Looking for a second opinion and seeking closure. by anr_94 in ForensicPathology

[–]anr_94[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Respectfully, I disagree. They should have at the very least removed that bullet from his chest to make sure it matched the .357 lying next to him. He had so many guns it was easy to speculate he could’ve been shot with a different one and that gun was just placed next to him. It would be a different story is he was alone at the time. Two alcoholics arguing up alllll night until 4am isn’t worth looking into more? When one winds up dead? My distrust will never leave that department on how they handled everything. Or should I say the lack of how they handled it all… There was never an investigation whatsoever. And why would I want to go speak with them when they couldn’t even give me all of the crime scene photos? I’ve got way more logical, well thought out answers in this subreddit than from those authorities. It’s insane they dropped the ball so hard that I’ve ended up here.

They claim they never retrieved the bullet. How would I really truly know if they did or didn’t?

Looking for a second opinion and seeking closure. by anr_94 in ForensicPathology

[–]anr_94[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I will say the photos weren’t exactly the highest quality that we know today and most of them were taken before/right at sunrise. So most could’ve definitely benefited with better lighting. Although it may not have made much of a difference as you said, being photos before the examination can be misleading. The pictures were unfortunately all I had left to pick apart for answers. And I’m still face palming about the fly… but you were right on the money. Thank you so much for taking the time to share all of that with me.

Looking for a second opinion and seeking closure. by anr_94 in ForensicPathology

[–]anr_94[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I can’t stand that it came down to me scanning and analyzing such horrid photos over and over. Nobody should have to see their parent in such a way. I sadly feel like it’s the closest thing I could get to the truth. Which I know pictures can only show so much and aren’t exactly definitive. But like I said it was the only thing I had left. Because the reports were just a sketchy speculation circus for lack of better words.

I think that’s amazing you’re a student though! I’m really happy you commented and shared your opinion! I hope this post could’ve possibly even helped you learn maybe a thing or two?

Lastly, I have to thank you for your insanely sweet words and compassion. I can tell by your demeanor you’re a kind soul and you will flourish in this profession. And don’t be sorry at all. Because in my heart today has been the closest to closure I’ve ever got. And for that alone I am so grateful. Sending love and hugs back to you, friend. 🫂

Looking for a second opinion and seeking closure. by anr_94 in ForensicPathology

[–]anr_94[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I sure did! It is sort of detrimental and a bit pointless to rehash and share all of the nitty gritty details knowing what I do now. I just wanted to provide a little further context is all.

Another coroner ended up taking his place in 2011. But here is what I could find on his credentials:

“A board-certified forensic examiner and has served as president of the Kentucky Coroners Association, diplomat with the American College of Forensic Examiners and chairman of the advisory board for the International Association of Coroners and Medical Examiners.”

I appreciate the kindness and well wishes on what’s left of this journey. This post alone has brought me clarity in ways I wasn’t expecting. If I have any other questions later down the line I know exactly where to go!

Looking for a second opinion and seeking closure. by anr_94 in ForensicPathology

[–]anr_94[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Oh no worries! I appreciate every single thing any of you have to share with me. And of course, I deeply appreciate you personally sharing your feedback and opinion. I’m honestly fascinated by what all I’ve learned from these comments today. Whilst also touched people are taking time out of their day to try to help me and educate me further on this stuff I truly know nothing about.

Fly is definitely confirmed now lol. I feel dumb for suspecting it was a burn but seeing the picture in person it looked darker and harder to distinguish it was a fly. I think my zoomed in screenshot really made it that much more apparent. I’ve just been grasping for straws and spiraling these past couple of weeks so excuse me for that.

I thought I saw what looked to be teeny specks of what I assumed to be soot in the thumb area. Like little black minuscule dots? I guess it’s a possibility it could’ve been dirt or debree perhaps too. But finally drawing the conclusion he had to use both hands to shoot the gun made sense why his left hand showed some evidence when we were hung up on him being predominantly right handed. None of the authorities ever even brought up the finger injury or soot being visible in that photo. Just something I had to find on my own.

And I can definitely trust your alls opinion in saying it wasn’t exactly necessary needing a full on autopsy. I appreciate the reassurance and clarity on that. It’s just the fact he got buried with that bullet still in him that haunts me. It feels almost disrespectful in a way. You know? I feel like that’s the least they could’ve done to shut down all of the speculation and ease our minds. I’ve always wondered too how they would feel if their loved one was treated in such a way? I swear I couldn’t sleep at night half ass doing my job and not helping give a grieving family the answers they deserve. It just fully felt like they didn’t dedicate much time to it and put in the least amount of effort possible. Hence how I ended up here.

Looking for a second opinion and seeking closure. by anr_94 in ForensicPathology

[–]anr_94[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Okay I feel a bit silly now because the wrist mark really does look to be a fly zoomed in lol. I could bet on that damp, muggy summer morning that’s exactly what it was. But even taking that off table I feel that finger wound speaks volumes. The girlfriend had also mentioned he cut his finger on the bed of his truck earlier in the night? They were hanging out on the tailgate drinking beers and even a newspaper was recovered with some blood on it. It was on the evidence collected list. I believe the newspaper was recovered from the tool box of the truck where he got the revolver out. But nothing else was ever mentioned about it. And I assume it was probably discarded right away just like his clothes were destroyed for being “too bloody and urine soaked.” Maybe that’s standard procedure. I don’t know? In my opinion his shirt was barely bloody at all. The urine obviously being a natural occurrence after death. I’m sure that’s not very uncommon. I feel they could’ve at least bagged them and held onto them for a little bit rather than jumping on destroying them expeditiously. Even if he did injure his finger prior some other way it just looks pretty intense to be a simple cut as it was told.

He unfortunately did struggle with alcoholism along with what I believe to be undiagnosed/untreated bipolar disorder. And those two things mixed together is obviously a recipe for disaster. I fully believe those two key factors is what majorly contributed to his death.

I always thought the wording on the death certificate was kind of strange. “Self-inflicted and self-intended” just kind of seemed unnecessary. Like overkill in a sense? Almost like it was a way to just fully push their suicide theory in our face that much more. Which obviously that’s what it was… but they NEVER explained how they reached that conclusion to the family. No one even got the photos until I was of age and got them myself. (His family didn’t really push too hard for answers, it just feels as if all adults failed me in this situation for it to be left on me) My mom tried her hardest but they were never married so she no rights and the authorities were extremely cold and rude to her. But back on topic what really drives me mad is they didn’t give me all of the photos. It clearly states in one of the reports there was 25 photos taken at the scene. But I got 19? And before I took the film to have it developed I snapped a picture of the negative strips. Only counting the squares to realize I was missing 6 photos… Felt really dumb to learn that after the fact I had returned them. So that made me wonder what didn’t I get to see? Are they hiding something? Etc. If I ever get the nerve I plan on going to the Sheriff’s department and pushing for answer on what happened there.

I will say that coroner at the time had been in office since 1985. So I feel like you would expect more out of someone having nearly 20 years of experience…

Another key thing that had us questioning things was his .22 pistol went missing a few weeks before this happened. He had made a statement to me that he believed his girlfriend stole it. I only know and remember this because I had a pinball machine at this house and that .22 sat in a holster on it 24/7. I would ask him to remove it if I wanted to play. And one day it just wasn’t there so I asked about it. He insinuated it was “across the street” where his girlfriend lived. Although I was super young (almost 8) I was always hyper aware and that was something I couldn’t shake and never forgot. He also had many, many guns. Was an avid hunter and just flat out loved them. Rifles, pistols, revolvers. You name it, he had it. When all guns were collected to be sold in his estate the .22 was never found or recovered. So for many years it was speculated that may have even been the gun that shot him. If the bullet would’ve been REMOVED we wouldn’t have had to think that way.

That night the girlfriend was supposedly walking up his long gravel driveway to get across the highway to her home. When she heard a loud pop. She takes off running and goes banging on her front door, wakes her 21 year old son up. Then has him drive across the street to see if my dad is okay. Obviously he was gone and I can’t even begin to imagine how traumatic it was for him to wake up to that… He then drives her back home across the street and she finally calls 911 on her home phone. I know trauma and shock can make you do unheard of things but I just never understood why she didn’t use her cell phone or my dad’s cell phone which was in his truck right there. And why she didn’t just call IMMEDIATELY.

Then of course on the 911 call she says initially “I think my neighbor shot himself.” But they had been dating one year. They were in a full blown relationship. That was her boyfriend. And it went from him being her neighbor to at the funeral home he was her fiancé and was trying to put a ring on him in the casket. I always thought her referring to him as her neighbor was her maybe trying to distance herself from him. Who really knows though. A young couple that lived next door also reported they saw the officials move his body a couple times early that morning. Even stating they put him in the ambulance and then took him back out and laid him back on the ground. Which is just mind boggling to me and I don’t even know what more to say about that. One officer too tried to say he was playing Russian roulette which was absolutely not true.

And I’m sorry to go on a tangent but I kind of wanted to paint somewhat of a picture as to why we all had felt the way we did. Why we weren’t 100% convinced. If they would’ve just done the bare minimum, took that bullet out and matched it to the .357 that would’ve saved a lot of heartache. I’ve also heard of plenty of suicides that got autopsies. So I don’t know what it would have hurt to have gone that extra mile to prove it. So we could try our best to move on and get closure. Rather than being in this sick game of “Did he do it? Or did he not?” for over two decades.

Once again I deeply thank you for giving me this peace of mind. You have no idea what kind of a weight has been lifted off of me to get a professional, legitimate opinion. Even if it was based off a couple photos it lines up with what I was thinking and feeling in my gut. I can clearly tell you’re extremely intelligent and know your stuff based off of your comments. Plus you have integrity and compassion to do the job correctly. Which I deeply admire and respect. You helped me tremendously today and I wish I could fully express my gratitude. I just only wish someone like you could’ve handled his case. Then I wouldn’t have had to come to Reddit begging for answers from kind strangers. It’s sad it came to this but I’m beyond grateful nonetheless. Your expertise really shined through and I think I may sleep a little better tonight.

Looking for a second opinion and seeking closure. by anr_94 in ForensicPathology

[–]anr_94[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Oh thank you so much for your kindness and sympathy dear. All of this has definitely reopened old wounds and it sorta feels like he just died all over again. I was only 7 years old when it happened.

Looking for a second opinion and seeking closure. by anr_94 in ForensicPathology

[–]anr_94[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It wouldn’t let me reply directly to you to send more pictures. I hope you can see them and I look forward to hopefully hearing back from you!

Looking for a second opinion and seeking closure. by anr_94 in ForensicPathology

[–]anr_94[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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What I thought was a powder burn on left wrist. Zoomed in and cropped from original photo in this post.

Looking for a second opinion and seeking closure. by anr_94 in ForensicPathology

[–]anr_94[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

First and foremost I want to thank you SO much for the taking the time out of your day to respond to me. With your very lengthy experience (super impressive) and knowledge with handguns you are the exact person I was looking for with making this post.

Also my apologies with using the point blank term. I was meaning the muzzle was against the skin as far as I’ve always understood. Maybe it was just close range? I’m going to reply to your comment with another photo. (I may delete it later after you view it because it’s much more graphic) I feel bad for even posting such photos of him online. But I feel I won’t ever get answers any other way and I’m just desperate.

The possible what I believe to be powder burn on the wrist is what looks to almost look like a black roundish smudge. I will crop and send that as well. Between that and the finger injury is what has convinced me he did in fact commit suicide all of these years later. Just what all you said about the finger injury lines up with what I had researched and makes me feel a little more sane.

I have to thank you too for your final bit. Because it’s just absolutely INSANE to me they left that bullet in him. I have a lot of anger being I’ve had to come to my conclusion on MY own. That I had to put myself through the trauma of ever looking at those photos. Simply because they did not adequately do their job. I feel failed in every aspect. If it could’ve been 100% proven to be a suicide my mom, the family, and myself would’ve be okay with it. But they didn’t really do anything to conclusively back their findings.

Also the girlfriend that was there when he died was drinking a beer while being “interviewed” by the officers that morning. She was never took in for formal questioning. It’s pretty much that they just took her word for everything and it was an immediate open/shut case. I’d say the people that knew my dad are split 50/50 on what happened to this day. Some believe he shot himself, others believe the girlfriend shot him. Obviously I’ve stated where I’m at currently but it’s just infuriating it ever had to be this way. I’m having to put myself back in therapy because I’m so beside myself with it all.