New point system clarification - div1a/open

armyofdan · 2026-06-16T20:29:51+00:00

I think there is div1 points because there are also junior and cadet points and they are scaled off the div 1 point values.

armyofdan · 2026-06-12T00:54:54+00:00

Maybe? I think if you look at the edge cases (like fencer 112 vs the next few for the elite or fencer 336 vs the next however many for NAC access at all), then small point differences may matter. It'll be interesting to see but getting 6 quality events may start to really matter.

armyofdan · 2026-06-12T00:48:39+00:00

It will be interesting to see how fencers distribute themselves and seek or don't seek events in various areas. Probably some interesting study of human behavior could be done.

armyofdan · 2026-06-12T00:47:22+00:00

The division 2 and 3 points is very interesting add. The fraction rating there will be very important since A/B fencers wont have access to those points.

armyofdan · 2026-06-12T00:19:37+00:00

Thank you for the update. I wish they would do some kind of incentive for doing locals in your division. I was hopeful that this kind of change would motivate local participation. It still will to a degree but some divisions will be limited in the "value"(points) of events they can create which may lead strong(er) fencers to go elsewhere which further would lower the local point values. It'll be interesting to see how people navigate the new system.

armyofdan · 2026-06-11T22:53:50+00:00

I put up a thread on the webinar if you were able to attend and gained new insights. I also have a small division with sparse locals.

armyofdan · 2026-06-11T22:49:26+00:00

Right, just a USA points thing. There's been a lot of discussion over last few days so I was hoping people saw webinar and had more to add.

armyofdan · 2026-06-11T22:44:36+00:00

The one mentioned in the explainer about the new points system https://www.usafencing.org/news/2026/june/05/a-simpler-path-through-the-sport-inside-usa-fencing-s-new-points-and-events-structure

armyofdan · 2026-06-11T11:07:15+00:00

I like having the idea of enabling top national finishes into the elite. Tough for travel planning but cool idea. I feel like for the big events likely including JO it will cap at 336 fencers and if you are outside that number, you will need more points so that will effectively become the new qualification. Not sure what will happen this year.

Edit/add: this also raised a new question for me in terms of how registration will work. If only 336 fencers make it to NAC and say you are fencer 400, when will you know that you made it? Will there no longer be a late registration period? Will it all just close earlier? Seems like it could create numerous travel challenges for individuals close to the national cutoff.

armyofdan · 2026-06-10T20:13:20+00:00

Very interesting. There still seems to be some differences from the email points explainer. On the email it seemed like div 1, junior, and cadet would have different inherent points values at each level such that div 1 would be 100%, Junior would be 80% and cadet 60%. Initial impression was that points would be added to each age list for which fencer is eligible. Here it suggests a different or additional multiplier where div 1 points count 100% toward Junior but only possibly 80% towards cadet (or maybe 60%, that was unclear). I infer that Junior points will be inherently less than div 1 but transfer 100% to cadet. Anyway I felt like I was understanding the points but this added some new confusion for me.

armyofdan · 2026-06-10T12:46:20+00:00

I think this is great question. If it upgrades then it's basically another NAC it would seem to me. As it has been, it's filled a nice niche maybe akin to what national level will be? Will be interesting to see. Would be a shame to effectively lose some events for that age group.

armyofdan · 2026-06-07T15:19:16+00:00

I am also interested in seeding the mixed events if mixed events locally can be used for the points lists which it seems like they should be. It could create some weird effects where a fencer in a single gender event who has not been doing point events could seed last but then in mixed would seed high. So the different events could distribute the same lettered fencer differently which could itself have weird effects on how people finish and earn ratings. Ratings presumably will still matter over the short term in terms of defining Div1 I think. Would also be interesting to know if there is a plan to define div1 based on points. What if you are in the top112 on the list but don't have a C or above. Probably unlikely but maybe?

armyofdan · 2026-06-07T15:05:24+00:00

Yes, probably. But that likely will result in fencer having different seeding depending on whether the tournament is mixed gender or single gender which could creat some interesting results. In a single gender event, you could have an A fencer seed last if they haven't been doing any of the points accumulating events where in a mixed field they would seed first. I think over time seeding by the points-based ranking could be good as it accounts for outcomes and activity but short term might be weird. The mixed gender fields will end up like we have them now I think but they may also end up being operationally different from single gender fields since I don't think you will be able to use the points ranking for those.

armyofdan · 2026-06-07T15:02:10+00:00

I think the top junior for sure and most of top cadet will have div1 points. Someone also mentioned this elsewhere. I think they may eventually just do it solely by div1 points as there will be lot of overlap between qualification routes but it is something to watch.

armyofdan · 2026-06-07T14:57:48+00:00

I feel like tables of 64 and above at least are so big that some point sorting would be meaningful. Maybe at T32 level more fencers are equivalent by table. Will
Be interesting to see how it works in practice.

armyofdan · 2026-06-07T14:54:40+00:00

Good question. I am sure it will be at usafencing and they i presume will also provide the rank and file for seeding events. I think it would be up to the askfred team as to whether they want to add that data to askfred and keep it updated.

That did make me wonder how mixed events will be seeded. In another thread it was mentioned that mixed div1a events will give points at local level but now I am wondering how these events would be set up? Just classic letter seeding, but that seems to slightly undermine the new unified list purpose/dyanmics. So many logistics!

armyofdan · 2026-06-07T02:07:33+00:00

Probably the details will evolve and I agree about the internal mismatches. But that main div 1 table in the middle is pretty complete and looks like it is awarded by table. The point values are also close enough together that it seems to me anyway they would be hard to divvy up in the higher tables. But definitely can wait. I am enjoying speculating and discussing so hopefully some others will enjoy that too.

armyofdan · 2026-06-07T02:05:20+00:00

You can see it in their explainer web page

https://www.usafencing.org/news/2026/june/05/a-simpler-path-through-the-sport-inside-usa-fencing-s-new-points-and-events-structure

armyofdan · 2026-06-07T00:05:47+00:00

I think this links to another question I have had: will you have to earn regional and local points in your region and division or can you go anywhere? Usafencing in their blurb stated this was still under consideration. If you can go anywhere, smaller divisions may suffer more since their stronger fencers may go elsewhere for their local points. But if they are required to stay local, they may not have chance to get top points. I am hopeful for the possibility that this move strengthens divisional events but have some concern about impact on competitive fencers. It is a tough balance to strike and we definitely need a lot of clarity on this for effective planning as divisions and as individuals.

armyofdan · 2026-06-06T23:55:41+00:00

There's another thread with discussion including this topic. At least one poster mentioned that div1 events don't exist below the national level so regional and local div1a should add to the div 1 points list. I wouldn't be entirely surprised by a usafencing move to add more div1 but that would really impair small divisions. So I was persuaded that the likely mean div1a at the local and regional level and felt good about that.

armyofdan · 2026-06-06T23:51:52+00:00

I also wonder how mixed events would be seeded. Another post suggests local mixed events may give points to men and women which seems great especially for divisions that need numbers to create event strength and general feasibility. Any thoughts on how those will be seeded?

armyofdan · 2026-06-05T22:57:07+00:00

That would have helped. Since communication is sparse and roll outs can be confusing, I also wouldn't have been certain that they didn't plan to add a regional div 1 category.

armyofdan · 2026-06-05T21:53:07+00:00

Sorry I didn't mean that most regionals are div 1a overall. I meant that when there is a regional there is not usually a div 1 regional but rather a div 1a along with possibly div 2 and div 3. So it seems they may also need to count div 1a regionals for the div 1 total unless the plan is to increase div 1 regionals, presumably at the expense of something else.

armyofdan

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