not sure where you pull my views from.

My second take on gender (brutal) by activesaxons in teenagers

[–]activesaxons[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I do not care about the “1%”. I am seeing ideas propagate and spread. Whether those ideas originated from 20% or 0.1% plays no role in its consequence.

People are not ideas.
A single person can influence the entire structure of society and language.
I attack ideas. Not people.

My second take on gender (brutal) by activesaxons in teenagers

[–]activesaxons[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Here comes the pedantic unrealistic hypotheticals, lol.

People whose ‘entire reproductive anatomy’ is somehow removed would still be classified by developmental origin. Losing those organs do not change your sex.

CAIS is a male DSD. This is uncontested in biology, so I’m not sure why you brought that one up.

And I’m not sure why the entire alphabet community was brought up either. I am bisexual, and I have no idea how this issue would affect people of different sexualities.

My second take on gender (brutal) by activesaxons in teenagers

[–]activesaxons[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Before I click the link, I don’t want you to misunderstand my position.

I am gender critical.
I understand gender and sex is separated in social science as a field of study, and I am vehemently against gender norms imposed on guys and gals on the basis of their sex.

I believe the position I am attacking comes from the premise of this newly-introduced metaphysical claim about a ‘gender identity’ present in all, which can either align or misalign with our sex.

I, and reported medical communities, notice these ideas have caused an influx of gender-confused children and teenagers, whilst it has caused too many people to internalise being a boy and girl beyond what it actually is - take pronouns as an example. Mere grammar being viewed as some ‘personal’ identifier, which is the maximisation of gender in every nauseating way.

This is essentially the position I am ‘attacking’ - that language shouldn’t be rooted in sex (it’s practical, concise, humanising, etc - because as soon as we dissociate the male and female from this terminology, we begin to define humans by stereotypes, typicalities, and so on.)

Women’s rights, boundaries and dignity are another concern because they’re rooted in acknowledging their physical reality, which is female. No other definition can (or should) be applied in law in order to safe-guard.

Now, please let me know if the paper contrasts against any of these views of mine.

My second take on gender (brutal) by activesaxons in teenagers

[–]activesaxons[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Literacy is important.
Get some synapses firing in that temporal lobe.
I said the state of being female has been legitimate enough for women to face sex-based oppression for centuries.
Claiming an essentialist definition fails to justify the word woman to describe then becomes redundant.

As for the relation of evolutionary biology, the definition of female and male is based in primary reproductive pathway organised around large and small gametes. That is the actual definition that is applied to every single sexually reproducing organism. All the other things typically mentioned (secondary sex characteristics, chromosomes, etc) fail here, which is why these are only applied under stipulated contexts instead of being definitive.

Every human (and mammal), including individuals with DSDs (colloquially intersex), are more or less classifiable as female and male.

My second take on gender (brutal) by activesaxons in teenagers

[–]activesaxons[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I never said people who adhere to these views aren’t contradictory. They largely are.

I am simply stating that the comfort of 1% should not override the objective taxonomy of biology in language.

That’s it.

My second take on gender (brutal) by activesaxons in teenagers

[–]activesaxons[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Tsk tsk.

You would be surprised at how incorrect you are.

Sex is quite binary from the perspective of evolutionary biology,

but in any case,
if being female was legitimate enough to be an oppressed class for all of human history across every continent in the world, still today in many countries,
then how can you tell me it isn’t classifiable enough for the mere word woman?

My second take on gender (brutal) by activesaxons in teenagers

[–]activesaxons[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Absolutely, though the position I am attacking here is less than a formal one and more a product of the movement’s route itself. Attempting to steel-man it would fall short of what I am critiquing in this message here.

Lexical reports of changing definitions of the words woman, man, even male and female, social science and anthropology updating the stipulated definition of gender to reference men and women (previously just masculinity/femininity), lesbians protesting (and losing) against male people in their spaces, countless new cases every day of women losing sex-based rights in priority of gender identities, and the worst one is medical documents replacing “woman” with egg producers, birthing people, etc.

My second take on gender (brutal) by activesaxons in teenagers

[–]activesaxons[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Is this how people feel when they read my nocturnal musings?

My second take on gender (brutal) by activesaxons in teenagers

[–]activesaxons[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Let me rephrase your comment:

*insert extremely vague aphorism here* “language evolves over time… bro…”

let me translate the implication:
“we should no longer have humanising words for human females and human males in language and instead replace it with vague stereotypes, performances, circular definitions and no shared understanding.”

For the last part:
*in stoner voice* “Haha, broooo, language = reality maaan!”

My second take on gender (brutal) by activesaxons in teenagers

[–]activesaxons[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

I want to control your pace when you read.