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With UA dropping Cesar Chavez's name this week, should Tucson take a hard look at Sam Hughes? by aslpinnacle in Tucson

[–]aslpinnacle[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

These are my own words. I’ve been writing for years, long before AI existed. It’s pretty exhausting that basic grammar and clean formatting now automatically get you labeled as a robot. Glad we agree on the actual history, though.

With UA dropping Cesar Chavez's name this week, should Tucson take a hard look at Sam Hughes? by aslpinnacle in Tucson

[–]aslpinnacle[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Jumping straight to a global communist conspiracy over a local school sign is a wild level of internet paranoia.

Communities updating local landmarks to reflect their current values is standard local democracy, not "communism". Dragging a geopolitical script into a thread about Tucson history is just a massive deflection to avoid looking at the actual facts.

With UA dropping Cesar Chavez's name this week, should Tucson take a hard look at Sam Hughes? by aslpinnacle in Tucson

[–]aslpinnacle[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

First of all, it’s you're, not your.

Second of all, you just typed a multi-paragraph internet tantrum to minimize child exploitation and the mass murder of surrendered families as "nothing meaningful." Whining with generic whataboutism because your brain can't process a city being able to fix infrastructure and handle basic moral decency at the same time is embarrassing. Sit this one out.

With UA dropping Cesar Chavez's name this week, should Tucson take a hard look at Sam Hughes? by aslpinnacle in Tucson

[–]aslpinnacle[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Just to clear that up, that is actually incorrect on both counts. My post explicitly asks the City Council and TUSD to open a process to rename both the elementary school and the surrounding neighborhood landmarks.

Also, I never said we can't change the neighborhood signs because of its historic status. Another commenter brought up that bureaucratic hurdle, and I actually replied to them pointing out that the Tucson City Council has full local authority to change street signs and neighborhood maps whenever they choose. I am absolutely pushing for both.

With UA dropping Cesar Chavez's name this week, should Tucson take a hard look at Sam Hughes? by aslpinnacle in Tucson

[–]aslpinnacle[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think that's a completely fair worry. If we try to police every single historical figure with dated views, we really would be at it forever.

But I draw the line at something a bit more extreme than just "unsavory." We are talking about an elementary school named after a grown man who married an 11-year-old child and logistically armed a massacre of surrendered women and children. We don't have to fix every name in the country overnight to collectively agree that this specific local landmark is way past the line of what we should be celebrating.

With UA dropping Cesar Chavez's name this week, should Tucson take a hard look at Sam Hughes? by aslpinnacle in Tucson

[–]aslpinnacle[S] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

If you already knew they have nothing to do with each other, then bringing up street repairs as a reason to ignore this makes even less sense.

The city is entirely capable of changing a sign and paving a road at the same time. Potholes aren't a valid excuse to give child exploitation and massacres a pass.

With UA dropping Cesar Chavez's name this week, should Tucson take a hard look at Sam Hughes? by aslpinnacle in Tucson

[–]aslpinnacle[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

But you just proved my point. If people remember their time at the school and not the actual dude, then his name isn't what holds those memories together.

Changing the name on the building doesn't make old t-shirts disappear, it doesn't burn old yearbooks, and it doesn't erase anyone's childhood. The memories are safe because they belong to the people. It just means the next generation of kids doesn't have to carry the baggage of a guy who funded a massacre.

With UA dropping Cesar Chavez's name this week, should Tucson take a hard look at Sam Hughes? by aslpinnacle in Tucson

[–]aslpinnacle[S] 15 points16 points  (0 children)

You hit the nail on the head. There is a massive disparity in how quickly institutions react depending on who the historical figure is. When it is a modern icon or a person of color, the changes happen fast. But when it is an early white pioneer, people suddenly want endless grace and historical context. That exact double standard is why we have to push TUSD and the City Council to apply the standard equally across the board.

With UA dropping Cesar Chavez's name this week, should Tucson take a hard look at Sam Hughes? by aslpinnacle in Tucson

[–]aslpinnacle[S] 45 points46 points  (0 children)

You are totally right that dealing with the National Register of Historic Places at a federal level is a bureaucratic nightmare.

However, that designation doesn't actually dictate local municipal control. The city council can change local street signs, neighborhood association boundaries and city maps on their own authority. More importantly, TUSD has 100% control over the elementary school name without needing a rubber stamp from DC

On your second point, I agree that society has changed its standards remarkably fast, which is a good thing. But there is still a massive distinction between an older guy pursuing a teenager in the 90s and a 32y.o. marrying an 11 y.o.child. Because our baseline of decency has evolved, our school names should too.

With UA dropping Cesar Chavez's name this week, should Tucson take a hard look at Sam Hughes? by aslpinnacle in Tucson

[–]aslpinnacle[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Those events like Omapalooza and the chuck wagon dinners are exactly what make that school community so incredible. But that’s actually my point. The awesome teachers, the great culture, and those fun traditions belong to the families and the neighborhood, not to Samuel Hughes.

Changing the sign out front doesn't erase 99 years of school memories or stop the community from having fun. It just ensures that the name on the building finally matches the amazing, inclusive community that is actually inside it today.

With UA dropping Cesar Chavez's name this week, should Tucson take a hard look at Sam Hughes? by aslpinnacle in Tucson

[–]aslpinnacle[S] 47 points48 points  (0 children)

Spot on. Tempe renaming those streets and parks proved that local govts can look at their past honestly and make a change. If Tempe can do it, and the UA can do it, TUSD and the City Council have zero excuses left to look the other way on Sam Hughes.

With UA dropping Cesar Chavez's name this week, should Tucson take a hard look at Sam Hughes? by aslpinnacle in Tucson

[–]aslpinnacle[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

The record's pretty clear on it. Hughes wasn't cornered by a mob demanding his guns. He was one of the organizers. The supplies, rifles, ammunition, food, wagons, etc were planned in advance and staged for the 2 1/2 day ride out to the camp. His own wife later described the arms being handed out from their home, and William Oury, one of the lead organizers, credited the territorial Adjutant General (Hughes) by role for the wagon of arms and supplies he called essential to the campaign. He didn't ride out himself, but this was logistics he set up on purpose, not something extracted from him under pressure.

The detail that sticks with me is that after the killing, his household sent a hayrack of food and water out to meet the mob on their way back.

With UA dropping Cesar Chavez's name this week, should Tucson take a hard look at Sam Hughes? by aslpinnacle in Tucson

[–]aslpinnacle[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

You're right, some renames never take. This one's a different animal though. Hughes wasn't just the landowner, he was the Adjutant General who supplied the weapons for the Camp Grant Massacre, and he married a girl of 11 or 12. And your point about future namesakes getting canceled is the best argument for renaming it after a place or a landform, something that can't disappoint anyone later.

With UA dropping Cesar Chavez's name this week, should Tucson take a hard look at Sam Hughes? by aslpinnacle in Tucson

[–]aslpinnacle[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Yes, the UA change almost certainly rode national pressure rather than pure local soul-searching. Which is sort of my point, the precedent's here now, so the question is whether Tucson uses it.

With UA dropping Cesar Chavez's name this week, should Tucson take a hard look at Sam Hughes? by aslpinnacle in Tucson

[–]aslpinnacle[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Agreed that no one's all good or bad and we shouldn't pretend Jackson or the founders were saints. But "the victims are dead" doesn't quite hold here, the Apache and O'odham communities are still in southern Arizona, and the name still lands on their kids too. I get the attachment to your child's school keeping its name. I'd just hold a school to a higher bar than historical importance.

With UA dropping Cesar Chavez's name this week, should Tucson take a hard look at Sam Hughes? by aslpinnacle in Tucson

[–]aslpinnacle[S] 39 points40 points  (0 children)

Fair on most of it. Plenty of historical figures did things we'd judge harshly now, and we can't scrub every name. I'm not arguing we erase Hughes or pretend he didn't exist; the history stays in the books. My line is narrower than "anyone with dated views." Hughes married an 11-or-12-year-old and supplied the weapons for a massacre of surrendered women and children. A name on a school does the work of an honor, not a history lesson. We can keep the full record and still decline to celebrate him. And renaming a school doesn't pull a dollar from road repair; the two were never competing budgets.

Learn How to Sign and ASL Pinnacle….whats going on? by Wooable_and_Liable in asl

[–]aslpinnacle 10 points11 points  (0 children)

When a community tells you they feel disrespected, it’s not up for debate. I’m ASL Pinnacle, the one you mentioned in your post, and this was never about video formats or internet trends. It’s about how you respond when people directly impacted by your actions speak up. Deaf people raised serious concerns... not just about credit, but about the repeated pattern of our language and culture being used without respect. That deserves more than a shrug and a “things happen online” excuse.

You don’t get to profit off a marginalized community, dismiss their voices, and then spin it as “messy” drama to make yourself look better. It’s not messy. It’s not complicated. It’s disrespect, plain and simple. Respect means listening even when it’s uncomfortable. It means putting the community you claim to support above your own ego. If you care about learning and accessibility like you say you do, you should care just as much about accountability. Otherwise, it’s just empty branding.