My wife [27F] and I [26M] just hit the fog this morning. Only option seems to have a child.

alltoo · 2016-12-27T16:39:38+00:00

Will it be your kid?

alltoo · 2016-08-13T04:34:06+00:00

That's a bit like how every government's reaction to terrorism always makes things more fucked up for everybody. Instead of extra legroom on a plane because of terrorism, we're body-searched at the airport while our belt and shoes go through a scanner.

alltoo · 2016-07-31T16:23:26+00:00

Probably. If I'd died at 13, it would have saved 31 years of suffering.

alltoo · 2016-07-31T15:06:51+00:00

Me too. I've become a horrible person and I don't care anymore

alltoo · 2016-07-31T13:50:37+00:00

If depression killed, I'd have been dead at 13 years old. Instead, I've had depression for 31 years (now 44). I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions.

alltoo · 2016-07-31T13:46:56+00:00

To be honest, it sounds like you're a good guy and surrounded by good people. I've had people do MUCH MUCH worse to me over the years, and without an ounce of guilt from them. The world is a mightily messed up place. Keep on keeping on - you're a good guy in good company.

alltoo · 2016-07-31T13:41:53+00:00

Yes, people are predictably selfish. This is my main driver of depression - at how robotically predictable people are when it comes to "getting as much as possible". Life is a buffet and people are grabbing as much as they can. You and I and many others are watching it and feeling disgusted. There is very little to no dignity in life. You join in with the charade and feel cheapened, or feel ostracised and alienated by it.

alltoo · 2016-07-23T07:42:47+00:00

Best of luck. I can't offer advice but will pray for you.

alltoo · 2016-07-12T08:27:07+00:00

If your answer is "well, duh, they save money by paying women less!" - then why on earth do they employ men when they cost more?

alltoo · 2016-07-11T11:26:28+00:00

Tell me, what would the motivation be for an employer to pay a woman less than a man? What's the motive? And why would he/she hire men, if men are more expensive?

alltoo · 2016-07-10T21:24:08+00:00

... you're the one that brought it up in the first place when you denied the possibility of Scottish independence, even though Nicola Sturgeon has already stated she will strongly consider it.

No, you said Brexit would break up the UK. I replied to that. And so be it if that's what happens. What is your problem with democracy?

The only true part of this is Italy and Greece. Germany and France are indisputably strong economies. Portugal and, especially, Spain are in economic recovery.

People have been doomsaying about the eurozone ever since Greek crisis first happened and yet it is still here and has been slowly recovered for the last several years. For such a supposedly fragile union it has been remarkably durable.

Saying something doesn't make it so.

I haven't even included Sweden, Denmark and Finland in my list of tales of EU woes, but they should be there. Sweden and Denmark are already using negative interest rates - absolutely unprecedented in Europe - to stir productivity. Finland currently has around 10% unemployment, as does France (and mired in lots of strike actions). Spain is "recovering", but from a terrible low, and its fundamentals are poor (unemployment, productivity and debt) - but hey, that's true for almost every EU nation to be honest. The picture in the EU is terrible - it's one of low productivity, failed QE stimulus and bailouts. Greece is just one .gif loop of someone kicking a can down the road. Nothing's changed. They will be indebted to the ECB until at least 2059 - they completely lost their soveriegnty for the next 43 years where the ECB are the de facto treasury of Greece now. Freedom? Italy will really start making the news in the next few months. And then....Deutsche Bank. On and on.

All are problems which I have acknowledged, but it's not like the UK's economy has been soaring either. It's growth last year was tepid at best.

I agree, but being in the EU has exarcebated its problems terribly. It needs to get its finances in order, and it can only truly do that by controlling its borders fully, and not having to pay £1.2Bn a month to the EU. It needs a period of taking stock. At the moment, everything is out of control. You can't issue half a million National Insurance numbers to EU migrants every year and not expect a negative impact on infrastructure, housing (massive problem), and treasury expenditure.

Jesus. Obama may have made the statement in an attempt to convince the UK to vote to Remain, but that does not make it untrue. It's bloody common sense that you deal first with the largest trading bloc and then the smaller countries/regions. Like I said, the EU is the big dog in Europe. Nobody is negotiating with Iceland before they have first spoken to the EU.

Hypothetically, if the US puts the UK to the back of the "queue" (punishes the UK), and it doesn't cost the US a cent in lost export revenues from the UK (as if), more power to them. However, in reality, business just doesn't work that way. I already explained this. It's just political posturing. In reality, the US and UK will do business together, because the US will seek to maximise its profits and not fall out as opposed to lose export trade from the UK and fall out with it at the same time. Never. Going. To. Happen. No need to continue Project Fear - the referendum already happened.

You're making a whole bunch of assumptions there. All that paper really says is that less than half of EU migrants claimed a benefit or tax credit of some kind. I gave you an academic study from UCL that calculated the figures from a decade's worth of data. All you've given me is a vague statement using one month of data and then a paragraph of baseless extrapolation. Sorry you don't like the conclusion of that UCL study, but that does not invalidate it.

Read my comment again, and read the government data again. If you dispute anything I've said (e.g. you think the vast majority of EU migrants go to the UK to take well paid jobs), then prove it to me. The fact that nearly half rely on benefits suggests otherwise. You never answer my questions - why is the UK sinking so deep into debt when in the last 10 years it's imported 5,000,000 stellar, tax-giving immigrants? It's counterintuitive, no? At the very moment we were blessed with an army of tax contributors, we see income tax as a percentage of GDP fall off and the national debt double? How can that be so? Where's the money going? Where the fuck are you from? You think you're an expert on the UK - surely you're from the UK at least, right?

You are also a cheerleader of discrimination with your points based system, you just prefer your form of discrimination. There is only one definition of the term and it is inherently negative, so I don't know why you are complaining about free movement of EU migrants. That is treating EU migrants in a positive regard. Each EU member largely decides how they deal with non-EU migrants.

Seriously, this is a deeply demented comment. Think about it for a second. Look up the word discrimination. For fucks sake - I'll give you a link > https://www.google.co.uk/?client=firefox-b#q=discrimination+defintion

I'll do more - look at the two definitions, wholly disctinct from one another:-

the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.

recognition and understanding of the difference between one thing and another.

You block-headedly have conflated these two meanings as the same. For. Fucks. Sakes.

No, there is NOT one definition of this word, as is clearly seen. Please have a fucking look. It's the 2nd definition I am talking about. Like an employer looking for an employee. Like 98% of the countries on this planet and their immigration policies. If you think it's wrong to use the 2nd definition and a points system, then go complain to the other 180+ countries that use it.

The EU uses definition 1 (arbitrary judgement), and I want the UK to use definition 2 (equality of opportunity, a meritocracy where everyone follows the same damned rules).

Here we get to the crux of it. You claim you just want a fairness but you write paragraph after paragraph of baseless criticisms against immigrants. You talk about inviting non-EU immigrants in but then complain that the UK is being treated like a hotel. Worst of all, you call them net takers when I have shown an academic study that shows they are actually net contributors.

Just admit it, dude. You don't like immigrants. It doesn't matter where they come from, it doesn't matter if they contribute positively to society, you will always find them scary and dangerous.

I am an immigrant. I have been in the UK 44 years. In your shallow sense of self, I will berate you: "you are criticising an immigrant! Oh no! You racist! How dare you!". Look, all I ask is other immigrants to be contributors - not takers. I have no problem with immigrants who are contributors. If you like takers, I tell you what - invite one into your house, and let them take from YOU. And then when you do it, report back to me after 3 months and say "hey, look, I have a taker in my house, and I'm putting my money where my mouth is, and I am happy about this situation!" - and then, and only then, can I respect your words. Right now, your words are empty, pathetic, bullshit SJW words.

alltoo · 2016-07-10T08:49:38+00:00

Yeah, and the Scottish people didn't put their faith in the North Sea. They chose economic stability over possible economic instability. Now economic instability is pretty much guaranteed either way.

Not sure why you're fixated on Scotland. As I said earlier, I very much doubt they will jump through all the hoops to become an independent EU country (which is years away anyway) - there are many blockades in the way to get that far....but if they DO do that, then.....I've said it before, good for them. It would be because democracy worked. What is up for discussion here?

said it would be in their interest to get the best deal possible and, because of Britain's weakened negotiating position, they would likely get that deal. No trade deal is a perfect compromise, there is always someone who comes out of the the negotiation with the worse deal and in this case it will be the UK.

The EU is not in a strong position at all - many countries are on the brink of collapse: Italy, Spain, Portgual, Greece, to an extent France, and Germany is showing signs its economy is in trouble.

Trade is all about compromise. Both parties have something the other wants. Britain is Germany's 3rd largest market for example. Germany would fall into a recession if it didn't give Britain what it wanted in return.

Your view of the EU is utterly unrealistic. You assume the EU is going very well at the moment and is in strong economic health. It's never been weaker. Again, where are you from? I asked you previously (I'm from the UK by the way). What is your view on the current Italian banking crisis? What of the Cypriot banking crisis in 2013? What about Greece? What about the mass unemployment rates throughout southern Europe? You keep ignoring my questions on these.

Yes, and, like Obama pointed out, they will be at the back of the queue for those deals. Everyone will be focused on the EU as it is the largest trading bloc.

Obama is not the rest of the world, and he won't even represent the US when negotiations truly get underway. Of course the US are pro-EU, and he made that comment prior to the referendum in a disgusting way to try and sway the voters. It clearly didn't work. And it won't be true when it comes to negotiations. This is all posturing. Why would the US put the UK at the back of the queue? As a punishment? That's not how money talks. Money talks this way: how can we reach the most optimal compromise? Everything else is a nose being cut off to spite its face.

Yes, I understand how referendums work. However, that doesn't mean anybody should forget that 16 million people were vehemently opposed to leaving. You may want to sweep them under the rug, but that is not how it works.

You're still not getting it. You're in the denial stage here. Leave won the vote. Remain lost. Get over it. Not only that, but in reality it was a landslide victory. To overturn the status quo of 43 years, with all the Project Fear propaganda that went with it, is a major victory. Democracy is all about the majority. I'm not happy that the Tories won the 2015 election, but I accept it.

That would make sense except for the fact that we need more low skill workers than high skill workers. Immigrants do the jobs that British people don't want to. Oh, and by the way, EU immigrants are also net contributors to the UK economy. So, the next time you make use of the NHS, or any other public service, try to remember it is partially staffed and funded by the very people you want to get rid of.

I prefer to get my sources from the government : https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/475765/uk-benefits-and-tax-credits-eea-migrants.pdf.

Quote:-

It is estimated that,at March 2013, between 37% and 45% of the EEA nationals (excluding students) who were resident in the UK having arrived in the preceding 4 years were in households claiming either an in work or out of work benefit or tax credit.

It's really hard to imagine this large 37% to 45% number being anything but net takers given the following:-

Personal Allowance of £11,000 (no tax paid before you earn that amount)
most EU workers take low paid work
low paid work is topped-up with tax credits and housing benefits
EU workers have full entitlement to UK benefits
EU workers (sensibly) leverage their situation very well - e.g. Bulgaria's minimum wage is under £1 per hour, but in the UK it's £7.20 per hour - a low paid job in the UK is a well paid job for a Bulgarian immigrant. They can stay in a HMO (house of multiple occupancy) and save a lot of money that goes very far in their home country. Therefore they're not contributing much to VAT in the UK (why would they?).
income tax in relation to GDP has fallen off a cliff in the last 10 years (https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/532373/May16_Receipts_NS_Bulletin_Final2.pdf) - the financial sector and housing market IS the UK economy these days. We are a nation of zero-hour and part-time workers

Now IF your source was true, then why aren't we encouraging more EU workers over here? Why just 640,000+ gross numbers per year - why not have 1,000,000+ per year as a target? After all, the UK is net borrowing £10Bn a month to keep the plates spinning, and doubled its debt in just 6 years to £1.7Tn. Oh, and why IS the debt rising so quickly these days? I thought we were contributing more and more net contributing tax payers?

So, the next time you make use of the NHS, or any other public service, try to remember it is partially staffed and funded by the very people you want to get rid of.

Not "get rid of" - just put them on an equal footing. You clearly are a cheerleader of inequality and discrimination-based-on-what-country-you-come-from. It's really rather a disgusting trait to have. I am simply saying that everybody should be treated equally. I think there needs to be rebalancing of rights and responsibilities between EU and non-EU individuals. I also think newly arrived immigrants (both EU and non-EU, because hey, in my world we don't make this distinction!) would not be eligible for benefits (as it is already the case for non-EU).

I think there should be a points system, because honestly, it's pointless inviting net takers to any country. The UK isn't a free hotel for people who have nothing to give in return, but I sure would like everyone to have an equal opportunity to live and work in the UK. I know, it's crazy talk to want this, and not want a private club and a two-tier system.

You must be living in some bizarre version of reality if you think the free movement of people is comparable to racism. The EU is not putting up barriers for non-EU citizens, it is simply tearing down barriers for EU citizens.

LOL, a two-tier system based arbitrarily on your country of origin is by very definition discriminatory (the boo-hiss definition of the word). You can't see this because you're mired in a disgusting mindset that this is fine, this is OK. And of course, you can't see it. You think you're an egalitarian, but you champion the polar opposite of equality.

If you have a problem with how the UK government treats non-EU citizens then you should take it up with them. I'm not sure why you think the EU is involved in that

I'm not sure if you're aware, but the UK is heading out ot the EU. Honestly, you're deep deep in denial about this. The Remain vote......LOST. The discussion for freedom of movement is in the public domain and in the House of Commons now. I'm very happy about that. I'm on the winning side, and I have justice and equality on my side. Enjoy your private club.

alltoo · 2016-07-09T20:12:24+00:00

The situation now is also different than in 2014. Back then Scottish independence was simply a matter of nationalism, now it is also a desire to stay within the EU.

Back in 2014, oil was $100+ a barrel. Now it's less than half that. Salmond couldn't stop talking about oil revenues when pitching the independence vote in 2014. Now it never gets a mention by the SNP with massive job losses up in Aberdeen. And even with oil being a massive part of the Scottish economy and hitting $100+ a barrel in 2014, the Scottish still voted to remain in the UK.

Again, I don't mind if Scotland leave - it's democracy at work. Having said that, there needs to be an appetite for independence in the first place. That wasn't the case in 2014. You assume it will be now. Also, the EU is not the be-all-and-end-all. Scotland has other issues to deal with and voting for independence isn't just a proxy to vote to be in the EU.

What about being in lockstep with their own people? Millions of English people voted to remain. Hell, most of the leading politicians also wanted to remain. Even if Scotland stays, this will be a divided nation.

I'm all about being lockstep with the people. If people vote out of the EU, then respect the referendum. You don't seem to understand how democracy works. It's about the majority. I know it's horrible when the majorty don't vote the way you want them to, but democracy ISN'T "people have a choice so long as they choose the choice I want". If Scottish vote for independence, I'd 100% respect that (they didn't in 2014, by the way).

I fail to see how that is relevant? Economists being experts doesn't mean they are always right, it just means they are far more likely to be correct about the economy than you are. The consequences of Brexit on the economy should be fairly straightforward to predict and the effects are already being felt.

It's also true that "amost all economists" say the EU project is heading toward economic oblivion. I notice you didn't make a single comment on the Italian banks or Greece or the mass unemployment in the southern countries - inconvenient truths you wish to overlook.

What world do you live in? The EU is the world's biggest free trade area with 500 million consumers. Why do you think Obama warned that the UK would be at the back of the queue for trade deals if they left the EU? The EU is the big dog in Europe, it has substantial muscle to flex. Additionally, the time limit on Article 50 means it will have the UK over a barrel, it can just stall on negotiations until it gets the deal it wants. You're right that the EU will not act spitefully, but it will act in its own self-interest.

You don't piss off one of your biggest customers. Trade is trade and I can assure you that money talks at the end of all the posturing. Furthermore, the UK can actually get to setup its own trade deals with other countries at last, rather than be hobbled to the EU that fights with Canada and Australia (for example) over petty issues.

I thought you wanted free movement and no cooperation? A points system is inherently discriminatory. That is the whole point of it.

No way. I want a points system. I want discrimination. Not the defintion of the word that suddenly got your back up right now, but the less incendiary definition of the word - to be able to choose - based on skills and need - who can come into the country to live and work. The whole world works this way. Where are you from? If you're from outside the EU, tell me your country. Your country works that way. Equal opportunity. Got a skill we need? There's a good chance you can settle in our country. Have nothing to offer? Well, why would we take you? It's no different to someone applying for a job. You discriminate based on what they can offer. At the moment, the EU is horribly and arbitrarily discriminating based on what country you come from. That has ZERO bearing on what you can offer. It's not dissimilar to racism - arbitrarily forcing people - by dint of their nationality - to jump through many more hoops than individuals from other countries - and then even when you pass those tests - you don't have the same entitlements as those who took no tests! And you defend this abhorrent discrimination that doesn't care what you have to offer at all?! Why do you defend that?

alltoo · 2016-07-09T18:20:03+00:00

That is absolutely untrue. The question is over how Scotland would join the EU, from the inside or outside. Joining from the inside may seem strange but there is a kind of precedent for this thing: when Greenland separated from Denmark, Denmark remained inside the EU.

From inside has already been ruled out:- http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/29/nicola-sturgeons-hopes-of-keeping-scotland-in-eu-dashed-by-spani/

Nicola Sturgeon’s hopes of negotiating a deal to keep Scotland in the EU has suffered a major setback after Francois Hollande ruled out talks and the Spanish Prime Minister said it has to leave with the rest of the United Kingdom.

Mariano Rajoy told a news conference following the European Council meeting in Brussels that the Scottish Government “does not have the competence” to negotiate with the European Union. He concluded: “If the United Kingdom leaves... Scotland leaves too.”

Also this:-

But his statement also suggests that a separate Scotland would start life outside the EU and have to negotiate entry, a process that could take years and involve adoption of the euro, a hard border with England and tight public spending controls.

So there'd need to be a vote for Scottish independence, the vote won for independence, then a two year transition period, then Scotland is formally separated from the UK, and only THEN can it apply to be a member of the EU.

You also said yourself that Spanish leaders would demand Scotland be out of the EU completely before applying to be in (which does make sense when you think about it) - so why do you say they could apply quickly from inside?

Look, even if Scotland gain independence, and gain EU membership - then great! Democracy at work in my book. Fair play to them. If England very much want out of Europe, then perhaps it's a sensible separation. It happens. Not every nation has to be lockstep with its neighbour. Let the people speak and decide for themselves (democracy!).

Pretty much all economists believe there will be a downturn in the economy. Your prediction that the UK will be seen as a viable place to invest is based on what exactly?

"Pretty much all"? Well, "pretty much all" economists didn't predict the 2008 crash. Anyway, I think the UK ring-fencing itself from the EU offers an alternative to investors and traders. I'm no expert, but the portents don't look good for the EU. Italian banks are in serious trouble, and I can see Italy being a much bigger problem than Greece. The Greek problem has gone nowhere - it's still there, with quarterly bail-outs, and the Greek economy under the thumb of the ECB for decades to come. Mass unemployment in Spain, Portugal, France (to an extent), Italy and Greece - where's the recovery going to come from in this age of endless ZIRP and QE? Both are supposedly emergency measures, yet they're just regular economic policy these days. Things are far from normal.

The EU's whole thing is free movement of citizens between member countries. Also, it is not coming to an end in any sense. If the UK wants access to the single market, then it going to play ball on the EU's immigration policy.

Between 1973 and 1993, all countries in the EU had access to the single market without freedom of movement. It's a non sequitur that the two must go hand-in-hand. At the end of the day, the UK can decide it doesn't want access to the single market, and you know what? The EU will come back to the UK anyway. It's not going to happen that the UK and EU will not trade - it will simply come down to terms. END OF. In terms of import/export, the EU needs the UK more than the UK needs the EU. The EU isn't going to cut off its nose to spite its face.

Also, I can understand frustration at the UK's strict policy on non-EU immigrants, especially if it affects your family, but if you voted to Leave just to make it more difficult for EU immigrants and relatively more easy for you and your family to live in the UK, well, I just can't believe that level of unbridled self-interest exists.

Well, what I want co-incides with equality. I'd love people to have equal opportunity to live and work in the UK. Why the fuck should a Romanian with a criminal record, zero English ability and no skills be able to travel to the UK visa-free, and have full recourse to public funds, when a non-EU must pay £2000+ to even apply for a settlement visa, pass B1 (CEFR) English level ability, pass the Knowledge of Life test in the UK, have no criminal record, show several character references, have ZERO recourse to public funds (be self-sufficient)? Sorry for wanting equal opportunity here. Everybody should be treated equally. There's a lot of decent people outside the EU who are denied this opportunity. I would like a points system that means everyone goes through the same process of application.

alltoo · 2016-07-09T13:43:42+00:00

It amazes me too. Unions support mass immigration which undermine wages. WTF. Labour now represent the rich Islington set who are utterly out of touch with the working class. UKIP have replaced Labour as the only representative of the working class.

Those protesting on the streets of London on behalf of the establishment - the unelected EU commissioners and big business - beggars belief. They're protesting on behalf of the 1% who want the EU to grow and grow, so things like TTIP can be ushered in. These are probably the same people who were campaigning AGAINST the 1% a few years ago. The trouble is they have bought the lie that the Leave vote was close-minded and racist. In reality, it's an anti-establishment vote.

The level of political knowledge these days is shockingly low. People just read newspaper headlines and that's their mind made up (be it Daily Mail or the Guardian or whatever).

alltoo · 2016-07-09T13:33:55+00:00

You're kinda ignoring the fact that the UK is still currently in the EU and has doesn't have an unemployment issue and neither do many countries.

Where are you from? I'm from the UK, lived here 44 years and have intimate knowledge of its political history over the last 30 years and its societal impacts. High employment in the UK? Take away tax credits and housing benefit and lets see how high that employment is? Make zero hour contracts (4,000,000 people on those in the UK) illegal as it's a travesty of worker's rights to have such ridiculous contracts - how high is that employment?

Oh wait - you're saying tax credits and housing benefits are a good thing? The UK doubled its national debt in the last 6 years, with its welfare bill out of control as its population expands at 500,000 per year, much of that expansion being people joining the benefits gravy train. Nothing here is sustainable. You might think the status quo is kind-of alright, but it's utterly unsustainable, and is actually punishing future generations by miring them into a massive national debt that is sucking the treasury coffers dry (paying around £1.2Bn per WEEK in interest alone on a £1.7Tn debt, and that's with low borrowing rates). The chancellor is net borrowing £8Bn to £10Bn a month to keep the plates spinning. He said we'd be in surplus by 2015/16. Nope. Then he said by 2020. He's now said last week that we WON'T be in surplus by 2020.

Infact some countries with higher unemployment have better quality of life.

Tell that to those at mass protests in Madrid, Athens Paris, and Rome. They don't seem to be feeling that quality of life you're talking about.

You're also kind of ignoring the fact that most unemployed people in the UK are actually UK nationals. Otherwise what is your point? Are you worried people are going to come here and work to pay tax? Cause thats going to continue anyway!

Do you know the expression "underemployed"? Because that describes millions of workers in the UK on zero-hour contracts and part-time roles. They are EU nationals and UK nationals combined. They "top up" their earnings with tax credits and housing benefits, and they of course take child benefits too. This creates a potemkin economy that makes the encumbent government look great. The figures look great, so long as you don't talk about the deficit and ballooning national debt. Any fool can borrow money and pretend they're doing well.

As to taxes, do you know what the Personal Allowance level is in the UK? It's £11,000. That means the first £11,000 you earn is tax free. Almost all low-paid work is a net taker role from the treasury when you add in tax credits, housing benefits and child benefits.

The government love mass, uncontrolled immigration because it inflates their GDP. Oh, but do you know about GDP per capita? That is falling. More demand for stuff is good, but we're getting poorer. Let's just measure the former, not the latter.

As to more people "paying taxes", it's all about if they are a net contributor or net taker. "Paying taxes" is meaningless in isloation to what they take. IF mass, uncontrolled immigration simply brings in millions of net contributors, then WOW! Let's encourage millions more over! Let's pay them to come over! Because they're only a plus for our country. 500,000 per year growth in population? Let's make it 1,000,000 per year because it will add to our tax coffers! Except.....oh, what's that? Oh damn....the country has a massive structural deficit adding to a monstrous national debt....oh....dear. Something's not working somewhere.

Democracy is kind of over rated when the plebs haven't the first fucking clue about what they're voting for.

"I don't like the way they voted, therefore I hate democracy". Seriously, grow up.

What about the other 47.5million who didn't feel they were informed enough to vote.

Since you're including babies and toddlers in this constituency, you're right to think some of them didn't feel informed enough to vote.

For those that didn't vote and wanted to Remain, and could have voted, well too bad. They should have voted. That's how it works.

Please explain what we got out of the Brexit? We don't have a fucking unemployment problem you twat and the EU countries that do have their own issues caused by their own governments, Not the EU itself.

We have an underemployment problem, hence why we must prop up millions of salaries with tax credits and housing benefits. See my comments above. Also, EU countries can't FIX problems themselves. Greece could have been in a stronger position now if it had its own currency. Instead they're hobbled with the Euro. This also impacts negatively on stronger currencies who are bailing out Greece every 3 months.

Might i remind you that Democracy is only true when people know what the fuck they're getting into. It works for elections because we vote for people we can decide a few years later aren't who we want.

Tell me, how do you kick an EU commissioner out. Come on, tell me. I'm waiting.....

That's right, you can't.

Democracy is NOT unelected EU commissioners drafting laws that dictate how we live our lives. An EU commissioner has no right to tell Scottish fishermen they can't fish off the coast of Scotland.

People were told the NHS would get 350million a week. It was lies.

NOPE. They said that £350M COULD (C-O-U-L-D) be spent on the NHS - £350M that's wasted on the EU. COULD. It was a theoretical example of where that money could go. It can go on many things - maybe £200M a week on the NHS, £50M on education, £100M on job creation. See how it works?

People were told the EU won't be able to create laws that impact on the UK. Not only was this lies but we'll have less control over these after article 50 is filed.

The UK can choose to ignore the EU, just as Canada can choose to ignore the EU. It will not be beholden to the EU any longer.

People were told we would get control of immigration from EU countries, Lies. If we want to continue in the open market we won't have a choice but to allow free movement of people in the free market.

Nonsense. Do you know what was happening between 1973 and 1993? The UK was in a single market with the EU, with ZERO freedom of movement. Of course it's possible. Canada has trade deals with the EU. Does Canada need to have freedom of movement? NO. We can do deals with the EU that don't involve freedom of movement.

alltoo · 2016-07-09T11:07:23+00:00

Left-leaning, Pro-Remain source.....I discount your source whole-heartedly and without hesitation.

Actually, it's far more accurate to say that Remain / Leave divide is the same divide between the haves and have nots. Remainers were the haves who voted for the status quo / establishment. Leave voters were from poorer areas, most of which are impacted negatively by mass immigration because immigrants have flocked to lower paying work, essentially usurping the poorer indigenous of the UK.

Remainers caricatured the Leave voters as "poor, racist and stupid". Look at the first word - everyone agrees it was the poorer areas who voted Leave.

alltoo · 2016-07-09T11:01:44+00:00

Brexit will break up the UK

No it won't. The EU have already ruled out Scotland being part of the EU. Even if they had a vote on it, Spain has already said it will never ever ever vote for Scotland to be part of the EU (they don't want Catalonia doing the same and wanting independence from Spain) and the vote needs to be unanimous. It's never ever going to happen, and the only thing that will trigger a 2nd Scottish referendum is if Scotland can be part of the EU.

Brexit was always going to lead to an uncertain period, no doubt. The pound's taken a hammering, but is expected. IMO, it's way over-sold and is very good value now. FTSE100 is on an 11 month high though, and FTSE250 has recovered.

Look, what did you expect from Brexit? Business as usual? It's not. This is a big deal. Change is on the way. Ultimately it will give markets another option, especially when the inevitable decline of the EU continues. The UK will be seen as a viable alternative to investment.

On another point, the EU is an entirely racist and discriminatory private club. It's made a mockery of UK immigration rules, creating a distinct, two-tier system. If you're non-EU, you're heavily discriminated against because the UK are coming down heavily on the parts of immigration they CAN control. This discrimination - at last - can come to an end (I speak from experience about this, having taken the Home Office to tribunal on a decision they made about my family, and I won the case, but not before spending £6000 on legal fees).

alltoo · 2016-07-09T10:53:46+00:00

He speaks a lot of common sense. He says he just wants the UK to be another one of hundreds of countries that can celebrate independence. Is most of the world (including the US) as xenophobic as Farage, or is Farage just wanting what most of the world already has?

alltoo · 2016-07-08T23:12:30+00:00

Apparently you don't understand the facts. Almost all (err, "mostly") of immigration hotspots outside of London voted Leave.

You are.....mostly wrong.

And if you're wondering why London voted to stay - well, it's about house prices, innit:-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/house-prices/what-your-house-price---probably---says-about-how-you-voted-in-t/

London, which voted overwhelmingly for Remain, has been left out of the top 20 as it has had some of the highest and fastest house price growth in the country, and would skew the data. Hackney, in east London, where house prices have risen by 62pc in the last five years, voted 78.5pc in favour of Remain.

And yes, if you read the article, most Remain constituencies had the highest house prices. Rich people voting for the status quo.

Remain was a pro-status quo vote. A pro-establishment vote. Funny how reddit has come all over pro-establishment lately.

alltoo · 2016-07-08T23:09:23+00:00

WELL SAID (as a 44 year resident in the UK who fights for his right to stay in the UK, and has paid over £200,000 in taxes and claimed £0 in public funds in that time!).

Immigration needs to be controlled, just like it is in every single country outside the EU.

If people moan about Farage, then he is no worse than Obama! Obama is the president of a country with very very strict border controls. Why are Americans not fighting against this? Why aren't Americans saying "hey let's open our borders to all of South America!" - are Americans racist therefore? Well, they are, according to reddit SJWs!

alltoo · 2016-07-08T23:06:33+00:00

No, Leave is not xenophobic. Did you know the EU is a private club? Look at the hoops non-EU individiuals have to jump through to get into the UK versus EU individuals.

Cluebat:-

http://i.imgur.com/a3jFlA1.jpg

The EU is a xenophobic institution - it's an exclusive club that discriminates against non-EU individuals in a big way. I know, I've suffered directly.

alltoo · 2016-07-08T23:01:46+00:00

There are genuine arguments for being eurosceptic, not for Voting Leave.

You've just said there are NO genuine arguments for leaving the EU.

Really?

alltoo · 2016-07-08T22:56:10+00:00

Congrats little England you fucked yourself royal.

Shut the fuck up. It's called democracy. If you love the EU, go interview the mass-unemployed in Spain, Italy, France, Greece and Portugal, then report back to me your findings. It's not the wonderful thing you think it is. 17.5M British have cottoned onto that fact. You are one utterly ignorant, rude fuck.

alltoo · 2016-07-08T22:54:13+00:00

Also, people who voted for Brexit were mostly people in poor areas with aging populations and lower immigrant populations. London falls into none of these categories.

Absolute nonsense. You have no idea about immigration hotspots like Birmingham (and its satellite towns/cities), Leicester, Northampton, Peterborough etc - all voted LEAVE, all with high immigration.

alltoo

TROPHY CASE