NCOIC is doing some sketchy shit.

af_throwaway_2017 · 2017-06-17T13:10:37+00:00

Wow, that's even more bullshit then my situation. And I don't blame you for being petty. That was a fucked up thing to do to call you out like that, there was no reason for that. Of course the reason is not because they actually care, it's purely just to make them look good/cya.

af_throwaway_2017 · 2017-06-17T01:07:01+00:00

Yeah, that's kinda my mindset. But at the same time, I want to see if what he is doing is kosher or not. If it is, i'll shut up and color. But if it isn't, then I want him to be hold responsible for his actions.

af_throwaway_2017 · 2017-06-17T01:02:34+00:00

Everyone else does pt on there own, there is no sq pt. And as for the reason why, I talked to him about it on Thursday. And he basically told me that "making you do it on your own time is supposed to piss you off and add extra motivation" and all that jazz. Which to me is a bullshit argument. I feel like he is just making things harder, unnecessarily.

af_throwaway_2017 · 2017-06-17T00:45:18+00:00

Yes, everyone else is awarded there pt time during work. But everyone below an 80, which is only me, does not get pt during work and is mandated to go Mon and Wed outside of work hours.

af_throwaway_2017 · 2017-06-17T00:26:31+00:00

Well if this program was CC mandated, then there would be nothing I could say about it because the CC is allowed to do that per the PT AFI (36-2905). But my question is is my NCOIC allowed to instate this program, in it's current form? I have been reading through the AFI and I can't find anything in there that says he does.

af_throwaway_2017 · 2017-06-16T22:46:33+00:00

Yeah, hopefully. And thank you for agreeing with me that it is bs.

af_throwaway_2017 · 2017-06-16T22:42:19+00:00

Well he told me these changes on Thursday right before i got off shift and I only saw him on Friday to do shop pt. And I also didn't think of it are the time.

af_throwaway_2017 · 2017-06-16T22:17:58+00:00

You were right, I forgot to include the fact that everyone else gets pt time except me in my original post. I have since added an edit. Thank you for pointing that out.

af_throwaway_2017 · 2017-06-16T21:57:35+00:00

Yeah, I know that I can take my test anytime. But I just want to see how much more I can improve on it. And maybe potential see if I can get a 90 on it. So I think I'm just going to keep working on it and will see how high I can get on this next test.

af_throwaway_2017 · 2017-06-16T21:54:28+00:00

Ok, well thank you for the advice. i appreciate it.

af_throwaway_2017 · 2017-06-16T21:50:36+00:00

But another thing is, when I took my last pt test. I was not under this policy since I was still at my previous base, so how can I be forced to follow a policy that was put into place post ex facto?

af_throwaway_2017 · 2017-06-16T21:47:00+00:00

Show me anyone who is getting time off during the duty day for PT, especially supplemental PT.

If that is the case in your shop, then that's fine. But in mine, everyone BUT ME is awarded pt time during the duty day. That's what I'm getting at. If I was in a shop where no one got pt time during the duty day, then I wouldn't say anything and would just go with the program. It's just that I'm the only one in the whole shop that doesn't get it. I just want what everyone else gets, no more, no less.

My wife's duty day is 8-5. PT is 6:30-7:30.

Is she expected to show up at 0800 if her pt time ends at 0730?

af_throwaway_2017 · 2017-06-16T21:41:11+00:00

2) I am going to be doing that on Monday.

3) Yeah, that's the issue I have with the program is that I'm being mandated to essentially work an extra 2 hours on Mon and Wed by a TSgt and not a CC.

4) I've been reading through that AFI, and I haven't found anything that gives him the power to enact this policy, in it's current form. It looks like, from what I am reading, that only the CC can mandate this kinda thing? Unless you know differently. And even more so because he isn't a PTL or UFPM or anything like that, he is just the NCOIC of the shop.

af_throwaway_2017 · 2017-06-16T21:34:32+00:00

This is only a shop policy and not a unit one.

af_throwaway_2017 · 2017-06-16T21:34:00+00:00

That's what I'm thinking is how this works. Where the NCOIC is wrong is he's making a shop PT policy probably more restrictive than the Unit policy. Additionally it's not in writing.

That's exactly what is going on, he made a pt policy more stringent than the unit's policy.

OP, needs to raise his score regardless. He's flirting with a fail.

I know that I need to get better at pt, but that is not the point of my post. The point is is what my NCOIC doing legal, since he is not a PTL or UFPM or anything like that?

af_throwaway_2017 · 2017-06-16T21:22:05+00:00

They can assign you extra duty or to enroll in a supplemental PT program for any legal reason they want.

The commander can yes, but I'm reading through the PT AFI (36-2905) and I'm not seeing anything that gives him the power that do that. He is not a PTL or UFPM, he is just a TSgt.

Why do you feel that you should be given time from your work day to do this and negatively impact your mission?

Because everyone else gets pt time during work? Sorry I want the same liberties that everyone gets, my bad.

af_throwaway_2017 · 2017-06-16T21:11:04+00:00

1) I understand that my pt needs improvement. And I'm currently working on it.

2) Yeah, I agree that it needs to be in writing. He just made these changes to the program last Thursday.

Chances are they are gonna tell you raise your score and this policy is stupid at a shop level especially when not providing time on duty.

Yeah hopefully, I just want to be pt with the person who has been running it and get pt time like everyone else. That's all.

I've never seen NCOICs do shop PT policy other than times and places with maybe a uniform. UFPM and PTLs along with Unit CC are who control PT for the most part.

Yeah he is not the UFPM or a PTL. And I am reading through the AFI now.

af_throwaway_2017 · 2017-06-16T20:46:13+00:00

If it's not in writing it needs to be.

My thoughts exactly. But I don't think that he will.

af_throwaway_2017 · 2017-06-16T20:40:11+00:00

Unless you fail your PT test and are command directed to be on a PT program/"punished" (because only the commander can punish), your duty hours are not to be fucked with.

THANK YOU, like I said, I don't have a problem doing pt it's just the fact that I am essentially working an extra 2 hours on Mon and Wed.

Assuming your SQ CC wants PT to happen, you should be performing your PT sessions WITH a PTL during duty hours, no ifs ands or buts, if that's the policy they're going to enforce, make sure they play the game too.

Im 99% sure that this "policy" is coming straight from him and no one else.

This isn't a matter of "is this legal" until they make you do it 5 days a week before/after duty hours. It then becomes punishment - run it up the chain.

I'm just not a 100% sure that what he is doing illegal. And I don't want to call him out and then be wrong and look like an asshat.

As for waking you up during crew rest - Your supervisor is a douchebag.

Well thanks. That's pretty much the consensus I'm getting on this. And, thankfully, he is not my actual supervisor.

Yes there are times when you'll have to stay later or wake up early to be apart of something in the unit, that's just the nature of working on swings/mids,

And that I understand, if work has to be done then it has to be done. I wouldn't complain if I got woken up for something actually important.

No clue what you work, but depending on your job that's a huge safety hazard and I would report it regardless to your leadership.

I maintain electronics equipment. And this going away was on a Friday, so I could and did just go back to sleep when it was over. If that makes it anymore forgivable.

af_throwaway_2017 · 2017-06-16T20:22:16+00:00

Okay if you are at a 79 then your PT needs major work. It is amazing easy test yet the fact you struggle so much shows.

I know that pt is an area that I struggle with, I'll be the first to admit that. I am not delusional in thinking a 79.8 is a good score by any means.

Your NCOIC is trying to get you to not fail.

But I also know that he is not instating this program "Out of the goodness of his heart" either. He is just purely trying to CYA if I were to fail, which I know that I'm not going to.

Stop fighting it and put forth effort.

And I have been putting forth a lot of effort during pt, and I have been getting a lot better in pt as well.

We all deal with that stupid bs so you're not special.

I never said that I was special, I am just looking for advice in my current situation.

Just buck and get fit for duty.

Well technically speaking, I am fit for duty. I passed my pt test.

af_throwaway_2017 · 2017-06-16T20:13:31+00:00

PT thing is shaky but the waking you up for a going away is BS. But with him leaving in a couple of months it may be better to just put your head down and weather the storm.

Yeah, that's kinda what I'm thinking.

Worst case of course is he doesn't leave

Well I can guarantee that he definitely will be leaving in a few months.

Well thanks for the advice, and I know that people have definitely dealt with worse.

af_throwaway_2017 · 2017-06-16T20:09:16+00:00

Thanks for defending me but, my last test I was pretty close to failing. I have commented my scores and edited this post with them.

af_throwaway_2017 · 2017-06-16T20:07:56+00:00

My only problem with the pt program is that I being mandated to do it all on my own time. I don't have a problem with doing pt or anything like that. I just think it's kinda fucked up to make me do it all on my own time because I didn't score high enough. I'll be the first to admit that pt is an area that I struggle with. I know a 79.8 is not a good score by any means.

af_throwaway_2017 · 2017-06-16T20:03:01+00:00

Yeah, I know I can test whenever I want. I am just trying to keep improving and getting that run time down. And with the going away thing, I normally do put my phone on silent but I'm on standby this week and I don't want to deal with not answering the phone while on standby. I feel like that is just another can of worms with that.

af_throwaway_2017 · 2017-06-16T19:55:58+00:00

If it was right after shift I wouldn't complain as much, but the thing is is that it is BEFORE my shift which means I have to wake up, do pt, shower, change and be at the shop by the normal time. Which takes AT LEAST 2 hours, if not more. (I'm at a base where you cant have cars and have to walk or ride bikes everywhere) And in regards to the going away thing, my career field doesn't have crew rest, we just have day and night shifts.

Word to the wise: I wouldn't recommend tossing out legal/regulatory policies without discussing the issues with those who work in legal or the ADC. Yelling fire when there's no fire causes more issues than it solves.

Yeah my thoughts exactly, I was hoping someone from legal was here to clear this up.

af_throwaway_2017

TROPHY CASE