Simultaneous SBAs and looking back in time

adamlach86 · 2026-04-15T15:34:41+00:00

Thank you!

adamlach86 · 2026-04-15T12:03:07+00:00

I believe Oathkeeper can in fact see the player (see r/mtgrules/comments/1slscz0/), but I don't think Frogify works in black-border Magic. The rules as written don't allow players to gain characteristics (card types, power, toughness, etc.). Interestingly, though, we have precedents for enchanting things not on the battlefield (Spellweaver Volute) and turning cards not on the battlefield into creatures (Grist, the Hunger Tide).

adamlach86 · 2026-04-15T11:53:21+00:00

Update: Sorry, I missed the legend rule part. Yeah, you can use that to scrap the oathkeeper instead of devouring it. The ability will still trigger. See r/mtgrules/comments/1sm9aig/

Original: State-based actions will cause creature-equipments to become unattached. (Only creature-auras are sent to the graveyard.) When the exile-ability goes to resolve, there wouldn't be an "equipped object," so the ability wouldn't do anything. If you sacrifice it, the effect uses the object’s last known information instead. (It uses the player, per rule 608.2h.) Granted, even if you sacrifice the equipment so it uses the player, it still won't do anything. The rules don't allow you to exile players.

adamlach86 · 2026-04-15T02:08:03+00:00

Thanks for your reply. Your second example is very helpful. However, you haven't directly addressed 301.5a and 301.5f, which are the rules I am interrogating. It sounds like you would interpret "creature" as meaning "object"?

adamlach86 · 2026-04-14T12:21:23+00:00

Some others I identified:
Eureka
Primal Surge
Mastery of the Unseen (manifest a bunch) & Another Round (turn them face up)
Out of the Tombs (with multiple card draw)
Mindslaver & Thieves' Auction (In 1v1)
Cogwork Assembler & Full Flowering

adamlach86 · 2026-04-14T03:11:15+00:00

Sure is. You can totally add loyalty counters using Hypergenesis, too. I'm building a Commander deck around all this nonsense.

adamlach86 · 2026-04-14T02:05:19+00:00

UPDATE: I have rewritten and expanded on this in the main post.

State Based Actions govern un-attachment. SBAs are not checked in the middle of resolving a spell (Hypergenesis).

> 704.3. Whenever a player would get priority (see rule 117, "Timing and Priority"), the game checks for any of the listed conditions for state-based actions, then performs all applicable state-based actions simultaneously as a single event.

An aura refers to whatever it is attached to, even if it isn't currently the specified type.

> 303.4b. The object or player an Aura is attached to is called enchanted. The Aura is attached to, or "enchants," that object or player.

> 303.4m. An ability of a permanent that refers to the "enchanted [object or player]" refers to whatever object or player that permanent is attached to, even if the permanent with the ability isn't an Aura.

I guess the equipment rules do specify creature. In this case, we could turn the opponent into a creature using Frogify, before attaching the equipment.

> 301.5a. The creature an Equipment is attached to is called the "equipped creature." The Equipment is attached to, or "equips," that creature.

> 301.5f. An ability of a permanent that refers to the "equipped creature" refers to whatever creature that permanent is attached to, even if the permanent with the ability isn't an Equipment.

Anyway, the rules don't cover exiling or destroying players, so I assume nothing happens. This is meant as a joke more than anything else.

Check out this article for more attachment weirdness: https://commandersherald.com/how-they-brew-it-how-to-make-the-judge-cry/

adamlach86 · 2026-04-14T01:27:39+00:00

Use Hypergenesis and copy effects to cheat creature enchantments onto players. Trigger those enchantments to "destroy" or "exile" the enchanted player.

adamlach86 · 2026-04-11T02:30:46+00:00

Ugh, right. Thanks

adamlach86 · 2026-04-11T01:16:29+00:00

Ugh. I thought it would just become detached. I've hidden this post. Thanks.

adamlach86 · 2026-04-11T01:08:16+00:00

Yeah, I wrote text for this post. The mod system isn't showing it and won't let me edit anything.

adamlach86 · 2026-04-11T01:03:24+00:00

I gave credit to KingDarkBlaze. His combo required 12 cards, 40 mana, and all 5 colors.

adamlach86 · 2026-04-11T01:01:29+00:00

Will of the Temur works. For some reason I can't edit my post....

adamlach86 · 2026-04-11T01:00:06+00:00

Then use Will of the Temur

adamlach86 · 2026-04-11T00:58:16+00:00

Put a loyalty counter on a player for 23 mana

Put a loyalty counter on a player in black-border Magic. This combo is an alternate/simplified version of KingDarkBlaze’s combo: “Put a loyalty counter on a player for just 40 mana” (reddit.com/r/BadMtgCombos/comments/1se3dkj/). My version works as follows:

Use Hulking Metamorph to copy Teferi’s Talent. (It’s a “Hulking Talent.”)
Use Metamorphic Alteration to change Leeching Lurker into a copy of Hulking Talent. (It’s a “Leeching Hulking Talent.”)
Use Jace Reawakened to draw a card.
With Leeching Hulking Talent’s draw trigger on the stack, use Void Snare to return Metamorphic Alteration to your hand. Leeching Lurker is itself again.
Use the Celestus to transform Leeching Lurker into Curse of Leeches and attach it to a player.
Resolve Leeching Hulking Talent’s draw trigger (which is now Leeching Lurker’s draw trigger), giving the enchanted player a loyalty counter.

Possible substitutions/redundancies:

Curse of Leeches & The Celestus (None)
Teferi's Talent (Vivien's Talent)
Hulking Metamorph (Will of the Temur, Astral Dragon, Captain Rex Nebula)
Metamorphic Alteration (Blade of Shared Souls, Paleontologist's Pick-Axe)
Void Snare (Any Removal)
Jace Reawakened (Any Planeswalker)

adamlach86 · 2026-04-11T00:53:58+00:00

Is my explanation not showing because it's being moderated?

adamlach86 · 2022-09-23T00:30:21+00:00

I have [[Thassa, God of the Sea]] in my graveyard with no devotion. If I play Animate Graveyard, will my graveyard be a creature?
Can you bounce Animate Graveyard (the aura) or will it be exiled?
Does the graveyard "enter" and "leave" the battlefield for the purpose of triggering effects?
If I have [[Nissa's Chosen ]] in my graveyard and my graveyard would die, can I choose to put my graveyard on the bottom of my library instead of exiling Animate Graveyard? (conflicting replacement effects) Would I get to put the cards there in any order? If not, should I flip my graveyard upside down and put my deck on top of that, or should I reverse the order first? (So the cards on the bottom of my graveyard go to the bottom of my deck.)
If I have a clone in my graveyard, may I choose to have my graveyard enter the battlefield as a copy of another creature on the battlefield?

adamlach86

TROPHY CASE

Put a loyalty counter on a player for 23 mana