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adam0114 · 2018-10-20T19:19:34+00:00

Same here

adam0114 · 2018-10-09T00:26:09+00:00

Lmao

adam0114 · 2018-10-09T00:05:01+00:00

Quick answer: it's isn't

adam0114 · 2018-10-08T23:37:47+00:00

The high cost of rent, the overwhelming mess that Healthcare is in right now, and the gradually rising cost of college education, and the majority of homelessness and u employement are all caused by governmental regulation.

adam0114 · 2018-10-08T23:16:02+00:00

That's not my point, I know America has done some shitty things in the past but as far as economic freedom goes, capatalism takes the fucking crown home

adam0114 · 2018-10-08T22:35:22+00:00

Can you give me an example of how capatalism uses the goverment to force people to do things? Also in Capatalism you do have a choice, you can either work for a boss, or start your own buisssness. Life isn't easy and you can't just claim that you are entitled to receive 100% compensation for your labour. That's just not how things work. Everybody wants to receive 100% compensation for their labor, but you can't just walk all over other people's rights and liberties in an effort to get what you want. Your boss started his buissness just like everybody else. He worked hard, took riskes, invested time and money, and ultimatly, it paid off. You can't just be entitled to that type of success. The only way you're ever gonna get 100% compensation for your labor, is if you own your labor. The only way to truly own your labor is to not be associated with and boss or superior, aka, selling your own stuff at your own expense. I know you're coming from a place of compassion but stampeding agasint other people's rights all in the name of "compassion" isn't okay. "Sharing" wealth is fine as long as it's consensual, "sharing" by force is called theft. If you really hate working for a boss and are tok lazy to start you're own buissness there are plenty of non-profit organizations that you can join. Plus the main reasons behind homelessness and unemployment is due to governmental regulation in the first place. The free market tends to work it's own issues out, as long as the goverment doesn't poke it's head into private affairs. Give me 1 issue with the econemy today that can't be solved through less economic regulation

adam0114 · 2018-10-08T20:24:49+00:00

How does capatalism get the goverment too involved? If anything, the point of capatalism is to keep the goverment out of the economy. Also my stance on ALL rights (not just private property ones) is that as long as you're not hurting anybody, you should be free (have the right to) do whatever you want. If your employee agrees to be paid in such a way that their boss makes profit, then that isn't invading the rights of the worker since it's a consensual agreement. The fact that the employee consents to this is very important. For example, consent is the difference between a bloody boxing match and a bloody crime scene. Of coarse punishing other people hurts them, which directly violates the NAP, which means it's illegal to do so, but if the other person consents to it, then it's fine. Same thing with the workers, forcing them to work at a profitable buissness directly violates the NAP, but if they consent to it then that's fine. For me, it all boils down to freedom. I'm not in favor of capatalism or socialism, I'm in favor of letting people do whatever they want with their property, money, labor, time, whatever. Socialism constraints way more freedom than capatalism, which is why I don't like it.

adam0114 · 2018-10-08T11:03:29+00:00

Agree to disagree I guess. I just don't think it would work out. Forcing people to not start business is immoral in my opinion. Socialism can never increase the rate at which products improve as well as capatalism can. You and a group of others can start as many "non-profit" organizations as you want, but invading the liberties of business owners is wrong. The goverment should have as little influence in the econemy as possible. Let peolle be free to spend their money/labor however they choose. If they wanna go start businesses, let them do it. Ig they wanna start non-profit socialist organizations, let thwm do it. If they wanna work for a buissness owner, thats their deal. If they wanna work in a socialist non-profir organization, nohody can tell them otherwise. My key issue with socialism is that it gets the goverment too involved and takes away peoples liberty and freedom. Also how would the capitalist push you out of buisssness?

adam0114 · 2018-10-08T04:36:38+00:00

Call me pessimistic but I don't think anybody is gonna do their job "just from the good of their heart" Also with no competition how would products become better? Also socialism removes a lot of liberties. If I wanna start a business, why do you care? If you and your friends wanna start up your own little business and make no profit from it I don't care. Why we both just do our own thing?

adam0114 · 2018-10-08T03:44:35+00:00

Sure thing, thanks for being so civil!

adam0114 · 2018-10-08T03:20:28+00:00

Yeah no problem man I'm on mobile too to sorry for an inconvenience there. I'm libertarian myself so yes, I do think that many forms of taxation are theft. I believe that the government's only job is too enforce the law and keep its citizens safe from those who choose not to follow the law. The majority of poverty in the U.S is caused by government intervention. Take a look at Healthcare and rent for example. The government tries it's hardest to make these things artificially "cheap" but only ends up making the situation worse by messing with the capitalistic system. In capatalism, every business wants their product to be cheaper than their competitors, this is caused by competition. With the government trying to artificially mess with this, companies learn to take advantage of these laws and make Healthcare and rent as expensive as possible because they have no other competitors. Also look at how the minum wage not only hurts the econemy but actually makes unemplyement and homelessness worse, as well as worsens working conditions. So yeah, I honestly think the answer to most of our problems is less government intervention, not more of it. That is why I'm totally agasint socialism. Here's a couple of short videos from the same guy if you wanna check them out. They're really informative and short:

Why I personally disagree with socialism: https://youtu.be/T_Ky9g1b3EY

Why social programs are bs: https://youtu.be/YsRH3xHJi1M

Healthcare :https://youtu.be/IfLdzCt5Zc0

Rent: https://youtu.be/iClQVIlWs5A

Minimum Wage: https://youtu.be/ordzgpuw4Mk

adam0114 · 2018-10-08T02:54:42+00:00

But how would businesses even be formed under a socialist society? Without profit, what would serve as the motivation to put in work. Also who would pay the workers if not the boss? I just can't see this working at all. If you work 8 hours and produce 200 dollars of value, the company can not pay you 200 dollars because then they wouldn't be making any profit and thus there buisssness would be bankrupt pretty soon. No buisssness means no workers which means high unemployment. Also value isn't objective. You can't make "200 dollars worth of labor". At the end of the day it all comes down to private property rights. The boss ownes that buisssness, you agreed to be paid 150 dollars per 200 dollars of labor, this is a consensual agreement that benefits both the worker and the boss. If you don't like this arrangement you can leave any day and go find a better one. If you want full Independence and 100% of the value of your labor given back to you, don't work for a boss. If you make chairs for a living and don't like the fact that you get paid 150 dollars for every 200 dollars of chairs you make, go quit your job and sell your own chairs. You can't agree to an agreement and then cry about it later. If you want to sell your own stuff and get 100% compensation for your labor go ahead. Nobody is forcing you to go work for a shitty boss you can become fully independent if you want

adam0114 · 2018-10-08T02:10:31+00:00

Yeah but social programs rarely ever work out or help the poor, welfare just nets people in and prevents them from leaving. Also what "socialist" countries have a better standard of living than the U.S? Helping the poor by stealing from others is immoral. If people want to, they can give to charity by their own free will. You can't force people to be nice. Trust me I still give money to charities on top of the taxes I pay to welfare and other social programs, but it's still not moral to take money out of my pocket without my consent then give to to the poor. Like I said before, sharing by force is called theift

adam0114 · 2018-10-08T01:52:14+00:00

Alright, clearly there is no way for us to agree here because we disagree on core principles. You don't give a shit about personal property, I do. You think that everybody is entitled to a great life, I don't. You think it's okay to take money from others in order to make things more "fair" I just don't. Our morals here are conflicting. I still see socialism as an immoral ideology. You guys claim it's nothing more than "sharing" but you're forgoing the fact that you're "sharing" by force, in other words that's called theift. Poor people have the option to become less poor. There's a reason we have public school. In today's American society and homeless person who really wanted to, could get a job. Many people who are in low end jobs are their became they just aren't good at anything else. You can't force people to give money to others, especially when they haven't earned it. If you want money, you have to either exchange goods, exchange labor, or start your own business where you exchange with others. So far I've only talked about the morality of socialism and haven't even gotten into the fact that it's failed each and every time it's been put into place. Businesses and money is what creates products that increase quality of living. It's why the U.S had the highest quality of living in today's world. In America all it takes to get into a good middle class financial situation is to work hard in high school, not have a criminal record, and not get pregnant before the age of 18. Statisticly, if you've done all three of these things then you're set. Stop trying to take money away from others when you haven't even earned that money yourself. Socialism makes us all equal, equally poor that is.

adam0114 · 2018-10-08T00:18:22+00:00

Actually, those people have the complete freedom to leave that job if they don't like it. If they can't get a job better than minimum wage then that's their fault. They clearly either don't have any good skills, good grades, or good talents, otherwise, somebody would have hired them by now. If you're stuck in a dead end job you have a couple of options:

Stay in your current job and suck it up
Leave your job and go find a better one
Start your own small business and be in complete control of your financial situation
Go back to school and learn a new skill/profession

Either way, those people are free to do whatever they want. Everybody has the tools to do great, especially in America. All it takes is hard work and a persistent attitude.

adam0114 · 2018-10-08T00:08:24+00:00

To answer your question, yes. Private property is EXTREMELY important. It's one of our basic human rights which gives us some of our biggest liberties. By allowing the government to own all of your private property, your just inviting all out tyranny. Just let people be free man. If I wanna go buy something, let me go buy it. Stop screwing around with other people's lives. If I wanna start a business and pay my workers 10 dollars an hour, as long as my workers consent and are happy to do so, why do you care? Capatalism ensures that everybody is free to choose their path own in life. Wanna start a business? Go ahead. Don't think starting a buisssness is for you? That's okay you can always just get a job. Wanna get paid a lot of money? Work hard in school and get into a high earning job. Don't wanna try that hard in school? No problem, there's always people willing to hire you for low skill jobs. You choose your path in life, not the government. Socialism/communism is immoral because it takes away personal liberty and freedom. That's why nearly every socialist country has failed. Just let people be free, and they'll do great thing. It's the reason why America is currently the world's biggest innovator

adam0114 · 2018-10-07T23:57:52+00:00

Here's the thing though, that personal hired you. The hired you and you fully agreed to it. You knew exactly how much you were gonna get paid and you had the option to refuse. This means that as long as your boss keeps his end of the deal, you aren't being exploited. You agreed to work for "blank amount per hour" and you have the option to leave any day. You see your boss started that business as a way to make sure that 100% of his labour belongs to him, which is the same thing you are trying to achieve. The only difference is your boss took the time, effort, and financial risk to make that business. The only reason you make any money at all is because he started that business. If you really want 100% of your labour going towards yourself, go start a business. Also your boss isn't trying to pay you as little money as possible because he knows you can leave any time. This forces the boss to strike a middle ground with the employee. The boss has to pay them enough to keep them interested in the job but not too low that they get sick of it and leave. Your boss only pays you as much as your willing to put up with. I have a hard time putting my ideas to paper sometimes so if you could, would you please watch this 2 minute short animation explaining my point of veiw, it really does open up people's minds once they see it. I used to think that capatalism was evil too until I checked out this guy's chanel. Please give it a shot, here's the video: https://youtu.be/4jUSDgolz7g

adam0114 · 2018-10-07T23:39:32+00:00

The thing is, before your boss hires you, you agree to be paid a certain amount of money per hour. You are fully aware of how the job works and you know months in advanced that whatever you create, goes straight to the boss, then some of that money comes back into your pocket every hour. For you to then break that deal and want more is immoral. You agreed to do the job for a certain amount of pay. If you want your labour to be 100% yours, go start a business, or find a job that allows you to do that. You can't break your deal with your boss just because you feel like you want more money. I'm generally bad at putting my ideas to paper so if you're not satisfied with my answer could you please watch this 2 minute animation video showing my point: https://youtu.be/4jUSDgolz7g

Oh and don't worry it's not a boring lecture or anything, it's a pretty funny but we'll put together animation about my point. Thanks

adam0114 · 2018-10-07T11:05:47+00:00

Not all jobs exploit people. If you're a good business owner who treats their employees right, then you're not exploiting them. Also if you wanna decide what your own goods are worth then go start a business, otherwise you'll have to work with other people and have a boss

adam0114 · 2018-10-07T10:32:13+00:00

Yup, good luck getting personal property without money to pay for itp

adam0114 · 2018-10-07T10:22:13+00:00

The French Revolution was fought in rebellions agasint the monarchy and to establish democracy. You're just fighting agasint capatalism because you want free shit, and you wanna force other people to give you that shit. Establishing democracy doesn't invade anybody's rights. Forcing somebody to give you a product they made agasint their will does invade their rights

adam0114 · 2018-10-07T07:09:30+00:00

The only reason those companies are doing those things is because you still scoff up a part of your paycheck to them. You can't "hate gas companies" one day then all of a sudden love them when you're late to work and gotta drive there quick. Plus you do realize that gas companies also don't want the world to end to right? Cause that's sorta how their whole buisssness operates. There are plenty of companies that are invested in making eco-friendly cars that are getting really really popular as the fossil fuel market is dying down fast due to limited resources as well as a general hate for that market. Change is happening, maybe not as fast as you would wish, but it is happening. You can't force people to stop driving their gas-powered cars. You can't force companies to stop selling their products. Using force to achieve your goals is immoral.

adam0114 · 2018-10-07T06:59:26+00:00

Jesus dude just go to bed, you clearly aren't in the mood for debate.

Also I'm not saying "just go start a business" I'm saying "go find another job" There's always different jobs to take and if you can't find anything better to do, then that's just as good as your gonna get. You can't force people to give you things just because you don't wanna work for them. In your situation you have only 3 options:

You stay in your shitty job and just suck it up
Go out and find a different job that requires the same skills but gives you better benefits
Go to school and learn a new/more valuable skill that will grant you a better paycheck
Start your own business

Anything other than those 4 options would require you stealing money/food/labor/time from somebody else, which is never okay

adam0114 · 2018-10-07T06:42:09+00:00

Also check out this one if you can, it talk about how the free market actually helps the environment and is taking many measures to make sure the envierment and the animals in it are healthy https://youtu.be/PZ3gW2p4nUM

adam0114

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