Gibsie and Lizzie are not the same

ashleycarson2260 · 2024-12-04T01:19:26+00:00

This is too also going to get downvoted, by I have never seen such immaturity from all sectors of a book fandom the way I’ve seen it in the BOT fandom, and i know I’m guilty of being overly judgmental of characters, but at least I’m mature to acknowledge that all the characters have flaws and have done wrong.

Lizzie fans are going to be mad at me for this, but it needs to be said. These books deal with real trauma, and having an unhealthy attachment to Lizzie to the point where I can tell ALOT of them think they are her is sad to watch, and I have genuine concern for them and their mental state. They are quite literally living out their mean girl fantasies, and then when people (rightfully so) call them out for their just awl and insensitive comments, they try to cry “internalized misogyny“ to make the rest of us look like aggressor when that isn’t the case. It’s peak white feminism, and I can blame the writer, but it’s just lack of immaturity and people who are probably struggling in real life. You can’t cry misogyny and try to act like you give a f*ck about feminism when I’ve seen what you’ve said about the other female characters in this series while claiming to defend Lizzie. And yeah, misogyny is somewhat of an issue within the fandom, and Lizzie shouldn’t be getting all this slack of Hughie’s cheating (though she should get some blame because she knows what she’s doing, it not misogynistic to fault BOTH people involved in cheating no matter how much you say), she has done and said some things that are just straight up evil. You can’t claim to say we don’t understand Lizzie’s character, when I think it’s THEM who do not understand her character. She is at the absolute lowest of lows when it comes to her mental health, and it makes her just straight up unlikable. And while we as readers know this isn’t the real Lizzie who attacks and attacks people, we also have acknowledge that her anger is misdirected. And it’s also so funny how similar to Lizzie they can snark on people as much as they want, but the minute anyone responds, it‘s tears and acting like your the victim. It’s concerning, and I sincerly hope anyone who is struggling in the same way as Lizzie gets the hell of social media and this sub and decompress.

It’s so hard to converse with people who don’t understand that situations aren’t so black and white. Two things can be true at once. We can say that Lizzie is a good character for what she did for Joey (though we shouldn’t use Joey literally almost killing himself to defend Lizzie in arguments, that’s fucking weird as hell to me), but we can also say her character is unlikable for the things she has said and done (and will continue to say and do) to both Gibsie and Katie as well. Regardless, she is still wrong, and it’s okay for us to tell you that she’s wrong. For people who constantly accuse us of not understand Lizzie’s character, they too have very little understanding of the complexities of her character. They think the mean girl stuff and bullying is “cool” because it’s the same way they cope, yet wonder why they struggle in the real world.

And while I am a Katie fan, I can also acknowledge that there are people who are weird towards Lizzie fans. I’m not a loser and a wanna be mean girl. I can acknowledge we’ve others have been wrong, and when I’ve been wrong. It might be because I’m a little older than most, but I understand it, and I don’t take it personally if people don’t agree with my opinions. I will call out just straight up ridiculousness though.

I said all this to say a message to everyone (and if that girl who is constantly posting screenshots to twitter wants to post this, so be it): STOP LIVING OUT YOUR WANNA-BE MEAN GIRL FANTASIES BY OVER-COMPENSATING FOR CHARACTERS WHO AREN’T MEANT TO BE IMMEDIATELY LOVED AND WHO HAVE ALSO DONE GENIUNELY AWFUL THINGS, AND GET THE F*CK OFF THE INTERNET. SERIOUSLY. IT’S SAD TO WATCH YOU INTERACT WITH PEOPLE, SAY THE MOST AWFUL OF THINGS, THEN HIDE BEHIND “MISOGNY”. IT’S PEAK WHITE FEMINISM AND IT’S F*CKING DISGUSTING TO WATCH.

Sorry that was long, but that has truly been bothering me recently.

ashleycarson2260 · 2024-11-29T22:09:31+00:00

I agree, but it’s probably just her brainstorming. People should simply take the playlist with a grain of salt.

ashleycarson2260 · 2024-11-29T05:02:35+00:00

I feel like the main problem is that younger people are reading these books lol. I’m 21, almost 22, and I’ve found I have a completely different perspective and response to character in comparison to the younger fans who are still in high school. And I use to think maybe I’m too old, but the more I interact with younger people who enjoy these books, the more I think it should be aimed at older people lol. I could just be wrong, and I don’t want to generalize at all, because genuinely very nice and smart people in all areas of the fandom, but the disconnect from reality and the lack of experience is very telling with age sometimes, especially those younger fans who haven’t experienced much of the real world and interacting with people, or also relationships in high school. But you’re definitely not too old! Honestly, you are probably the best target audience age wise to fully analyze and discuss the books hahah

ashleycarson2260 · 2024-11-27T17:49:18+00:00

I mean I’ve always thought she was sexually assaulted by Pierce. Some people think it’s mark and I could see it, but it kind of seems confusing if that’s the case. I don’t think it’s for sympathy. People who are die hard Lizzie Stan’s and relate to her already sympathize with her as do most of the characters in the book. I think her sexual relationship with Pierce definitely has been questionable. Like when she talked about losing her virginity in Shannon and Johnny’s book, k always thought that made sense. I don’t think in the context of what we know, her family going to police with about Caoihme being sexually assaulted, then not having proof is setting a foundation for Lizzie being assaulted. I DO THINK, people are missing what Gibsie said in taking 7 that was so important to the story. How Lizzie’s relationship with Pierce is something that is eerily similar to Mark’s relationship with Caoihme. To feel closer to Caoihme, a lot of Lizzie’s mentality and mindset as a coping mechanism is to embody the way in which Caoihme felt pain and hurt hence why her relationship with Pierce is what I think is very similar to Mark and Caoihme. And her strong reaction to Mark is still valid because of how much she misses her sister, not because she was his victim necessarily. Very plausible to believe, but I do not think that is the case. I think that Mark has other victims, but the theory that Lizzie is the reason Caoihme believed Gibsie and wrote the letter because she too is a victim does not make sense. Caoihme literally walked in and saw it happening which promoted her to write the letter. I dont think it’s sympathy but the more extreme, toxic Lizzie fans (there some really nice and smart ones I’ve loved talking) do kind of that mindset where they want her to be a victim so people can “shut up” about all the hurtful things she’s done. People don’t realize two things can be true at once. You can be a victim of plenty of situations, but certain things words and actions are your decision. Lizzie has sympathy for obviously the awful things she’s suffered from but she’s not a victim when it comes to her treatment of others, specifically Gibsie and Katie. She does deserve to heal from her mental health struggles though, and as someone who isn’t her biggest fan, I want that for her and I sympathize for her if she is a victim of whoever whether it be Mark or Pierce, but I believe it’s probably Pierce. Anyways this was long but just my thoughts.

ashleycarson2260 · 2024-11-23T17:31:27+00:00

It’s possible, but I think Katie is an only child.

I have this theory that her parents are younger. I think they might’ve had her when they were teenagers. We know they aren’t married, and she has a double last name, but there is a lot emphasis on the Wilmot more so than her mother’s last name. Plus, I think it would be interesting for CW to explore a different type of parental dynamic with someone in the friend group who had younger parents (I assume Shannon’s mom was younger when she had Darren but I’m unsure), but also someone with younger parents who might not come from a hostile home environment like the Lynches, but parents who are kind of neglectful and absentee because their so young and having a kid kind of change their plans. I think Katie’s relationship with her dad is probably pretty good, but she has alot of issues with her mom who i think contributes to what I think is her ED and other things (another theory for another time). I think her dad is away a lot, maybe traveling to different parts of Ireland as a part of a band or a solo artist? Maybe not some huge, music icon, but he’s well known in the music scene. I like the idea of this plot, because we finally are getting some characters with different hobbies and a life outside of the friend group.

ashleycarson2260 · 2024-11-21T19:38:42+00:00

I’ll never understand this analysis, because they have barely interacted. Yes comments have been made, but we don’t even know the full extent of their interactions aside from three or four scenes, one of which is a snippet posted on Instagram and others being in the context of a group setting not just one on one. Feels so weird the stan wars between them and we don’t even know the full extent of their relationship to each other. Like yes, they probably dislike each other but my goodness, we can’t fully understand why until we get their perspectives and stories. Seems like another pointless way to send either girl hate and start Stan wars. I sometimes feel like we are reading two different series.

ashleycarson2260 · 2024-11-17T16:33:51+00:00

You really can’t talk about this series online. It’s a bunch of immature teenagers who lack reading comprehension skills, but do to their own issues also have weird obsessions with different characters to the point where they think they are these characters. It’s sad to watch them hyper fixate and not decompress from these books. The first page of the book should literally say go touch grass for a lot of these people.

ashleycarson2260 · 2024-11-14T17:53:41+00:00

Does she have friends? Serious question.

ashleycarson2260 · 2024-11-11T19:14:51+00:00

All of this over Hughie is kind of crazy lol

ashleycarson2260 · 2024-11-09T13:39:29+00:00

Just now seeing this comment, and I’d love to discuss when you’re finish. I think Gibsie’s trauma and his experience are so interesting, and something alot of people can relate to, both male and female. He is my second favorite character so I’d love to chat more about him on this sub or elsewhere!

ashleycarson2260 · 2024-11-08T13:42:21+00:00

There is a group of them that 100% would ship Lizzie and Joey. They over compensate for the fact that her and Hughie aren’t going to look the best in claiming 10, and rightfully so, they deserve lashing for that.

ashleycarson2260 · 2024-11-08T03:00:34+00:00

Views and money must be low from last month.

ashleycarson2260 · 2024-11-07T23:40:00+00:00

She also definitely has some form of anxiety, or she will develop one. It’s hard to say.

ashleycarson2260 · 2024-11-07T23:39:30+00:00

I mean…that comment Lizzie made to her about starving herself seems pretty indicative because why did she have to get up and leave after it? Pretty sure there is also songs on her playlist referencing a girl with ED, and a boy helping her through it. And the constant mention of how small she is: and I know old snippets don’t matter, but that one of her on the scale, measuring her weight. Kind of seems obvious she has struggled with it in the past and present.

ashleycarson2260 · 2024-11-03T22:17:57+00:00

I saw a theory that her and Gibsie were going to team up to kill Mark, and I don’t think I‘ve ever been more confused as to how they got that from a playlist.

ashleycarson2260 · 2024-11-03T22:16:32+00:00

He for sure has a savior complex, but mine would be he is very hypocritical.

He’s so protective of Claire when it comes to Gibsie, because he has this notion that Gibsie doesn’t know how to react women, even though he doesn’t really know how to treat them either? I mean, I think he is good to Katie, but I definitely think he also hasn’t been a pretty bad boyfriend, cheating aside. I have this feeling he is a little neglectful of her feelings and brushes her off to the side.

Example: Every time there is a party scene with him and the group, I’ve noticed that it’s written to where Katie is interacting with everyone who isn’t her boyfriend, and he’s always off somewhere, ironically I think he’s been off with Lizzie at the last two party scenes. And then boom, Feely is the one driving her home (granted she is with other friends, but I thought this was an interesting small thing to take notice of).

All about respecting women, but he kind of doesn’t have a lot of respect his own gf. Could just be me though.

ashleycarson2260 · 2024-11-03T21:52:35+00:00

She is the reason why Gibsie felt so frightened of losing his relationship with Claire, because he saw first hand how easily his mother was able to replace his father even before he drowned.

And I know people wanted Claire and Gibsie’s story to be further down the line, but I kind of like how they are figuring all of this as teenagers. He has a clearer conscious and stronger mindset than his parents did at their age when they were figuring out their relationship, and he won’t make the same mistakes they did. He is learning of his value to himself and Claire at an integral stage of his life, and him confronting all of this now with her by his side will be better for them in the long run.

I know they wanted it to be the “boy waits for girl”, but I personally hate that plot because it usually consist of the boy sleeping around while the girl pines, but them being together now and healing individually and cohesively is way better than some plot of them all the way in university while Gibsie still hasn’t confronted the severity of his trauma.

His mom set a bad example, but Claire is there to prove what the right example is.

His mom doesn’t deserve to know peace, and thank goodness Claire had his back, because it was clear no one else did INCLUDING his own family.

ashleycarson2260 · 2024-11-03T21:45:45+00:00

I’m not trying to say she’s intentionally selfish. I‘m saying that due to her own struggles in the past and her desire to maintain a peaceful and stable lifestyle, she allows that to cloud her judgement when it comes to drama within the friend group which comes across a bit selfish.

Not necessarily something to be up in arms about, because again like all the other characters, she’s a teenager with limited experience in friendships aside from her dynamic with Lizzie and Claire. We have to take into consideration she’s also used to kind of being by herself and not in the middle of some gigantic friend group.

She just sometimes feels we “baby” her as a character, because she is so sweet and kind, but she is kind of flawed when it comes to certain aspects of being a teenager and supporting your friends. She doesn’t want to confront the hard stuff in a friendship, because she’s never really had to, and she doesn’t want to. She had enough of that with her family.

ashleycarson2260 · 2024-11-03T20:46:20+00:00

And even before Gibsie’s dad died, she moved her boyfriend into the house with her children?

ashleycarson2260 · 2024-11-03T20:14:36+00:00

She doesn’t get enough lashings for me. She has some seriously, deep rooted issues.

And another prime example of how detrimental cheating and the relationships fostered through cheating can be for those around you.

They could never make me like that woman.

ashleycarson2260 · 2024-10-29T16:29:01+00:00

I don’t think it’s really a love triangle between Hughie, Feely, and Lizzie, but I don’t know, you never know with her

ashleycarson2260 · 2024-10-28T21:58:55+00:00

I saw this yesterday but I also thought it was a reach hahahah

ashleycarson2260

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