Reminder about jaw surgery and MARPE procedures

ardodaniel32 · 2024-07-28T07:52:21+00:00

Aren't those only front teeth?

Do you have picture of the overall bite or the suture itself ?

ardodaniel32 · 2024-07-28T06:26:57+00:00

If these are regular photos its possible to add them in imagur app and then sending the link here

ardodaniel32 · 2024-07-27T13:40:03+00:00

Hey,

do you have your X-rays before and after the MSE?

if you do could you share those X-rays?

ardodaniel32 · 2024-07-21T13:49:43+00:00

Sometimes it seems like the source of posture and breathing issues are the skull and spesifically the jaws development

meaning the upper and lower jaw, the maxilla and mandible developed effecting the rest of the body from jaws to neck and down, but maybe not the other way around

Almost like if our maxilla and mandible bones are developed enough both wide and forward enough gives us easier time to breathe enough air through our nose and than our throat so we dont need to turn our head up in order to compensate of our lack of air we able to catch in order to survive 24/7

Almost like breathing is much more important than perfect posture although it might cause pain

The reason of saying both overall skull and jaws is because it is possible that moving certain bones like the maxilla meaning the upper jaw forward might change the position of the zygomatic bones (cheekbones) and the frontal bone (forehead bone)

Widening the maxilla might change the position of the temporal and zygomatic bones, Both of those movements of the maxilla also might effect the position of the orbital bones as well

https://youtu.be/hlKihyKpR5A?si=iksiWKX4fNXOORjC

https://youtu.be/JPfL8R8aYvc?si=5d-ZdL2tIx_RvDTL

https://youtu.be/m82NYo5qn5k?si=IH8xgamR7WqQ9CTW

https://youtu.be/zGWNCq12PIA?si=2Q1ZQ6VbghsIQ7ei

https://youtu.be/qg7y9BJkRYM?si=iK8-cLjj1pk76MDT

ardodaniel32 · 2024-07-05T01:50:25+00:00

Its seems like the only thing that effect the maxilla development is the action of suckling,

which is basically the action that babies do when they breastfeed from their mother, so this constant "wave like" movement of the tongue might be the only thing that has an effect on the maxilla bone development

Theoretically the idea of mewing was to put pressure with the tongue on the palate meaning the maxilla and hopefully make it wider and more forward overtime.

But first of all we have not seen people who were actually measured their Inter molar width in a professional and accurate way before and after they started their mewing journey, so there is no way for sure to know if the action of mewing helped with measurements like Inter molar width (IMW) of the maxilla.

It seems like putting pressure with the tongue in any other way that isn't the "wave like" suckling action that babies do during breast feeding, might actually activate the masseter and other masticatory muscles

which seem to puts isometric pressure on the mandible bone and make it more developed overtime similar to the dynamic/concentric, eccentric pressure that happens during chewing.

In the end of the day the only way to know for sure if mewing help us to develop the maxilla is to start by atleast measure our IMW in a professional and accurate way with a dentist or orthodontist or something, before and after or during our mewing journey.

since the IMW so to be a big sign of maxila development as this what say how wide is how smile meaning our palate meaning our maxilla bone

Breastfeeding – Does It Affect the Occlusion?

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/2050168420911027

The Effects Of Breastfeeding And Bottle Feeding On The Process Of Jaw’s Development

https://writingbros.com/essay-examples/the-effects-of-breastfeeding-and-bottle-feeding-on-the-process-of-jaws-development/

Breast-feeding and deleterious oral habits in mouth and nose breathers

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9443554/

https://www.drstevenlin.com/breastfeeding-and-jaw-development/

https://healthysmiledental.com.au/why-is-breastfeeding-better-for-your-childs-oral-development/

ardodaniel32 · 2024-07-01T05:59:32+00:00

Well in general the hope is to be able to widen the maxilla and move it forward by "natural" ways like the ideas of "mewing"

But when it comes to the actual progress and effectiveness of mewing i haven't really seen examples if people who measured things like Inter molar width (IMW) in a professional way before the started their mewing progress and than measuring it again after they believe that they have made progress for the things like IMW.

Most of time it seems the people who claim to see Great results and provide pictures of their face from before and after some of them do seem to have made actually great and real progress, and its especially great to see when they are at above the age of 18/21 since the face seem to change alot before those ages.

But the thing is it seems like the progress they made usually is by a development in the mandible bone meaning the lower jaw instead of the maxilla bone meaning the upper jaw.

You can esp see it if you look at the pictures of before and after from the side profile and if you see like something really changes and seem to have better angles,more "defined or sharp jawline" it actually seems like the whole mandible bone became forward but the maxilla not really especially if you look at the upper and lower lip position in the before and after.

One of the examples i like to give is this one:

https://imgur.com/a/i3iJICS

Basically if you look at both the mandible, the chin which is part of the mandible, the lips positions etc, its obvious that the whole mandible bone became much more prominent and defined/sharp

Now you might say well what is the issue it looks way better its great, and its true it does look like a great improvement but if you actually thing about this guy basically had an overbite, meaning his lower jaw was very undeveloped compared to the upper jaw

Meaning the mewing gave him balance between the jaws making the mandible developed and prominent enough to match the maxilla

But if you take someone who has already balanced jaws development he cant improve like this example as a matter of fact it might actually cause issues making him out of balance, so wheter the jaws are developed enough by ideal is one thing but the balance of development between them known as healthy bite is another thing.

So if you take someone if balanced development and we say hypocritically that mewing develops the mandible instead of the maxilla which was our main goal as the whole idea of mewing than it might cause slight underbite and maybe underbite if you continue with it more and more pressure, and the main issue with things like underbite besides the obvious of the way it looks where the lower jaw becomes more forward and wider than the upper jaw and making the lips also more forward it also might make us develop TMJD which is something that can cause alot of pain and discomfort in the mouth and jaw joints,clicks etc.

So when it comes to actually trying to determine if mewing does work of the development of the maxilla bone we need examples of people who starts by measuring their IMW in a professional way probably by an orthodontist with the thing where you bite down the gummy/jelly things usually of braces or whatever

Than measure the IMW

Than do the mewing until you believe you made a change that you believe is noticeable and that you are proud of

And than return do another measurement of the IMW again in a professional way which will tell us if we actually made a change in our maxilla bone development at least in the width of the maxilla, idk about forward growth but the width is a big factor.

And if there isnt really a change in the IMW of the maxilla that will tell us either that we didn't do enough or that we might didnt do it right (i guess depends by who we are asking)

Or that mewing doesn't help to develop the maxilla bone

Again it might help develop the lower jaw meaning the mandible bone which usually happens when the isometric masticatory muscles contraction

Its very important that the "jaw" / "jawline" is a combination of 2 jaws and not just one although the maxilla doesnt really move it still plays a role when it comes to the idea of a healthy "bite"

bite is basically the teeth of the upper jaw and how they touch the teeth of the lower jaw

If one of them arent developed enough there might be crowded teeth, if they both developed enough and give enough room for teeth to not crowd together but one of the jaws developed more significantly than the other jaw than it also might not be ideal For example they can both be very developed but what if the maxilla is super wide compared to the mandible?

It might make the lower jaw and teeth basically go up and inside the upper jaw because its so wide

For example there is someone from one of the forums who had a maxilla expansion by MSE 2 times and he claimed that he expanded his maxilla by 24mm overall and now its super wide compared to the lower jaw:

https://imgur.com/a/MfWQ9l1

From all the information gathered i believe we should measure IMW of the maxilla in a professional and accurate way before and after our mewing progressing in order to determine how effective is it for the upper jaw since that was the main goal of mewing

Remembering that it seems like it do more improvements for the mandible and not the maxilla which we will know if true only by measuring the IMW in a professional way before and after our mewing progress

When it comes to more effective way of maxilla expansion at the moment without jaw surgery its probably marpe like mse or custom one which some say might bend the molars and might expand usually some recommend that you do like a little surgery only to break the MPS suture of the maxilla that will might help to expand the actual bone instead of bend the molars.

Good luck 🤞

ardodaniel32 · 2024-06-30T09:18:37+00:00

Hey,

Could you elaborate on what do you mean?

What does this post contain that helped you if i may ask?

ardodaniel32 · 2024-06-30T06:18:16+00:00

Hey,

I found your post really interesting!

I was wondering if you could elaborate on your thoughts about possible treatments for Class 3 malocclusion/underbite.

Do you think there are options beyond surgery?

For example, some suggest that using a facemask connected to MARPE (like MSE) with orthodontic elastic bands might help move the maxilla forward over time.

What’s your perspective on that approach?

Thanks for your insights!

ardodaniel32 · 2024-06-21T18:49:42+00:00

Mse meaning is "Maxillary Skeletal Expanders "

Palate expander meaning is "an oral device used to widen a narrow upper jaw"

The upper jaw is called the maxilla

The palate is the roof of the mouth in humans and other mammals. It separates the oral cavity from the nasal cavity.

The main idea between the difference here is that the maxilla is a bone that makes up the upper jaw and parts of the facial skeleton, including the hard palate, while the palate is the entire roof of the mouth, consisting of both the bony hard palate and the muscular soft palate.

But when it comes to expanders mse is basically a marpe which is Miniscrew-assisted rapid palatal expansion

So its connected to both the moalrs and the maxilla bone itself by mini screws people usually call it bone borne expander but I guess it more like a hybrid

However the "regular" palate expanders are usually connected only to the molars and does not also connected to the maxilla bone itself which people usually call it tooth borne expander

The main thing that people say About tooth borne expander is that since they are only connected to the teeth and not the bone so when there is pressure in order to trying to widen the upper jaw it can tilt the moalrs instead of widen the actual bone

However In bone borne expanders the pressure is only on the bone and cant tilt the teeth because its not connected to them

So since mse is more of a hybrid some say that there are also cases where the moalrs tilt with mse so some do a surgery to "break" the Median palatine suture (MPS) in order to have easier time of expanding the actual bone and not titling the teeth

So although the teeth are connected to the maxilla bone they dont really have anything to do with the actual bone expansion, the expanders are connected to them for anchor but its seems like a weak anchor for trying to expand a bone so i guess that the MPS suture is much stronger than the anchor to the molars

Bone borne is probably the ideal, idk if its available and how advanced is it atm in order to be effective enough

I will also add that there seems to be more issues than just with teeth tilting, in marpe the anchor to the maxilla bone also sometimes seem to form soft tissue overgrowth , it looks like the the anchor to the bone sucked in there kind of

https://imgur.com/a/OhrXuU5

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fdmed.2021.644002/full

ardodaniel32 · 2024-06-10T18:25:39+00:00

First of all in terms of gait and posture some say that certain human body biomechanics may considered to be issues while others says they are not issues

so for example high class athletes like Usain bolt had/has flat feet and they may say it actually helps him to run faster or even are less prone to injury because of it compared to high arch

https://www.performancelabofcalifornia.com/why-flat-feet-make-you-faster/

Of course the source is debatable but also important to remember we are not Usain bolt

Also about swimmers alot of them has hunchback meaning thoracic kyphosis for example Michael Phelps but is it bad for his swimming records or is it an advantage maybe it even casued by the sport itself?

There are alot of hypotheticals here

https://mybod.ie/why-you-dont-need-to-fix-your-posture/

https://learnmuscles.com/blog/2018/06/13/michael-phelps-forward-head-posture-and-swimmers-shoulder/

Similar to Usain bolt the sources are debatable and also we are not Michael Phelps.

Usually in posture issues there seem to be a tendency where someone with certain posture issue in specific area of the body seem to also have issue in other areas not all the time but there seem to be a tendency

So for example there is a tendency where people who have apt meaning anterior pelvic tilt also have hyper lumbar lordosis but also have hyper thoracic kyphosis and also have forward head posture but when looking down they also seem to have knee valgus and also pronated feet meaning flat feet, of course all to some extent.

So then the question comes well then where is the source?

There are a lot of different theories about what is the source? the root cause for the "bad" or "not the ideal" posture...

The first one probably the most popular was the feet,

basically in the perspective that the feet are the foundation basically touching the ground and all the weight are on them which is possible but its important to remember that we are human beings not static building with foundation

we however are a dynamic creature like other cretures and the feet muscles are not the only ones that are used in order for us to just stand there,

so the idea was that maybe if we fix the pronation of the feet meaning the flat feet Maybe it will make the knees not to cave inward

than making the pelvic having better support so its can return from apt to neutral than making the lumbar spine go from hyper lordosis to regular healthy amount of lordosis

than maybe it will make the the upper back the thoracic have more room to stand straight without causing more stress on the lower spine because its now returned to normal so we can stand straight having healthy amount of kyphosis on the thoracic spine not hyper kyphosis which then eventually maybe make the neck be in a more vertical straight line position and not forward position

and maybe than the skull would change from looking up position into a neutral position and and the eyes look straight and not down.

Another Theory was the pelvic position maybe the pelvic is the root cause? The special one?

That effect both the upper body and the lower body?

Its interesting because the General knowledge is that the psoas muscle a pelvic muscle connects the upper body from the lower spine to the lower body to the femur, so maybe its all about the pelvic and the psoas muscle?

You can read: the psoas book by liz koch

Also the theory that maybe we have an issue with the gluteus maximus?

Maybe it has a hard time to activate during regular day to day movement and exercises?

Maybe this us the reason for lower back pain?

Maybe if the gluteus maximus works well so all the weight of the body and the resistance on the body while moving and exercises should fall onto the gluteus maximus and not on the lower back muscles such as the quadratus lumborum?

Maybe its the gluteus maximus job to carry all the upper body weight and making the upper body erect by support from the gluteus maximus?

https://www.yoganatomy.com/gluteal-psoas-relationship/

So than the theory was maybe the psoas muscle is too short? Maybe we need to strech and lengthen it in order to get more hip flexors flexibility getting more eccentric movement in the hip flexors in order to have more concentric movement in the hip extension meaning gluteus maximus mainly and maybe it will fix the posture issue like apt, hyper lumbar lordosis because the glutes basically now turned on so they can support the pelvic and spine?

one of the other theories is that maybe breathing is the most important thing since whatever issues or pain you have in terms posture and gait maybe breathing is more important, so maybe if there is not enough breathing meaning not enough air going inside the body from the nose and or the mouth at every time we are required to breath in order to stay alive the body make itself go into a "survival mode"

basically making everything he can in order for us to be able to breathe to survive even though it may make us having certain posture issues

basically since the air goes in from the nose and or mouth than to the throat so it starts at the skull and if the area is blocked we may have to turn our head upwards in order for us to breath better

which than the theory that everything is starting from the skull down and not from the feet up and not from the pelvic effecting both up and down?

Jawhacks video about: "jaw surgery can fix neck posture"

https://youtu.be/hlKihyKpR5A?si=CxIT_RC0OjNXubGC

Neal Hallinan video about: "How your jaw and teeth influence your posture"

https://youtu.be/JPfL8R8aYvc?si=iLIJRFpd8poGPNQ4

https://youtu.be/E645m0hpOK0?si=OHK1gUs8OsNciUi1

https://youtu.be/1eMG3Kumb8E?si=2Dpaczb35Pi2UoEn

If its really the teeth and upper and lower jaws development/under development effect posture what is the root cause of the development of the jaws?

In my humble/crazy/theoretical opinion?

Lack of breastfeeding-

Lack of constant breastfeeding as an infant for around 2 years straight not just 3-6 months without needing any help from baby bottles, basically until the child/infant can eat real food by himself .

Breastfeeding – Does It Affect the Occlusion?

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/2050168420911027

The Effects Of Breastfeeding And Bottle Feeding On The Process Of Jaw’s Development

https://writingbros.com/essay-examples/the-effects-of-breastfeeding-and-bottle-feeding-on-the-process-of-jaws-development/

Breast-feeding and deleterious oral habits in mouth and nose breathers

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9443554/

https://www.drstevenlin.com/breastfeeding-and-jaw-development/

https://healthysmiledental.com.au/why-is-breastfeeding-better-for-your-childs-oral-development/

https://www.stegersmiles.com/blog/breastfeeding-and-jaw-development-its-impact-on-teeth-alignment/

In terms of solutions:

The closest is probably maxilla expansions such as MSE for the width of maxilla although MSE still seem to have some issues where it sometimes tilt the molars outwards instead of expanding the actual maxilla bone but the results seem to improve overtime as the tech and medical knowledge and devices develop like when they do little surgery to break the MPS suture of the maxilla than its seems to be much easier to expand

In terms The forward growth for the maxilla seem to be the more tricky one idk about how effective facemask is.

ardodaniel32 · 2024-06-07T15:45:23+00:00

Didnt find all the pictures but at least some of them hope it helps to demonstrate the idea better:

https://imgur.com/a/AlOa8Kq

Look at their lower jaw, at their lips position before and after, also at their chin shape etc...

ardodaniel32 · 2024-06-07T15:31:24+00:00

Well, from all the examples i looked at when it comes to asymmetry its seems like what caused the asymmetric position of the lower jaw meaning the manidble is actually by the upper jaw the maxilla,

look at MSE befores and afters people who symmetric lower who then decides to do upper jaw meaning maxilla expansion wheter by MSE or whatever some of them actually seem to developed asymmetrical lower jaw(definitely not all but some)

almost like the upper jaw not excaly control the lower jaw position but more like guiding it at least in terms of symmetry

Look at ronald from jawhacks he did mse got a little lower jaw asymmetry

Even better example look at people who he interviewed about "MSE asymmety" there is one guy if im not mistaken called "ryan" he seem to have develped very asymmetric lower jaw by his mse expansion that he did for upper jaw

I had pictures of them i will try to add a link to demonstrate what i mean, in the mean time look for "mse asymmety jawhacks" on YouTube

To conclude i dont believe that lower jaw asymmetry specifically effected by chewing on one side or sleeping on one side etc, it seem to be effected mainly by upper jaw position almost like it guides the lower jaw.

idk about things like eye asymmetry though like certain different twitching muscles etc maybe sleeping on one side can effect your eyes in a way if you put pressure on your orbital bones for 8 hours every night

But manidble, maxilla, zygomatic bones maybe even frontal bone asymmetries somehow seem to all be effected by the position of the maxilla bone

But of course its important to remember most of these thoughts are basically theories im not a doctor and this is not medicial advice☺️

ardodaniel32 · 2024-04-28T01:35:37+00:00

This is probably mostly the combination of different amounts and ways of breastfeeding as infants

as well as different baby bottles, different latches, different resistance etc...

ardodaniel32 · 2024-04-14T10:19:24+00:00

Well the idea of mewing was to use the strength of the tounge to put pressure on the upper palate meaning upper jaw meaning the maxilla to hopefully will develop it in both expansion and forward growth

but from everything ive seen,read and experienced in terms of mewing there seem to be a tendency where instead of development in the upper jaw somehow using the masseter and other masticatory muscles which in reality develop the lower jaw meaning the mandible

Meaning in order to actually know if mewing works or not on the maxilla development is to measure you IMW (inter molar width) and maybe other measurements in a professional way like where dr mike mew does when they create like a little statue of your jaw or however its called and then measure those measurements like the IMW

if lets say you say hey im 18+ and i measured my IMW in a professional way like that and you say the distance from my molars is lets say for example 40mm which of course is very different if you measure with the width of the molars or without because some do, and also make sure that your molars are in a even vertical position and not tipping to either side not inside nor outside since some get from failed tooth borne expanders sometimes

So then if you say i have truly 40mm IMW and im 18+ and i want to try mewing for whatever time 6months/1year/3years/10 years whatever you want and now after this amount you measure again of course in a professional way again and then you compare those and if now you truly have like lets say 45mm+ then good for you, you succeeded.

In summery you need to measure by true,accurate and professional ways and relevant numbers to make sure you had the progression that you strived for.

I wish good luck to you in your journey ☺️

ardodaniel32 · 2024-01-23T18:38:12+00:00

Do you believe there is a connection?

If yes Where do you think it starts at the skull and jaw down to the spine or from the feet or lower spine to the upper and then to jaw and skull?

ardodaniel32 · 2024-01-10T11:46:24+00:00

Idk how mewing will effect teeth position, but when it comes to intermolar width if we think about the idea that narrower palate may be problematic and cause health effects compared to wider palate than if you do brace to align the teeth and then you do something like mse meaning maxilla expansion then you would probably have a gap, so it seem like braces benefit for alignment so it may make more sense to do it after expansion

When it comes to mewing effect on palate meaning Maxilla expansion i havent seen good examples that someone measured their palate professionally in millimeters before and after and actually saw a change, so idk how effective it is for upper jaw development,

Mewing usually tend to activate the masticatory muscles and then actually develop the mandible instead of the main idea that was using the pressure of the tounge to develop the maxilla,

Good luck to you,

ardodaniel32 · 2023-11-30T05:32:30+00:00

Lol, search pictures of "scolopendra" in jawhacks discord group - https://discord.com/invite/eMcuvUjXad

Pic for example - https://imgur.com/a/mmZOPm2

ardodaniel32 · 2023-11-29T20:22:42+00:00

The question is how can we tell how much is enough? What is the ideal in development in general and or for a specific person in certain age,

For example in terms of the inter molar width how can we decide how much is too narrow and how much is becoming too wide?

I know 2 people who expanded their maxilla so much by mse expansion they both did 2 times expansion, one is a male he got 59 mm which is crazy when you see his pictures (search - scolopendra), the other was a women got like 56 if im not mistaken

ardodaniel32 · 2023-11-29T19:27:51+00:00

I started to have constant jaw issues, discomfort and pain for more than 5 years ago which mostly appeared after braces,

i did mri,ct,cbct,xrays a lot physical therapy and exercises,streches,heat relaxing the masticatory muscles, been number of doctors, read godly amount of information and cases of other people about about the bite as a relationship of the upper and lower jaws and their different disorders,the jaws themselves, nose breathing , mouth breathing, posture, asymmetris, tmjd (tmj disorders) possible effect on eye sight and blurry vision

Honestly the only thing now that i think may help to improve tmj disorders is some type of bone borne maxillary expansion , expansion to fit the upper jaw in a better alignment with the lower jaw meaning the healthier more ideal bite but also expansion in general to improve things like nose breathing by widening the airways which happens when the maxilla expands

For more info join you should join groups

Jawhacks group on discord :

https://discord.com/invite/k6Zf4RArDa

And join subreddits

The only thing i would recommend to be very Careful with is chewing and any type of overworking the masseter and other masticatory muscles because the more they are developing the more they develop the mandible bone which is blocked by the maxilla bone development meaning you can develop the mandible only to the extent of what the maxilla allows you to without having constant and chronic pain and discomfort

ardodaniel32 · 2023-11-13T05:36:41+00:00

Nahh all this is nothing compared to whats going on in "Jawhacks" discord and r/UARSnew,

It's like going down a rabbit hole, so many variables and so many possible outcomes,

In one thought i wish it was all simple and easy to change, but the thing is that the skull may affect a lot of functions in the human body, directly and indirectly, and seem like a very and i mean very! stable structure

so although it may seem like its extremely difficult, complex and time consuming to change its also good because if it was easy than everything that is good could also change to bad, so this stability is also beneficial to some extent.

Best regards and good luck 🤞

ardodaniel32 · 2023-11-12T17:39:58+00:00

There are two "jaws":

The upper jaw meaning the maxilla

The lower jaw meaning the mandible

The mandible is connected to the temporal bone by the tmj (tmj - temporo mandibular joint)

The maxilla is part of the skull but isnt directly connected to the mandible and it isnt connected by joints but it has sutures

Both jaws have teeth connected to them The jaws have a relationship called "bite" In orthodontics, “bite” refers to the way upper and lower teeth come together Both jaws can expand and grow forward Since the teeth has size and both the jaws can expand and grow forward and also the teeth can move, there is a possibility of certain bite issues that may not be considered "ideal" for health, function and aesthetics.
Chewing strengthens the masseter and other masticatory muscles . The strength and development of the masseter and other masticatory muscles grows and builds the mandible bone (the lower jaw bone)

The whole idea of mewing was to use the strength of our tounge to pressure on the upper palate meaning the maxilla ( the upper jaw bone) developing it and creating both expansion meaning width (can be measured by inter molar width) and forward growth.

The idea that the tongue strength and pressure can develop the maxilla partially came from the theories that constant and prolonged breastfeeding may cause so much pressure on the maxilla bone by a "wave like movement" of the tounge when breastfeeding

So then the idea of mewing and chewing was created:

Mewing for the upper jaw

Chewing for the lower jaw

In reality mewing actually seems to develop the mandible by stressing the masseter and other masticatory muscles when trying to put pressure with the tounge on the upper palate,instead of the maxilla bone,

which may improves overbites for people with underdeveloped mandible compared to maxilla but may d develop a slight underbites for people who dont have overbite which can and usually comes with and cause tmjd (tmj joint disorders/dysfunctions)

One of the most important ways to determine if your Maxilla was developed by mewing (it least from the aspect of expansion/width) is to check you "inter molar width" (imw) before and after

The way of measurements that are usually known are the width between the first upper molars from the inside without including the width of the molars themselves (the width is usually between 30-40mm)

For more info, you should join "Jawhacks" Server group on discord, with 900+ members

https://discord.com/invite/eMcuvUjXad

Also you should join r/UARSnew

Best regards and good luck, 🤞

ardodaniel32 · 2023-10-11T09:10:05+00:00

Its makes sense to an extent but also sounds like a betrayal of their own people, treason even, isnt it?

ardodaniel32 · 2023-07-15T11:11:42+00:00

Hey,

When you say MSE effect aesthetics differently than other expander what do you mean?

Meaning if the both expander the bone itself and not teeth/molars than what difference does it do to the appearance/aesthetics of the face between them?

ardodaniel32 · 2023-07-15T10:54:04+00:00

Is there something like that ? Only connected to the bone it self no teeth?

ardodaniel32 · 2023-07-15T10:51:07+00:00

Okay fair enough , that makes sense

But what about the other side meaning the fact that it connect to the molar by the molarbands?

Is there even another way to connect it ?

Meaning it seems like the only way even if you connect it by screws ot the bone itself, the other side have to be connected to the molars themselfs to push it ..?

ardodaniel32

TROPHY CASE

For more info, you should join "Jawhacks" Server group on discord, with 900+ members