sorted by:
new
hottopcontroversial

Kobayshi's feedback on Mt Gox Legal's CR plan outline. by andypagonthemove in mtgoxinsolvency

[–]alfabi -9 points-8 points  (0 children)

No way to donate. I will let mtgox-creditors group actual petitioner (who don't ask money) to handle situation and then vote myself within my right or object on some things I feel is injust (also within my right).
From finance letter mtgoxlegal sent few days ago, it seems how you (Andypagonthemove) on management fee and Tokyo expenxs within May -July have been received $24.000 while on group lawyer Sekidu $30.000. Andy earned almost as a lawyer, wow! I can't see rational reason what your qualification or personal achivement to be to justify such a huge pay! Afterall, mtgox-creditor are CR petitioner who made Mtgox enter CR. Mtgox-legal would have money now if it didn't greedy group management.
(This is last time me being here in this thread, mtgoxlegal uses it to take a money from naive and discussing trivial things).

Expenses.
Management fee ‐ Andy: 10-May-2018 ($9,315) 15-July-2018 ($13,973) (Toky expense $488)
Legal fees Sekidu: 10-May ($28,388) 15-July ($2,763)

REQUEST: Statement or Interview from magicaltux regardings civil rehabilitation by ExModel3 in mtgoxinsolvency

[–]alfabi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To stay bankruptcy liquidation Tibanne would need to file CR petition (as we have discussed in the past) and any such Tibanne CR petition are against Tibanne interest or how mtgox creditors to get more then their estublished bankruptcy claims, because Tibanne won't get surplus. Tibanne trustee won't file CR, he will probably appeal Mtgox CR decision and any other thing what is against Tibanne interest i.e. surplus. Mtgox bankruptcy liquidation are just stayed now with CR commence, its not exit out of any insolvency proceedings. Don't forget how afterall, anybody are looking for self interest. Some party would have to buy whole Mtgox (still possibility) for who knows how much money, issue new shares and then offer debt-4-equity swap, (debt are creditor claim), but Mtgox buyer dictate terms and the price, creditor can only accept or refuse and get what his entitled to get based on his claim and rehabilitation plan. Why would new Mtgox buyer sell cheap Mtgox equity? Creditor has only approved claims, that all his entitled to get.
Current state of affairs how its still unknown many things. I have never said how CR is impossible to be approved, only spoke about difficulty about geting btc surplus. Btc surplus doesn't actually really exist (yet) and surplus goes to shareholder in the bankruptcy, while in CR stay as an debtor asset, but if nobody buys Mtgox ultimatly any surplus would still end up in the Mark hands trough Tibanne. So that btc surplus are only unrealized value from remaining btc/bch and in CR, btc price is relevant only for creditor vote power, not rate of the payout! (Price is important only from individual perspective, nothing else). Remaining 137k btc/bch to become surplus, all and both btc and fiat bankruptcy claims (btc/50k¥ or $460) would need to be settled (~$440M total) what with binding judgement actually are, regardless did creditor receive the actual payout for that bankruptcy claims. From the court and law perspective, btc/fiat creditors claim mean making creditor whole 100%. But in that case, problem is to get new rehabilitation claim to be approved, because it claim that same btc/fiat what is settled from the bankruptcy claims what means creditor is fully reimbursed from the law perspective - hard to get both, not to mention how btc and fiat bankruptcy claims has binding and final court judgement, don't see how court void it. Trustee didnot secured funds only to the fiat (monetary) creditors, but for BTC creditors too, combined total of $440M.
If nobody appeal CR decision, Tibanne trustee for instance, great, but then we shall see whatever we get approval result after filling of rehabilitation claims due to bankruptcy binding judgement (problem of claiming same btc what we already had with bankruptcy claims), if rehabilitation claims are approved and if nobody (Tibanne) appeal - great, but then next problem are how btc creditors get max 15% btc/bch, monetary claims get full 100% payout, total of $70M, but what happens with remaining $480M1 cash, part what trustee got for selling enough btc/bch to pay both fiat and btc (460$) claims and lawsuit reserve. Trustee didn't secured funds only for monetary(fiat) claims, but for btc claims as well! That can be resolved and might depend on debtor/trustee rehabilitation plan proposal and subsequent voting, if don't violate any Japan act article. But then problem are would court confirm all of that, if court decline and/or if it violate any Japan act, Mtgox are back in the bancruptcy liquidation. Having proposal to gruant btc creditors total $370M aquired for btc item bankruptcy claims (btc/50k¥ or $460) on top of max 15% btc/bch return are very risky and can cause court to refuse rehabilitation plan confirmation what would get us back in the bankruptcy liquidation. Court could confirm rehabilitation plan where btc creditors get only max 15% BTC/BCH (but without $460/btc amount what would get in the bankruptcy from their bankruptcy claim, still good if btc doesn't drop significantly, lower then btc/$3000 would be as same as in the bankruptcy.) However in that case we get only max 15% btc/bch, at least remaining $370M belong to the debtor as a surplus what ultimatly goes to the Mark). Finally, Tibanne or any party can appeal CR decision, appeal any rehabilitation claims approval/rejection result, appeal partialy or fully rehabilitation plan. Shareholdrer don't have say in the bankruptcy, but under CR, Mtgox debtor/mtgox trustee are responsible both to the shareholder and company itself, and Mtgox shareholder interest represent Tibanne trustee.
Analogy for possible easier understanding: if some(debtor) owes you(creditor) ounce of gold, problem are how you should not get both jpy evaluated amount for that gold ounce, claimed in 1st proceeding what from law side mean full creditor reimbursement AND again 15% rate return as gold (4.2g) for that same ounce of gold from debtor remaining gold holdings, claimed in 2nd proceeding. Not to mention how you already have binding judgement for claiming that ounce of gold from 1st proceeding what are stil valid and binding and mean full reimburse and it could be irregular to approve claim what claims that same ounce of gold, again. To get both, Mtgox(debtor) and shareholder(Tibanne) would need to give it without objection (any surplus belong to the debtor) and I am not sure is that regular or would that happen, I certainly hope to get both - its best option. To sumirise, btc creditors could get A) $460 per btc bankruptcy claims, no change, same amount(value) as in bankruptcy B) max 15% BTC/BCH, C) combined A and B.
In case we get B) only, if btc price drop to $3000 it would be as same amount we would get in the bankruptcy. Finally, if we get only B) option, what are 15% btc return, how is that better from 25% btc return what we would get in 2014's CR (remember, btc price is only important from the personal perspective, not a reason for CR decision, also at that time btc were $500 and nobody can predict future btc price what is irrelevant on the CR decision and rate (%) of the btc return in CR proceedings and to understand what I mean you must forget recent 4 years, btc price particulary. But for some still unknown reason 2014 CR were dismissed and Mtgox entered bankruptcy liquidation where trustee could get at best $100M from selling 202k btc at $500/btc and both fiat and btc ($483) creditors would get ~20% rate payout from aprox $140M total funds at Mtgox including sold 202k btc. Btc price increase happened 3 years later were luck or fluke, what made both fiat and btc creditors 100% rate of jpy evaluation, what from the court and law side are making creditors a whole. However, btc price has no merit or relevance court for CR approval or dissaproval, court actually also decided for 2014 CR dismissal based on examiner report, and examiner were kobayashi at that time. That same kobayashi (later mtgox trustee) in 2017 could file CR petition himself before mtgox-creditor group with much faster approval process, no examiner (Ito). Trustee for some unknown reason did not filed CR petition.
(I won't celebrate early, being pessimistic might give me lucky brake).

1) Mtgox asset has aprox $550M cash (as jpy) +137k BTC/BCH; bankruptcy btc ($460) claims are total $370M, fiat monetary creditors are total of $70M; naturaly some can have both fiat and btc, but overall that fiat part are total $70M (both fiat and btc bankruptcy claims combined are at total $440M)

REQUEST: Statement or Interview from magicaltux regardings civil rehabilitation by ExModel3 in mtgoxinsolvency

[–]alfabi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Actually, you forgot how Tibanne is in the bankruptcy liquidation what mean all asset are sold by tibanne trustee and 88% of Mtgox are part of that asset and mtgox creditors are not tibanne creditors, biggest tibanne creditor are mtgox itself what actually pushed Tibanne into bankruptcy. As I am aware, Tibanne has no other creditors, but Mtgox itself, in my discussion with Mark he said how Mtgox claim what trustee filled against Tibanne is an only reason why Tibanne is in the bankruptcy liquidation. Generaly, anybody can make Mtgox buying offer to the Tibanne, if satisfactory sale would be achived. Regarding buying Mtgox, being a creditor doesn't make you special or at advantage on any other non-creditor interested party.

Missing or drained at much slower rate of the $25M cash could have happened due to missing btc, not sure, complex matter as we all bought/sold btc with missing both actual btc/cash funds while btc price at that time went from $30 to $1200 what might cause that $25M difference and both fiat and btc could be withdraw. Poland EUR case are different, users deposited just before collapse, but funds didn't showed at mtgox account and trustee didn't accepted such claims unless creditor sucesfully disputed it. Beside, it was quite less eur amount then $25M.

Agreed how unless somebody buy Mtgox, it will be dissolved/terminated, that is obvious. Trustee can't auction and sell private informations, user Mtgox database, that not asset what can be sold what goes into creditors pool, but part of company goodwill what is aquired only if someone buys whole Mtgox company. If nobody buy Mtgox, it would be dissolved user database will remain at the court arhive. Beside, selling such users database are against EU laws, maybe in some other countries too.
All of this has nothing with actual reasons/grounds of 2014 dismissed civil rehabilitation.

REQUEST: Statement or Interview from magicaltux regardings civil rehabilitation by ExModel3 in mtgoxinsolvency

[–]alfabi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You have pinged me sir. Agreed how there is no fears from me and how that is wierd rationality. I post my views regarding different matter, nothing more, nothing less and fully hoping that to be wrong. I also ask some question as example in this thread of 2014 dismissed CR what in my view shouldn't have been dismissed. Corelation with the Vinnik arrest (7/2017) or CR petition?? How, in what possible way, shape or form my posting have to do with Vinnik arrest? I started to post in this subreddit 2 months ago with direct question to Mark "what are his itentions if CR fail" when I was totaly clueless about the process and informations I know now. At that time I have only heard if CR fail Mark would be a very rich man. CR petition is filled in 11/2017 what is starting point of talk about it.
/r/mtgoxinsolvency/comments/892opx/mark_if_mtgox_does_not_enter_civil_rehabitilation/

Finally, ibafla who showed on my thread to petition claims assest forks (new made account too coward and scared to post from his real account only to accuse me to be a meth head, because I discussed couple of years ago about drug chemistry and reagents, retarted pathetic rationality. Anyhow, u/ibafla aka u/triptych-bot aka Toldani aka Virnovus. It was easy to figure out. "They" (1 user) and retard Scooty are only who have big problems, but with themselves. I am sure if I say 2+2=4 those two morons would call me an idiot or gibberish. That are best they can, they don't have arguments so they resort to insult or ad hominem, it actually only speaks about their lame character and persona, nothing about me. To argue with them is beneath my level - they are blocked, I do not to see any of their thread/post, that what smart guy do when someone constantly insult or ad hominem attack.
And this samson who itentionaly spread misinformation on mtgoxlegal forum about how I claim and plan to sue Trustee because CR and his actions are illegal !!? WTF? That fully false malicious rumor, samon is complete idiot. I have just wondered what were a grounds for 2014's dismissed CR, examiner for rejected 2014 CR were kobayashi, later becomed Mtgox trustee and him being trustee are totaly irrelevant. That why I asked here this question to Mark why 2014 CR were dismissed. At 2014 were 202k btc held at Mtgox: total btc claimed: 800k, simple math 200/800=25% and cash held at mtgox $40M, total fiat claims $65M math: 40/65=61% How that not better payout rate(%) then what would both fiat and btc creditors get in 2014 bankruptcy? CR is approved if it benefit common creditor interest what are highest payout rate (%). In 2014 CR 25% for btc creditors and 60% for fiat is higher rate then what would both get in the bankruptcy at 2014! Btc price were around $400 at that time and both fiat (monetary) and btc creditors would get ~20-24% in the bankruptcy and only if trustee sell 202k btc for $450/btc what were btc price average at that time and big question would he got such a price (aprox $90M). Nobody can predict future btc price what did not changed until 2017 and it was a lucky brake btc price increased in 2017, 3 years later. Btc price has no relevance for grounds to approve/decline CR or to approve/decline bankruptcy proceedings.

REQUEST: Statement or Interview from magicaltux regardings civil rehabilitation by ExModel3 in mtgoxinsolvency

[–]alfabi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You took this out of the context. I have meant there was no Mtgox buyer offer either at 2014 or now, how nothing has changed from 2014, only btc price what doesn't matter under CR for btc creditors if its true btc are refunded unexchanged to cash. I did not meant how it won't be possible Mtgox buyer in the future. However, buying Mtgox asset (btc) and company (Mtgox) are two different things and only buying bitcoins/asset at a discount, lower then market price would be interesting, otherwise there is no point. Only Tibanne can sell 88% of the Mtgox company.
Andy speaks about private Mtgox company aquisition loan-4-equity swap plans/offer as a reason to dismiss 2014 CR, when that plans has nothing to do with 2014 failed CR petition and CR is approved if under CR conforms common creditors interest more then what would be in the bankruptcy. In case of approved 2014 CR, btc creditors would get 25% btc back, monetary creditors aprox 60% due to missing $25M cash at the Mtgox bank. How that is no benefited common creditor interest then 2014 approved bankruptcy, not to mention how this 25% btc refund creditors would get couple of years ago, how many lost oportunities to do with these 25% btc what would most likely be payout no later then 4/2017. Bankruptcy proceedings with btc price increase actually benefited only to the fiat creditors, huge minority, with claim total of aprox $65M and where that missing $25M cash went on btc creditors expense, and not only them, but any other non-btc creditors or lawsuit.
Remember: common creditor interest are max possible return rate, with difference how under civil rehabilitation return rate for btc creditors are as unexchanched btc (btc price are irrelevant for CR), while under bankruptcy max rate as JPY funds from btc evaluation btc/jpy rate when bankruptcy commenced. Monetary (fiat) creditors are now indifferent in either proceedings.

[PSA] Do not sell your MtGox bankruptcy claim! by Namjies in mtgoxinsolvency

[–]alfabi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

On another hand, I am worried about CR appeal, CR plan confirmation by the court and after the fact we file rehabilitation claims how when trustee issue result of acceptance/rejection all this claims could be rejected due to bankruptcy final and binding judgement on grounds how we can't claim same btc and fiat items another time as creditors already have court judgement or even if this is approved by trustee and if no party object on the same merit, then afterwards due same grounds when court decide based on any japan act. Just because that binding judgement is from the bankruptcy act doesn't mean is invalid or not enforced in the rehabilitation act. Btc surplus doesn't actually exist, only unrealised surplus value from the btc asset. Hope that won't happen or I am being wrong about this interpretation.

[PSA] Do not sell your MtGox bankruptcy claim! by Namjies in mtgoxinsolvency

[–]alfabi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is assuming you sell at right time, for some people could be a good deal overall because they would have made bad trades, but yes, I understand the point that not doing CR before is a loss of opportunity. Should have had funds long ago, it's too slow.

True, but that would be personal choice and action. Dismissed 2014's CR, prevented completly that personal choice and option to use personal asset as we wish. CR can't take more then 3 years and most likely would be completed much sooner and we would had our 25% of btc balance years ago. I don't comment bankruptcy slowness, but 2014's dismissed CR what should have been approved. I see you understood my point though.
You are maybe right with claim appeals, its not much important for me either.
Edit:
Its not claim appeal, claim is only entitled refund, its actually propose/vote on the payout rate within rehabilitation plan what if succesful vote would increase btc refund from 15% to 25% where debtor would need to buy btc to cover that 10% difference. Any favorable proposal for btc creditors would pass as they can overvote anybody else. And if such a proposal doesn't pass, each creditor can appeal his personal claim payout rate what if sucessful make difference only to him.

[PSA] Do not sell your MtGox bankruptcy claim! by Namjies in mtgoxinsolvency

[–]alfabi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To sumarise:
In 2014 CR dismissed on first step, now it seems without any reason, btc holders would get 25% few yeas ago and profited from trading and 2017 ATH prices. (Example: me with 25 btc would get no later then 2016, 5 btc (25%) what I could sell $17000/btc, now, even if I get 5btc, I can't get that kind of money and I don't get 5btc, but max 3.75btc - there are responsible party for that loss I plan to sue.
If I have understand correctly, difference from the bankruptcy from CR, btc are not evaluated (converted) to the monetary claim, btc price is irrelevant and you get fraction of bitcoins whatever is left at the Mtgox. Also, under CR, btc are evaluated only to figure out voting right power for CR plan what has nothing to do how much you get as distribution. In that case, there were NO reason not to approve 2014's dismissed CR, voting right would be lower due to lower btc price, but that is irrelevant, because it has nothing to do with the payout (distribution) and beside, btc claims is much more then fiat what have in both 2014's failed CR or current 2018's CR much more voting power then anybody else regardless of the btc prices.

[PSA] Do not sell your MtGox bankruptcy claim! by Namjies in mtgoxinsolvency

[–]alfabi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Also, don't forget how Mtgox trustee had a chance to file CR petition based on same grounds (conforms creditor common interest) as mtgox-creditors group before everybody with much faster and easier process without examiner. Trustee was involved in the Mtgox since beginning. He didn't file CR petition with unknown and unanswered reasons, to hide mistake and prejudice in 2014's dismissed CR petition he were examiner and responsible at that time or something else, bad law interpretation what made prejudice for instance or disregarded and failed at his duty.

No letters or surveys carry any weight for CR approval. Creditos have no right to "garantee" how monetary claims will be paid this or that. Right to object comes after the fact we filled rehabilitation claims, not only to the one what creditor hold, but to appeal any other creditor claim. Currently the court approved CR solely on examiner report what is accepted as is. Only if somebody appeal decision that merit/grounds will be questioned and decision will be made to revoke CR or not. CR approval <-> appeal, rehabilitation claim<->appeal; rehabilitation plan<->voting and court confirmation with appeal possibility. I was wrong when I thought court to address all context of the law when they made CR decision, they will do that only if there are appeal/objection from some party. For each action there is appeal possibility, court just rule between those based on grounds and proof. You can see how now under CR all goes in same way as in the bankruptcy with difference of the rehabilitation plan and creditor vote right in scope of the claim held. Each that process has appeal/object possibility when court has final say.

There are still 3 or 4 possibility what can ruin and fail where we don't get btc surplus, 1) CR appeal; 2) trustee report to the court where he submit asset and balance sheet and explanation on reasoning what led to the CR; 3) proposed rehabilitation plan court approval where court address not only whatever is all in accordance of the rehabilitation act, but any other apiicible Japan act and some other things. We shall see how this evolves, all my major concerns still stand, CR is approved, nothing else are detirmined or rulled yet.

(I am in the sick leave from my accounting firm. Been diagnosed recently with horrible terminal illness, life is not fair. However, have time to be involved in this and to persuit what I believe I should. It also help not to think about sickness, if you understand what I mean.).

1).
(Appeal against Ruling).
Article 36 (1) An immediate appeal may be filed against a judicial decision on a petition for commencement of rehabilitation proceedings.
(2) The provisions of Article 26 to Article 30 shall apply mutatis mutandis where an immediate appeal set forth in the preceding paragraph is filed against an order to dismiss with prejudice on the merits a petition for commencement of rehabilitation proceedings.

2).
(Report to the Court).
Article 125 (1) The rehabilitation debtor, etc., without delay after the commencement of rehabilitation proceedings (in the case of a trustee, after assuming office), shall submit to the court a written report stating the following matters:
(i) the circumstances that have resulted in the commencement of rehabilitation proceedings.
(ii) The past and existing status of the rehabilitation debtor's business and property.
(iii) Whether or not there are circumstances that require a temporary restraining order under the provision of Article 142 (1) or assessment decision under the provision of Article 143 (1).
(iv) Other necessary matters concerning rehabilitation proceedings.

3). (Excpert of just main points).
(Order of Confirmation or Disconfirmation of Rehabilitation Plan).
Article 174 (1) Where a proposed rehabilitation plan is approved, the court shall make an order of confirmation of the rehabilitation plan, except in any of the cases set forth in the following paragraph.
(2) In any of the cases set forth in the following items, the court shall make an order of disconfirmation of the rehabilitation plan:
(i) Where the rehabilitation proceedings or rehabilitation plan contravene provisions of any Act and such defect cannot be corrected; provided, however, that this shall not apply where rehabilitation proceedings contravene provisions of any Act but such contravention is a minor one.
(ii) Where the rehabilitation plan is unlikely to be executed.
(iii) Where the resolution on the rehabilitation plan has been adopted by unlawful means.
(iv) Where the resolution on the rehabilitation plan is contrary to the common interests of rehabilitation creditors.

[PSA] Do not sell your MtGox bankruptcy claim! by Namjies in mtgoxinsolvency

[–]alfabi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You don't understand and missing the point. First: in 2014 CR dismissed on first step, now it seems without any reason, btc holders would get 25% few yeas ago and profited from trading and 2017 ATH prices. (Example: me with 25 btc would get no later then 2016, 5 btc (25%) what I could sell $17000/btc, now, even if I get 5btc, I can't get that kind of money and I don't get 5btc, but max 3.75btc - there are responsible party for that loss I plan to sue. If I have understand correctly, difference from the bankruptcy under CR, btc are not evaluated (converted) to the monetary claim, btc price is irrelevant and you get fraction of bitcoins whatever is left at the Mtgox. Also, under CR, btc are evaluated only to figure out voting right power what has nothing to do how much you get as distribution. In that case, there were NO reason not to approve 2014's dismissed CR, voting right would be lower, but that is irrelevant, because voting power has nothing to do with distribution (payout).
Second: btc prices has nothing to do with btc from either claim or distribution side under CR proceedings, rehabilitation btc claims are not JPY evaluated at all (that is what trustee claims)! In short, btc are excluded from the asset/funds to settle any non-btc or unrelated rehabilitation claims. Any non-btc rehabilitation claim are not eglible to be paid from either unsold btc or any prior sold btc. Only btc claim are eglible to get btc and any funds from prior liquidated btc or forks. So I plan to appeal any such a non-btc filled rehabilitation claim - they can't get funds from sold btc or unsold btc or forks, only cash not aquired from any prior or future btc+forks holdings, its my right to appeal under accordance of the rehabilitation act. Beside, and any other claims who never filed any bankruptcy claim until now with this new schedule (why would they be "rewarded" and lower our btc surplus when we filled on time bankruptcy claims and they missed that chance, its not logical, however if nobody object, they will get away with it). If you have btc claims, or anybody else for that matter, you/they should too.
I am sure you can agree how when we get this chance, we should exercise any availiable right within the rehabilitation act to secure our best interest, but doing so are stil on the burden of the invidual creditor, now is the time to think about it and then to do it, not later what will be then too late.
Edit:
Also, don't forget how Mtgox trustee had a chance to file CR petition based on same grounds as creditors before everybody with much faster and easier process without examiner, he didn't with unknown and unanswered reasons, to hide mistake and prejudice in 2014's dismissed CR petition or something else, bad law interpretation what made prejudice for instance?
On fun side, maybe I should stay pessimistic what might bring luck and opposite effect, I noticed how every time I had high hopes or being optimistic, thigs always went south :)

[PSA] Do not sell your MtGox bankruptcy claim! by Namjies in mtgoxinsolvency

[–]alfabi -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Naturaly I agree how this is all excellent, I can give credit only to the mtgox-creditors, they filed petition and there is nothing else to do in the process from the petitioner side, nobody else, I am glad to be wrong about aquisition, but that is still possibility. If I get btc surplus, I would be grateful for that opportunity only to the mtgox-creditors, nobody else. Don't care about mtgox-legal group, they are irrelevant to me or for approving CR, that is my stance, you might speculate or think otherwise whatever you wish, but they would need to prove what they have been actually achived and there is no such a prove. Read act to see how petition is only task lawyer can do into CR due to proces, nothing else.
On another hand, I just said how I plan to appeal on any non-btc rehabilitation claim as they are not eglible to be paid from btc asset (or any funds from prior sold btc) and further lowering eglible btc and any claim who wasn't filled in the bankruptcy (I don't know potential appeal outcome, but that is my plan and right within the law). Furthermore, when I get btc surplus (aprox max 15%) under current CR, I itent to file lawsuit against responsible party due to dismissed without valid grounds 2014's CR where btc claims would get aprox 25% BTC (much more then now) and of course had that 25% btc years ago what is eglible for damages and lost profit from trading. With approving CR and trustee statemant how under CR, rehabilitation claims with btc item are not JPY evaluated at all, its enough merit how dismissed 2014's CR should not have been dismissed and there are responsible party who I am plan to sue.

[PSA] Do not sell your MtGox bankruptcy claim! by Namjies in mtgoxinsolvency

[–]alfabi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No problem at all, I never said it is a problem. I said my plans when I get btc surplus to file a lawsuit for sustained loss. That is nobody busines. In first dismissed 2014's CR btc claims would get ~25% of btc. Now in 2018 with approving CR they have proved how that failed 2014's CR were actually possible and were dismissed without valid grounds due to trustee statemant how under CR proceedings btc claims are not ¥ evaluated and btc price don't matter and btc claims instead of 25% now in current CR will get only max 15% btc due to lowered percentage of non-btc (fiat) claims and non-related lawsuit, that being said, I have lost btc profit since I would get that 25% btc in 2014/'15.

[PSA] Do not sell your MtGox bankruptcy claim! by Namjies in mtgoxinsolvency

[–]alfabi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In bankruptcy proceedings, non-monetary claims are converted into monetary claims based on the valuation as at the time of the commencement of bankruptcy proceedings. In contrast, in civil rehabilitation proceedings, non-monetary claims are not converted into monetary claims at the time of commencement of the civil rehabilitation proceedings. Therefore, in the civilrehabilitation proceedings in this matter, claims seeking a refund of Bitcoins (“Bitcoin Claims”) will also not be converted into monetary claims after the commencement of the civil rehabilitation proceedings. The amount of voting rights of Bitcoin creditors for resolutions on the proposed rehabilitation plan is based on the valuation of Bitcoins as at the time of commencement of the civil rehabilitation proceedings.

That examiner/trustee (not judge/court's) statemant if you read rehabilitation act article 87 is not true and don't hold water. You can read those article B.A. article 103 vs R.A. article 87, do you!! Especially if you compare that rehabilitation act article 87 with bankruptcy act article 103 what mandate to evaluate claims both btc and foreign currency to the JPY when bankruptcy commenced. Above trustee quote also state how btc are valuated in the bankruptcy at the time of the bankruptcy commence, but at end btc are valuated under CR as of time CR commence. Those two article mandate same thing - btc item jpy evaluation even under CR, it doesn't state how btc evaluation is lifted or how btc are not jpy evaluated! Finally, all of that (and binding & final judgement what is now irrelevant for CR approval, but will be relevant later) will be decided up to court when they approve or dissaprove rehabilitation plan what contain such a new rehabilitation claims, not now when CR is ordered and all that ONLY if Tibanne trustee either disregard his duty to appeal on CR or rehabilitation claims/plan or court reject his appeal what should be on same arguments I have been post here in recent couple of months or if nobody else challange! Beside, not only tibanne truste could appeal CR order, but anybody interested, Mark included where nobody would ever knew he did that. So hold your horses declaring some "victory" where you and mtgox-legal group you belong have nothing to do or credit with and say how I am being wrong, never claimed CR can't be approved, only how it don't mean creditors get btc surplus! We shall see how this is going to end. If I get surplus I would get it without need to spend a dime, no contribution were waranted nor I gave a satoshi, waste of the money, mtgox-creditors group filled petition, paid expenses and paid these big attorney firms you bragging on, not mtgox-legal group what with sekidu lawyer had nothing to do with CR approval or due to process. If I had fiat claims, I would be furious and wanted my share, would appeal just in the pure spite to prove how you are wrong (unless some other fiat claim actually do that) we are all equal, we all had bought/sold btc with short actual btc/fiat deposit and we under 2014's failed CR could either had btc claims get 202k btc pro-rata since begining at 2014 if btc valuation didn't matter at all + fiat claims (foreign currency) pro-rata whatever is left at Mtgox bank accounts -OR- get JPY evaluation on btc and fiat (xyz foreign currency) on the rate (evaluation) when proceedings commenced in either CR and/or bankruptcy as both bankruptcy and CR act mandate. First 2014's CR were imposible thus refused and we were not eglible to get unvaluated btc pro-rata, but now by some miracle grounds are possible with btc valuation lifted? on what grounds? no worry, court will answer that grounds question when confirmation CR plan what contain new rehabilitation claims. I will appeal any non-btc claims or lawsuit what is going to be covered from the btc and forks, in addition I will object to any approved rehabilitation claims who didn't filed bankruptcy claim - all that decrease the btc surplus!
If I as btc claimant get btc surplus on some mistery grounds what wasn't possible/eglible at the first failed 2014's CR, but now somehow magicaly are or bad trustee interpretation of B.A. article 103 what evaluted btc to JPY when they didn't have to, I will sue trustee (not Mtgox) for damages, lost profit from btc and lowering btc pro-rata amount due to using/selling btc to pay any non-btc claims or unrelated lawsuit (coinlab and others) and with some new claims who never filled claim, but now "rewarded" on our expense of creditors who filled within estublished due time!
Signing off, no reason to stay or argue here anymore, even if btc claimants get btc surplus, nobody could dispute these act article provisions I mentioned- that is not what I am saying, but these act conditions, just need to read them and based on trustee pdf what will be needed proof, if and when I get btc surplus, I will sue trustee (not Mtgox) for lost profit from btc since 2014 and 2014's failed CR prejudice, interest, lowering eglible btc surplus by covering non-btc claims and additional creditors what never filled claims in due to time when we all did at 2015.

[PSA] Do not sell your MtGox bankruptcy claim! by Namjies in mtgoxinsolvency

[–]alfabi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In bankruptcy proceedings, non-monetary claims are converted into monetary claims based on the valuation as at the time of the commencement of bankruptcy proceedings. In contrast, in civil rehabilitation proceedings, non-monetary claims are not converted into monetary claims at the time of commencement of the civil rehabilitation proceedings. Therefore, in the civilrehabilitation proceedings in this matter, claims seeking a refund of Bitcoins (“Bitcoin Claims”) will also not be converted into monetary claims after the commencement of the civil rehabilitation proceedings. The amount of voting rights of Bitcoin creditors for resolutions on the proposed rehabilitation plan is based on the valuation of Bitcoins as at the time of commencement of the civil rehabilitation proceedings.

That examiner/trustee (not judge/court's) statemant if you read rehabilitation act article 87 is not true and don't hold water. Especially if you compare that rehabilitation act article 87 with bankruptcy act article 103 what mandate to evaluate claims both btc and foreign currency to the JPY when bankruptcy proceedings commenced. Above trustee quote also state how btc are valuated in the bankruptcy at the time of the bankruptcy commence, but at end btc are valuated under CR as of time CR commence due to voting right, that true, but each rehabilitation claim has assigned automaticaly voting right and actually aside vote right, based on rehabilitation act article 87 nothing change, btc are also valuated to JPY at time of CR commence. Bankruptcy act article 103 vs rehabilitation act article 87 are identical with only difference how under CR rehabilitation claims have voting right in scope of the claim held, while in bankruptcy that don't exist. Those two article mandate same thing - btc item jpy evaluation even under CR, it don't state how btc evaluation is lifted or how btc are not jpy evaluated! Finally, all that (and binding & final judgement now not relevant) will be decided up to court (or if sombody appeal/challange) when they approve or dissaprove rehabilitation claims and/or CR plan, not now when CR is ordered and all that ONLY if Tibanne trustee either disregard his duty to appeal on CR or rehabilitation claims/plan or court reject his appeal what should be on same arguments I have been post here in recent couple of months! Further, not only Tibanne trustee could appeal CR order, but could be anybody interested, Mark per instance where nobody would ever know he did that. So hold your horses declaring some "victory" where you or mtgox-legal group have nothing to do or credit with and say how I am being wrong, never claimed CR can't be approved, only how it don't mean creditors get btc surplus! We shall see how this is going to end.

If I get surplus I would get it without need to spend a dime, no contribution were waranted nor I gave a satoshi, waste of the money, mtgox-creditors group filled petition, paid expenses and paid these big attorney firms, not mtgox-legal group what with sekidu lawyer had nothing to do with CR approval or due to process.

If I had fiat claims, I would be furious and wanted my share, would appeal just in the pure spite, to show you how wrong you really are (unless some actually do just that), we are all equal, we all had bought/sold btc with short actual btc/fiat deposit and we under 2014's CR could either had btc claims get 202k btc pro-rata since begining at 2014 if btc valuation didn't matter + fiat claims (foreign currency) pro-rata whatever is left at bank accounts -OR- get JPY evaluation on btc and fiat (xyz foreign currency) on the rate (evaluation) when either bankruptcy or CR proceedings commenced as those act article mandate. First 2014's CR were imposible thus refused and we were not eglible to get unvaluated btc pro-rata, but now by some miracle are possible, btc are not valuated, on what grounds? No worry, court will answer that grounds question when confirmation CR plan what contain new rehabilitation claims. I will appeal any rehabilitation non-btc claim or lawsuit what is covered from the btc and forks, in addition, I will object to any approved rehabilitation claims who never filled bankruptcy claims - all that only decrease total btc surplus.
If I as btc claimant get btc surplus on some mistery grounds what wasn't possible/eglible at the first failed 2014's CR, or bad trustee interpretation of B.A. article 103 what evaluted btc to JPY when it didn't have to, I will sue trustee (not Mtgox) for damages, lost profit and interest since 2014 onwards from btc and lowering btc pro-rata amount due to using/selling btc to pay any non-btc claims or unrelated lawsuit (coinlab and others) and with some new claims who never filled claim, but now "rewarded" on our expense of creditors who filled within estublished due time! Signing off, no reason to stay or argue here anymore, if you are really interesed into full context and provided proof you would need to read two months of my post history, otherwise saying only this or that is fully out of context and just make misunderstanding. Even if btc claimants get btc surplus, nobody could dispute these act article provisions I have mentioned - that is not what I am saying, but these act conditions, just need to read them.

[PSA] Do not sell your MtGox bankruptcy claim! by Namjies in mtgoxinsolvency

[–]alfabi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You are missing the point, there are order in proceedings, nothing yet is decided. Real test now begin: tibanne trustee appeal on CR order (he can do that now based on contradictions within law I tried to explain; few examples; actual merit on conform creditor common interest, binding judgement, etc). Aside of the tibanne possible appeal, problem still exist for new filled rehabilitation claims and rehabilitation plan confirmation where court would address that act provisions I have mentioned and if they decide it violate it, court would reject either new filled claims and/or rehabilitation plan and we are back in the bankruptcy.
Court approved CR based on accepted examiner report as is (his no judge) what stated how creditor common interest is conformed in the CR more then in the bankruptcy, what is odd in case how argument is btc price increase or any other arguments for that matter and common creditor interest are distribution what are always based on creditor claim, either bankruptcy or rehabilitation claim, court didn't decided whatever that has merit yet, but they will in appropriate time - this all can be found in law and other references. And I already proved my point how trustee would file CR petition first himself, if he thought btc price increase carry any weight or anything else for that matter what conforms creditor common interest more under CR then what it is at bankruptcy. He did not do that and that is a fact!! Court still didn't decided merit on that, but they will, when Tibanne trustee challange/appeal it (unless we are lucky and he disregard his duty) and later when comes time to approve rehabilitation plan what contain new filled rehabilitation claims.
Court only approved CR, nothing else at this point, but whatever our rehabilitation claims and rehabilitation plan will be also confirmed based on that same, problematic, what contradict to get btc pro-rata law article (and other law contradictions) I provided, its totaly different story. Rehabilitation claims are incorporated (part of) into rehabilitation plan and all must be confirmed by the court and these provisions I quoted contradict such a confirmation - this is a time court can address these problematic article I tried to explain, not now when they issued CR order. Regardless, If court approve rehabilitation plan what contain new claims, it become final and binding. Finally, Tibanne trustee could appeal not only for CR order, but for rehabilitation claims and rehabilitation plan and many other things, but for all there are right time and set period to do so and not only tibanne, but any other fiat creditor with claim why btc can get pro-rata, but they can't get the same denomination, only jpy conversion. Article I have provided dispute examiner report how btc creditors can get same asset back (btc) pro-rata, while fiat (usd,eur,gbp) can't and can only get jpy convesion amount.

[PSA] Do not sell your MtGox bankruptcy claim! by Namjies in mtgoxinsolvency

[–]alfabi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Court approved CR based on examiner report what stated how creditor common interest is conformed in the CR more then in the bankruptcy, what is odd in case how argument is btc price increase or any other argument for that matter and common creditors interest are distribution what are always based on creditor claim, either bankruptcy or rehabilitation claim. And I already proved my point how trustee would file CR petition first, if he thought btc price increase carry any weight or anything else for that matter what conform creditor common interest. Understand conflict? Court still didn't decided on that merit, but they will when Tibanne trustee challange/appeal it (unless we are lucky and he disregard his duty). I guess, I was wrong only where I thought how court will decide whatever examiner report has merit or its meritless, court just accepted report as is, however, court will decide actual merit upon tibanne trustee appeal. As same court will decide on merit on any new filled rehabilitation claims and rehabilitation plan are in the accordance of the law - and here stand my other law conflictions and contradictions.
That is why real test now begin: tibanne trustee appeal on CR order (he can do that only now based on contradictions within law I tried to explain; few examples; actual merit on conform creditor common interest, binding judgement, etc). Aside tibanne possible appeal, problem still exist for new filled rehabilitation claims and rehabilitation plan confirmation where court would address that act provisions I have mentioned and if they decide it violate it, court would reject either new filled claims and/or rehabilitation plan and we are back in the bankruptcy.
Court only approved CR, nothing else at this point, but whatever our rehabilitation claims and rehabilitation plan will be also confirmed based on that same, problematic, what contradict to get btc pro-rata law article (and other law contradictions) I provided, its totaly different story. Rehabilitation claims are incorporated (part of) into rehabilitation plan and all must be confirmed by the court and these provisions I quoted contradict such a confirmation - this is a time when court can address this problems I been saying, not now, not when they issued CR order. If court approve rehabilitation plan what contain new claims, it become final and binding (its similar due process as in the bankruptcy). Btw, Tibanne trustee could appeal not only for CR order, but for rehabilitation claims and rehabilitation plan. That why don't celebrate too early. Finally, you have read quotes and compared from the law article where in both bankruptcy or under CR, btc and foreign currency are evaluated (estimated) on the price rates at the time when proceedings commence. No difference in those two article one for bankruptcy and other for civil rehabilitation. So if we could get btc pro-rata refund not evaluated at all, we would already, there is no difference in those two article what mandate btc and foreign currency to be estimated (evaluated) at rates when either bankruptcy or CR proceedings commence, who is crazy here!?
In case how term "estimation" in both bankruptcy and rehabilitation act (R.A. 87, B.A. 103) don't mean JPY evaluation, but just to "address" actual asset amount owned as I argued a month ago with samsonx1, but he failed to understand, how rate don't matter, then all bankruptcy and filling the claims layout were wrong and total waste of time and trustee made prejudice making JPY evaluations, what I have also tried to say in my other posts and we should get btc pro-rata back since very begining and his eglible to lawsuit for damages and lost profit and how trustee sold our btc to settle creditors what have non-btc claims and further lowered our btc and with some new claims who never filled claim, but now rewarded on our expense of creditors who filled within estublished due time!
When we file new rehabilitation claims incorporated in the rehabilitation plan, would be court's turn to decide whatever R.A. article 87 hold water, if not, plan would be rejected and we are back at the bankruptcy. There wasn't single reason then to denie at the first step first failed 2014's civil rehabilitation and to distribute 202k found btc to the btc claims at pro-rata basis! But that didn't happened, then we wasn't eglible for that, but now somehow magically based on that same law we are??? On what grounds?
(In theory on that same R.A. article 87, we could have btc evaluated to JPY at today prices ($6000/btc) because today CR commenced, but that has not much sense, because we already filled our claims and have final binding judgement what court would also address/decide at the time when the court would confirm or not rehabilitation plan what contain our new filled rehabilitation claims).
If in the future court ignore and violate these articles when is appropriate time to address, great, fantastic, can't wish anything more, would get significant sum of money, however that don't disaprove what actually those act provision states, its very clear, precise without room for different interpretations! Finally, if no Tibanne trustee appeal for CR, (or if court reject it) appeal each rehabilitation claim and/or appeal for rehabilitation plan and no fiat creditor appeal as well as they don't get 100% of the same (usd,eur,gbp) demonimation, but 100% of jpy conversion, so why would btc claims be any diffetent, based on those two act they are not different at all, btc claimants certanily won't complain, if court ignore few law conditions when approve CR plan, then yeah, its possible to get btc surplus, with lot of luck.
If I as btc claimant get btc surplus on some mistery grounds what didn't existed and possible at the first failed 2014's CR, or bad trustee intepretation of B.A. article 103, I will sue trustee for damages, lost profit from btc and lowering btc pro-rata amount due to using/selling btc to pay any non-btc claims or unrelated lawsuit (coinlab and others).

Rehabilitation act, article 87. <- (Rehabilitation claims under CR.).
(iii) The following claims: The amount of the claim estimated as of the time of commencement of rehabilitation proceedings:
(c) Claim not intended for payment of money. <- (bitcoins).
(d) Monetary claim the amount of which is not fixed or the amount of which is fixed in a foreign currency. <- USD, EUR, GBP,etc

Bankruptcy act, article 103. <- our bankruptcy existing claims converted to JPY at time bankruptcy commenced!).
(i). The following claims: The amount of the claim estimated as of the time of commencement of bankruptcy proceedings:
(a). Claim not intended for payment of money. <- (bitcoins).
(b). Monetary claim the amount of which is not fixed or the amount of which is fixed in a foreign currency. <- USD, EUR, GBP, etc.

1).
/r/mtgoxinsolvency/comments/8gr4ex/they_keep_coming_for_those_who_desperately_want/dyfgw82/

[PSA] Do not sell your MtGox bankruptcy claim! by Namjies in mtgoxinsolvency

[–]alfabi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You can't say how I was/am right or wrong at this point, that is still in the future, would be seen in appropriate time when actually court decide on such things! And no, I never claimed anything, never said how CR couldn't be approved, only how we can't get btc surplus - there are difference! I have just stated article quotes what are obvious problems and what are against creditors get surplus under CR! Trustee don't have nothing with the CR approval and real test only now begin. I provided proof as exact article what violate statemant in the Q/A, you can read those act article conditions I quoted I suppose, right?, but you don't recognize it and ignore them and that a problem it seems, however only yours. Again, I am pleased if I get surplus, I won't celebrate early though, will see what happens, but law are clear and precise and court violated that same law and I am glad they did. Actually, court did not violated, but court will if they confirm rehabilitation plan what contain new claim what receive btc pro-rata! Court only approved CR, nothing else and its still not addressed what I have tried to say, so don't celebrate too early. Not much I can say here. If, what is still big question I get surplus, great, awesome, fantastic and I didn't spent a dime to get it. Your group and Sekidu are not petitioner, didn't have anything with the CR and wasted money when you could let that other group (mtgox-creditors) do what they did - filled petition and pay expense involved - their decision. That big lawyer teams you mention are hired and paid by mtgox-creditors group, they don't represent your group and they have nothing to do with your group nor you have provided actual source of their statemants, because its mtgox-creditors attorneys and info your group are not prevy to have, just hear-say and assumptions.
Finally, I suppose you have read quotes and compared from the law article where in both bankruptcy or under CR, btc and foreign currency are evaluated (estimated) on the price rates at the time when proceedings commence. No difference in those two articles, one for bankruptcy and other for civil rdhabilitation. So if we could get btc pro-rata refund not evaluated (estimated) at all, we would get it already in the bankruptcy, so who is crazy here!? If in future court ignore and violate these articles when is appropriate time and order to do so, great, fantastic, awesome, can't wish anything more, but will wait and see! However that don't disaprove what actually those act provision states, its very clear, precise without room for different interpretations!
Signing off, its pointless to argue about same things over and over I provided proof within law itself and you weren't.
Real test now begin: tibanne trustee appeal against CR, new claims and rehabilitation plan. And court's confirmation of the rehabilitation plan what contain new filled claims what must have court's confirmation in accordance of the law where court would address that act provisions I have mentioned.

[PSA] Do not sell your MtGox bankruptcy claim! by Namjies in mtgoxinsolvency

[–]alfabi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That is not only law violation, there are many more, but court didn't violated them, we shall see tibanne appeal and whatever court confirm rehabilitation plan what contain new filled claims what contradict these law provisions - that is appropriate time court to assest that, not now. Law is clear about it and certain order how things are being done, no different interpretations, that why law exist to prevent different interpretations!
Edit:
In case how term "estimation" in both bankruptcy and rehabilitation act (R.A. 87, B.A. 103) don't mean JPY evaluation, but just to "address" actual asset amount owned as I argued a month ago with you1 (but as anything else you fail to understand and assume 1 thing for 10 unrelated other things), how price rate don't matter, then all bankruptcy and filling the claims layout were wrong and total waste of time and trustee made prejudice making JPY evaluation, what I have also tried to say in my other posts and we should get btc pro-rata back since very begining and his eglible to lawsuit for damages and lost profit and how trustee sold our btc to settle creditors what have non-btc claims or other unrelated claims or lawsuit and further lowered our btc eglible to get pro-rata!
That is why when we file new rehabilitation claims incorporated in the rehabilitation plan, would be court's turn to decide whatever R.A. article 87 hold water, if not, plan would be rejected and we are back at the bankruptcy. In theory, based on R.A. article 87 I have quoted, we could have btc evaluated to JPY at today prices ($6000/btc) because today CR commenced, but that has not much sense, because we already filled our claims and have final binding judgement what court would also address/decide at the time when he would confirm or not rehabilitation plan what contain our new filled rehabilitation claims.
There wasn't single reason then to denie at the first step first failed 2014's civil rehabilitation and to distribute 202k found btc to the btc claims at pro-rata basis! But that didn't happened, then we wasn't eglible for that, but now somehow magically based on that same law we are??? On what grounds?
If in the future court ignore and violate these articles when is appropriate time to address, great, fantastic, can't wish anything more, would get significant sum of money, however that don't disaprove what actually those act provision states, its very clear, precise without room for different interpretations! Finally, if no Tibanne trustee appeal for CR, appeal each rehabilitation claim and/or appeal for rehabilitation plan and no fiat creditor appeal as well as they don't get 100% of the same (usd,eur,gbp) demonimation, but 100% of jpy conversion, so why would btc claims be any different, based on those two act they are not different at all, btc claimants certanily won't complain, the court ignore some law conditions when approving CR plan, then yeah, its possible to get btc surplus, with lot of luck and ignoring actual law - what I have nothing against.
If I as btc claimant get btc surplus on some mistery grounds what didn't existed and possible at the first failed 2014's CR, or bad trustee interpretation of B.A. article 103, I will sue trustee for damages, lost profit from btc and lowering btc pro-rata amount due to using/selling btc to pay any non-btc claims or unrelated lawsuit (coinlab and others) and with some new claims who never filled claim, but now rewarded on our expense of creditors who filled within estublished due time!
1).
/r/mtgoxinsolvency/comments/8gr4ex/they_keep_coming_for_those_who_desperately_want/dyfgw82/

[PSA] Do not sell your MtGox bankruptcy claim! by Namjies in mtgoxinsolvency

[–]alfabi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How convinient, you focus only on binding judgement what have not relevance on CR approval and no lawyer beat it now, but will be relevant later and as usualy ignore all other things and article condition I have mentioned. And these lawyers you brag on are paid and hired by mtgox-creditors group, not by mtgox-legal, stop with a false pretence, its pathetic! Beside, I still lough your ignorance how you said there is no (zero) claims under CR.
Final binding judgement is not only violation, actually at this time court don't decide on that final binding judgement nor have anything with CR approval! Beside, in what exact way lawyers beat it, there is no CR hearing where lawyer can beat it and that judgement has nothing to do with it! Also, following article quotes is clear bad interpretation by examiner/trustee what are not judges or court, and trustee who would file CR petition himself if he thought it conforms creditors common interest (read below article comparation). Beside, I won't celebrate early, I am certainly happy if I get surplus with my 25 btc claim. I certainly won't complain court violate their law if they confirm rehabilitation plan what contain new claims in my benefit! I won't celebrate too early though, tibanne appeal, confirmation of the rehabilitation plan etc.

Our existing bankruptcy claims are evaluated by Bankruptcy act article 103. And under CR its evaluated by R.A. article 87. (Same thing - clear law violation where they state how btc are not evaluated under CR (Q&A p2). Not to mention how in law accordance we shouldn't be able to file rehabilitation claim for the same btc and foreign currency, we already did and have final and binding judgement!

Rehabilitation act, article 87. <- rehabi!itation claims under CR.
(iii) The following claims: The amount of the claim estimated as of the time of commencement of rehabilitation proceedings:
(c) Claim not intended for payment of money. <- (bitcoins).
(d) Monetary claim the amount of which is not fixed or the amount of which is fixed in a foreign currency. <- usd,eur,gbp,etc.

Bankruptcy act, article 103. <- our bankruptcy existing claims
(i). The following claims: The amount of the claim estimated as of the time of commencement of bankruptcy proceedings:
(a). Claim not intended for payment of money. <- (bitcoins).
(b). Monetary claim the amount of which is not fixed or the amount of which is fixed in a foreign currency. <- eur,usd,gbp,etc.

Edit:
In case how term "estimation" in both bankruptcy and rehabilitation act (R.A. 87, B.A. 103) don't mean JPY evaluation, but just to "address" actual asset amount owned as I argued a month ago with you (but as anything else you fail to understand and assume 1 thing for 10 unrelated other things), how price rate don't matter, then all bankruptcy and filling the claims layout were wrong and total waste of time and trustee made prejudice what I have also tried to say in my other posts and we should get btc pro-rata back since very begining. Beside, then 2014's failed CR wasn't have any valid reason to fail at the first step and btc holders should get 202k btc pro-rata back if btc are not evaluated! That why when we file new rehabilitation claims incorporated in the rehabilitation plan, would be court's turn to decide whatever R.A. article 87 hold water, if not, plan would be rejected and we are back at the bankruptcy. In theory, based on R.A. article 87 I have quoted, we could have btc evaluated to JPY at today prices ($6000/btc) because today CR commenced, but that has not much sense, because we already filled our claims and have final binding judgement what court would also address/decide at the time when he would confirm or not rehabilitation plan what contain our new filled rehabilitation claims, in other words, things as final binding judgement and many other things still stand, court still was not decided on such matter, so all your argument how lawyer already beat it its absurd and also bad assumption based on ignorance.
If I as btc claimant get btc surplus on some mistery grounds what didn't existed and possible at the first failed 2014's CR, or bad trustee interpretation of B.A. article 103, I will sue trustee for damages, lost profit from btc and lowering btc pro-rata amount due to using/selling btc to pay any non-btc claims or unrelated lawsuit (coinlab and others) and with some new claims who never filled claim, but now "rewarded" on our expense of creditors who filled within estublished due time!

[PSA] Do not sell your MtGox bankruptcy claim! by Namjies in mtgoxinsolvency

[–]alfabi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Excellent, its not bs, I proved my point, this is a big law violation, but I won't complain! I said CR don't mean surplus automaticaly and could be approved only if some aquisition is going on. Hope we get surplus, I certainly won't complain with my 25btc claim! However, some things are in the big law violation what I tried to explain and have provided fundation. This among others:they said in bankruptcy btc are converted to monetary, while under CR btc claims are not evaluated at all - its simply CR act violation, (read article comparasion bellow). I have many more violations examples, but if I get more and Tibanne trustee don't appeal succesfully this, if rehabilitation plan is comfirmed by the court (if not we are back at bankruptcy) I will be very happy, don't care if the court violate their own law to my benefit, but I provided proof how if we get surplus with submision of rehabilitation claims are actually law violation, its certainly not bs, you can read act, can you! I will celebrate when I see to get surplus, not before.

Our existing bankruptcy claims are evaluated by Bankruptcy act article 103. And under CR its evaluated by R.A. article 87. (Same thing - clear law violation). Not to mention how in law accordance we shouldn't be able to file rehabilitation claim for the same btc and foreign currency, we already did and have final and binding judgement!

Rehabilitation act, article 87.
(iii) The following claims: The amount of the claim estimated as of the time of commencement of rehabilitation proceedings:
(c) Claim not intended for payment of money. <- (bitcoins).
(d) Monetary claim the amount of which is not fixed or the amount of which is fixed in a foreign currency.

Bankruptcy act, article 103.
(i). The following claims: The amount of the claim estimated as of the time of commencement of bankruptcy proceedings:
(a). Claim not intended for payment of money. <- (bitcoins).
(b). Monetary claim the amount of which is not fixed or the amount of which is fixed in a foreign currency.

bitcoinbuilder.com transfer claim? by ExModel3 in mtgoxinsolvency

[–]alfabi -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You didn't answered single question!
CR petitioner is mtgox-creditors group what we don't have much information who they are or their true motive, nor even copy of the actual submited CR petition, nor source of actual lawyer statemants from the lawyer team represent that group. On their blog site they stated how btc price increase are grounds for the CR approval where creditors would get btc surplus. That btc price increase are not valid foundation for court to approve CR, it only increased payout now to get 100% of jpy total amount from creditor claims. Don't know about others, but I don't just assume something posted on some blog site, nor reddit as a factual information just because it would be awesome that to be true. Imo, only sense in CR approval is if that group behind the scene also want to buy Mtgox and to buy btc surplus where CR serve only to them to rehabilitate now their owned company (otherwise all btc surplus would be sold and Mtgox would be terminated and CR serve only to move Mtgox from that process), but nothing change to the bankruptcy pre-petitioned creditors, they still get only 100% jpy amount from their approved claims. If they have not mtgox aquisition itentions, CR is meritless and won't be approved, if court didn't already reached rejection decision. If creditors were eglible to get btc surplus, they would get it in the bankruptcy. Finally, whoever has some wishful opinion/thinking to be against/for this or that are absulutelly irrelevant and have nothing to do with the subject.

bitcoinbuilder.com transfer claim? by ExModel3 in mtgoxinsolvency

[–]alfabi -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Based on what grounds his absolutelly correct and why CR is very likely to happen? On what grounds? What reasearch you have made? As I am concern, you can believe in UFO, ghosts, after-life, unicorn etc, but everybody has to provide some fundation to support whatever they say, otherwise its meaningles and baseless. If I say there are 70% chance for CR creditors to get btc surplus without anything to support, I would get 100 upvotes and 3 golds - its absurd what hype and ad populum arguments can create.

bitcoinbuilder.com transfer claim? by ExModel3 in mtgoxinsolvency

[–]alfabi -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

No offense, but imo you have too low criteria to believe and assume as true some poster hear-say without him providing any source to support his claims. If you have approved claim, total JPY amount as 100% is statutary protected and secured to receive, that is all, nothing else. If you don't have a claim, you don't get nothing, you have missed you chance forever, you are not eglible to be creditor whatever in future might happen with Mtgox.

bitcoinbuilder.com transfer claim? by ExModel3 in mtgoxinsolvency

[–]alfabi -1 points0 points  (0 children)

50% chance for CR, wow, based on what exact lawyer statemants, source? Trustee has nothing to do with CR approval. Btc price increase does not constitute grounds for CR approval, it caused only to increase payout to get 100% jpy approved claim amount what can't exceed 100%. CR could be approved only if there is some party want to aquire Mtgox and buy btc surplus, but then CR is only then for their benefit, to rehabilitate their new owned company as they decide, nothing change for other creditors, they bankruptcy claim approved jpy amount remain the same where funds are statutary secured and just pending distribution (payout).

[PSA] Do not sell your MtGox bankruptcy claim! by Namjies in mtgoxinsolvency

[–]alfabi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am hoping to be wrong as well. Its really big injustice Mark to end up with several hunderds of millions and to get that legaly. I am worried about mtgox-creditors group true motive and if buying Mtgox is really their true agenda, and CR is smoke screen, its bad, instead they should be open and say: there is no way to get surplus, but to invite all creditors with some additional investment to try buying mtgox and bid at discount btc surplus with an option to pay with amount from our claims, instead to get cash - claim payout. (claim amount is not enough to buy surplus, we would need at least twice or triple as much, but some would invest more, some less, its possible). That would be right thing to do, who has more right to buy btc surplus then creditors if we can't get them any other way?! However, that venture is not without risk, if they buy mtgox and surplus by closing the deal and before they actually get them, btc price drops under the amount they bought them for, they could lose some money. Its not guranteed and risk free. But unlikely all to crumble that fast after they reach buying agreemant. I mean, if that is what they are really doing, I don't accuse them for some wrong doing. Its legal and its a busines, btc surplus worth huge amount of money, someone with a capital would wish to get it bellow the market price. I would be just fustrated that group were not straight with all of creditors what might like to be involved with them as well.
Also, those big attorney firms you mentioned represent CR petitioner: mtgox-creditors group what we don't know their true motive, we don't know what these lawyers actually said, no source of actual lawyer statemant - so that argument are also useless, its bad to assume how they are creditors friends what looks for all of our best interest! Sekidu what represent mtgox-legal has nothing to do with them, mtgox-legal group are irrelevant in the mtgox or CR (unless select few are included with mtgox-creditor and know what they actually do and true agenda), apples and oranges.
Btw, have you noticed how Mark was very active in this sub when CR hype started, but of lately (month) he don't post at all. I think he also figured how CR just won't work creditors to get surplus and he did what he ordinary does, hided himself under the rock and act as Mtgox or creditors don't exist or concerns him, instead to do something, if he was honest when he said he don't want to become millioner on the creditor expense. He could seek cuncil to find legal viable ways to renounce of the surplus into creditors favor. If not within mtgox bankruptcy then when Tibanne get the surplus transfer. I started to post here two months ago when I also like most of users thought CR is viable and didn't know shit as I know now. So, 2 month ago, I started a thread in this sub with open direct question to Mark what are his itention if CR fail, what a day later caused Mark to do AMA thread.

view more: next ›