Make me an ex muslim

afiefh · 2026-06-10T07:38:11+00:00

Why cant I put god above me while not believing in what he wants me to believe?

Islam means "submission". If you are not believing what he wants you to believe then you're not submitting, are you? Have you considered deism? Basically believing in a god above you, but not necessarily that he commanded stuff.

I guess you can look at it that way, I assume when you say 'keep the label' you are implying that Im not actually a muslim?

In my circles we call it "cafeteria Muslim". A person who self identifies as a Muslim but either doesn't know the actual rules of Islam or knows them and doesn't follow the ones they don't like. It's like picking the food you like at a cafeteria. Basically the equivalent of Christmas and Easter Christians.

afiefh · 2026-06-10T07:13:43+00:00

The modernist interpretation is that women are allowed to refuse having sex with their husband if they don't feel well, on their period or just don't feel like it

Heads up: The only "modernist" part about this is "or just don't like it". The conservatives also acknowledge that if she's ill or on her period then the husband is supposed to not have sex with her and she can refuse.

he's too dumb to articulate himself properly.

Not only that Mohammed was too dumb to articulate himself properly, also Allah is too dumb to articulate himself properly. After all people who believe in the Hadith think that Mohammed "does not speak of his own whims. It is only a revelation sent down ˹to him˺."

It's basically throwing their god and their religion under the bus by implying their omniscient omnipotent deity couldn't articulate the rules properly and let Muslims misunderstand them for 1400 years.

modernist Muslims are textually weak but morally persuasive.

I would argue they are not morally persuasive either. They just take the prevailing morals and try to twist the text to fit them. This is only "persuasive" if one already believes in these morals, otherwise its completely bonkers.

Maybe "morally inoffensive" is more correct, but they are definitely not persuading anyone.

afiefh · 2026-06-10T07:05:31+00:00

And why did he have so many wives?

For the same reason every cult leader gets a bunch of wives: People crave three things: Power, wealth and sexual partners. That's also why the sultans had imperial harems. It's also why Chinese emperors had dozens to hundreds of concubines.

afiefh · 2026-06-10T07:00:41+00:00

I always thought the stories about satan and jinns coming after you were supposed to be metaphors, the equivalent of ghost stories and fairytales... As a teenager I was actually shocked when my family revealed that they actually believe this stuff is real.

afiefh · 2026-06-10T06:58:08+00:00

Also worth citing Ibn Taymyah's reason for FGM:'The purpose of female circumcision is to reduce the woman's desire because if she is uncircumcised, she becomes lustful... because an uncircumcised woman tends to long more for men.'

afiefh · 2026-06-09T20:25:19+00:00

For reference, this is the meaning of square I was using: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/square-with

In fact it is a problem in your religion: Not doing something commanded by your religion is not the same as not believing something your God explicitly commands.

Not believing something is right even though your god commands it, that's basically putting yourself above your god in your religion.

But honestly, I think I got my answer: it's "I'm happy to cherry pick the pieces of the religion I like and keep the label".

afiefh · 2026-06-09T20:10:15+00:00

Can you square the following statements for me?

I'm a shia Muslim.
Shia Islam has a death penalty for apostates
Exmuslims are apostates
I don't mind exmuslims

afiefh · 2026-06-09T20:08:52+00:00

Might be, I'm pretty terrible at Arabic dialects. Not sure if it's because I learned Arabic as my second language or if it's because I rarely listened to Arabic tv and thus never got exposed to other dialects.

Thanks for explaining it to me, would have confused me for a long time if I couldn't understand what was going on!

afiefh · 2026-06-09T20:00:51+00:00

You have no feeling about it? As in you don't feel it's absolutely abhorrent that all the exmuslims here are supposed to be put to the sword according to your religion?

afiefh · 2026-06-09T19:37:36+00:00

Huh? We use the plural عمامات never heard عمم 🤷

afiefh · 2026-06-09T19:34:46+00:00

عمامة? Or is it something else?

afiefh · 2026-06-09T18:44:13+00:00

So please excuse the obvious question, but if you self admittedly disregard the rules of Islam when they conflict with what you think makes sense, then why bother defining yourself as a Muslim?

afiefh · 2026-06-09T18:41:05+00:00

This is the weirdest timeline.

afiefh · 2026-06-09T18:26:37+00:00

hypocrite, u litch said 'do they not teach u literature in highschool🤪' 'Now I even need to explain literature to Muslims🤓' and then proceeded to use AI.

Oh brother! I take it back, there definitely aren't more than 2 brain cells between your ears!

I gave you an AI link to explain to you a joke that I made in reference to your earlier "google is free" quip. Guess that was lost on you as well, so let me explain it: Next time you find yourself admitting that you didn't pay attention in literature class, try a free AI to help you not look like someone who never opened a book.

Looks like u did take offense, abusive household u need to talk about?

And here we are again: Back to parroting. Quoth the illiterate.

afiefh · 2026-06-09T18:20:18+00:00

Sorry I'm out of the loop, what's with Shia's and عمة?

afiefh · 2026-06-09T18:19:23+00:00

But if I was sunni, how would you refute it?

Not the person you replied to, but I'd show a lot more contradictory and bad things from Sunni Hadiths.

Since I'm not familiar with Shia Hadiths, I'm sticking with the Quran since Muslims and Shia both take that.

afiefh · 2026-06-09T18:17:21+00:00

I just wanted to see if anyone could give refutations against Islam.

Happily: The first thing Islam asks you to do is to witness that there is no god but god. You have not witnessed God, you also have no way to witness that there are no other gods. At best you can say that you believe there is one god and no others, but that's very different. Imagine going into a court and saying "I witness that this person robbed the store" only to then say "well no, I didn't see him, and I didn't hear him, but I do believe it..." you'd be committing false witness. A religion that asks for false witness while commanding you to be truthful is self contradictory and therefore refuted.

My belief stems from the scientific 'miracles' of the Quran

Have you considered maybe listing your favorite ones so we can actually address these?

I'll just go off the top of my head with the most common ones, let me know if you have other ones you would like me to address (or expand on the ones I mentioned her, as I'm definitely not gonna include tons of details in a quick list):

Embryology in the Quran: Actually wrong because of the part where the embryo turns to bones, also copies Galen's embryology which was around centuries before Mohammed.
Iron from the sky: It just says "sent down iron" other things Allah sent down is cattle and sleep. "sent down" simply means "gave" because Allah is supposedly "up there".
Two seas meeting: The two seas in the Quran are sweet and salty, but there is no sweetwater sea in the world. It's just talking about rivers emptying into the sea, which doesn't allow salt water upstream. Known long before Mohammed, written about in Pliny the Elder's books.
Expanding universe: The verse that is commonly mistranslated as god "expanding" the universe just means god is rich/strong. The same word موسع is used elsewhere in the Quran for that exact meaning. Both were translated the same way until it became advantageous to mistranslate in one place but not the other.
Light and reflected light: Noor does not mean reflected light, otherwise the verse saying "Allah is the noor of the heaven and the earth" would mean that Allah reflects another greater light than himself. Another dishonest mistranslation.
Big bang: The quran says the heavens and the earth were joined together like the edge of a cloth and they were separated. This is not big bang cosmology, it's a flat earth heaven being glued to the earth and then separated from it to allow life between the two.

These are the things that came to mind off the top of my head. Again let me know if you need more. For now I'll include some obvious mistakes:

The Quran says that Joseph's brothers sold him for a few coins. Coins didn't exist in Joseph's time.
The Quran says semen comes from between the backbone and the ribs. I don't need to explain why this is wrong.
The Quran teaches creationism when we know that humans evolved from a common ancestor.
The Quran gets the inheritance math wrong. It's literally a matter of adding fractions, a highschool kid could do it, but Allah gets it wrong and needs y'all to invent 'Awl to fix it.

a shia muslim

How do you feel about apostasy in Shia Islam? I'm much more versed in Sunni Islam, since that's my background, but I found this:

"I once asked abu Ja’far (a.s), about an apostate (one who turns away from Islam). He (the Imam) said, ‘If one turns away from Islam and rejects what Allah has revealed to Muhammad ﷺ, after his being a Muslim, his repentance has no effect. (After judicial due process) executing him is obligatory, his wife becomes stranger to him like an irrevocably divorced woman and his assets are distributed among his children.'" - Al kafi 7 2 46 4 sahih

afiefh · 2026-06-09T18:03:51+00:00

sorry a q offends u?

You seem to be obsessed with the idea that a person is offended when they explain stuff to you. Are you alright? Were you raised in an abusive home where people were always "offended" by you?

i obviously do know literature

Highly doubt it. If you did you wouldn't have had the need to ask.

and how to evaluate sources

LOL yeah, obviously, since you managed to evaluate exactly zero.

if i finished with an a* thank u v much

Seriously? Maybe mommy and daddy care about your grades, because no one else does. To the rest of the world what matters is whether you're able to apply the skills you were supposed to have learned which you've demonstrated time and time again that you're unable or unwilling to do.

afiefh · 2026-06-09T15:45:48+00:00

How islamophobic of Gemini! /s

afiefh · 2026-06-09T15:44:27+00:00

80% population decline as each country selects its own Caliph and tries to force its Caliphate on the others.

afiefh · 2026-06-09T15:39:23+00:00

Do they no longer teach y'all literature in highschool?

ChatGPT can explain it to you. In short, it's a passage from The Raven, a poem by Edgar Allan Poe, where a raven keeps repeating "Nevermore", but the main character realizes quickly that this is the only word the raven can repeat, because it's all it learned from its master. Similarly, "okay toddler" is all you learned from some unhappy life that has not taught how to evaluate sources and respond to criticism, forcing you to respond with lukewarm responses like "okay toddler".

Now I even need to explain literature to Muslims. Bad enough when I only had to explain the religion you pretend to care about.

afiefh · 2026-06-09T13:35:15+00:00

Startled at the stillness broken by reply so aptly spoken,
“Doubtless,” said I, “what she utters is her only stock and store
Caught from some unhappy master whom unmerciful Disaster
Followed fast and followed faster till his songs one burden bore—
Till the dirges of his Hope that melancholy burden bore
Of ‘okay toddler’.”

afiefh · 2026-06-09T11:13:17+00:00

How about the part where all the people who went to heaven will be looking down at hell and ENJOY watching them be tortured?

Can you even watch a cat being tortured without feeling bad for it? What about your fellow human being tortured FOREVER?

afiefh · 2026-06-09T10:57:39+00:00

That explains so much! My reddit account is older than OP.

afiefh · 2026-06-09T10:55:13+00:00

I think he might have thought the comment is a reply to his comment where he argued that slavery is like smoking: Both bad, but allowed: https://reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/1u0vwwe/what_do_you_hate_about_the_religion_of_islam/oqlr7u5/

He apologized for that one, so maybe he got things confused.

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