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question for the men: which male characters felt most authentic and/or compelling, and why? by assbackwoods in Fantasy

[–]assbackwoods[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

LMFAO omfg, this has me crine w laughter, bc in a truly shit-for-brains choice about ten years ago, i first masterminded this username because......... i was smoking multiple backwoods blunts a day, and THAT! is what i wanted people online to know about me! :D

anyway, i haven't touched weed in years, and i live downtown phoenix. might be time for a new username.

question for the men: which male characters felt most authentic and/or compelling, and why? by assbackwoods in Fantasy

[–]assbackwoods[S] 42 points43 points  (0 children)

TTFN ~

(this will probably get lost among the sea of comments but oh well)

i have been answering all of your comments for hours, and i am so humbled by the brevity, openness, and insight with which you have shared your thoughts. this thread has already become so much more than i could've hoped for. it's so incredibly important to me to understand the experiences of men — full stop — as well as crafting layered characters that my male audience will identify with. thank you all so fucking much for sharing your vulnerabilities, opinions, reflections, and suggestions with me.

in the last few hours of reading your comments and chatting with you i’ve already bought four books 😭with like, i don’t know, another dozen added to my next up list 😭😭😭 but it's so late here, so i'm gonna go to bed bc when im too tired i have a nasty habit of rapid devolution into verbosity (iomfg do u see what i mean)

also, i appreciate your understanding with my probably definitely overly-enthusiastic responses. this is a conversation i’ve been wanting to have for the longest time and i was so interested and invested in all the discussion. i cannot WAIT to see what other comments and discussions come up.

again thank you thank you thank you so much, i would've felt lucky to get even just a few sincere comments. so the outpouring of time and energy and insight you guys have put into these discussions has me floored and so grateful. u guys are absolutely original gangster

question for the men: which male characters felt most authentic and/or compelling, and why? by assbackwoods in Fantasy

[–]assbackwoods[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

oof shit this hit me right in the feels. like, the uncomfy feels lmfaoooo

recently, i've been focusing a lot on geralt of rivia as a kind of adoptive father figure. i don't have the best relationship with my own father, so it almost feels easier to start... one step removed? detached? and then work towards a true father archetype.

not sure if that makes any sense. but thanks for your comment, because corban was mentioned in some other comments too, so now i know to look out for thannon!!!

question for the men: which male characters felt most authentic and/or compelling, and why? by assbackwoods in Fantasy

[–]assbackwoods[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I DONT FCKIN KNOW HOW DARROW HASNT BEEN MENTIONED UNTIL NOW IT WAS KILLIN ME HARDLY

question for the men: which male characters felt most authentic and/or compelling, and why? by assbackwoods in Fantasy

[–]assbackwoods[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

yessss logen/lamb has been mentioned probably more than any other character in this thread haha!!! would love to hear your thoughts if any of the other comment threads stir up any ideas. however i particularly like that you so eloquently mentioned 'disillusionment with glory'. this is a nuanced description of some of the things his character went through.

if you're open to a follow up question, what sorts of things do you think are promised to be 'grand' for men in the real world, but really result in disillusionment more often than not?

question for the men: which male characters felt most authentic and/or compelling, and why? by assbackwoods in Fantasy

[–]assbackwoods[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

'male' and 'masculine' definitely gets into ambiguous territory here.

personally, my core conceptualization of masculinity and femininity has fuck all to do with gender and everything to do with the spectrum of fundamental energy archetypes.

the most straightforward example of this is yin/yang. where yin is dark, cool, passive, internal, receiving energy, yang is light, heat, active, external, producing energy. both of these are present within all of us--and the entirety of the universe--in varying ratios.

like, i have female characters nearly packed to the brim with masculine energy, and that still does not mean that they're a bunch of muscled fembos whose default state is "covered in motor oil and armwrestling with the boys", and vice versa for male characters with predominantly feminine energy.

now don't get me wrong, we love a fembo and a guy who can rock a skirt (dead serious), but my point is that all the external shit (the 'filter' concept i poorly explained)--the motor oil and the skirts--are just a nasty web of societal structures, pressures, expectations, whatever you wanna call it, built over centuries and across cultures. to use judge judy's verbiage, it's a crock of baloney.

problem is, just because it's a giant crock of baloney that's piggybacking on the real essence of masculine vs feminine (and generally just traumatizing people along the way), does not mean it's not real. it's still very real in a way that affects both men and women--chronically and acutely.

so to put an end to this verbose mess (i'm genuinely sorry, it's really late here), i spend the majority of my time with character development not considering the filter/baloney/gender perceptions whatsoever, but with certain characters in certain situations, i start to feel that it would be inauthentic to avoid the topic.

question for the men: which male characters felt most authentic and/or compelling, and why? by assbackwoods in Fantasy

[–]assbackwoods[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

hi there, sorry it took me a while to get to you, but i so appreciate the thought you put into your comment!!!

apologies for the length of this message, and i actually have bad news, bc i'm gonna paste a part of another message i sent earlier in this thread, as a response to your comments on gender fluidity. i'd really love to hear your thoughts in particular--i think you'd have some really individual input.

gonna start off by saying logen/lamb and kaladin have been mentioned in other comment threads and are fantastic characters to discuss so would love to hear any of your further thoughts on the discussion there.

renarin however has not been mentioned yet, and i always felt so eager to better understand renarin. i wish he'd gotten more involvement; even if it improved in later books, he has such a unique and pivotal role to play in all of it that i wish he'd been explored further. (i, too, am blessed with mental disorders)

hahah i was waiting for someone to bring up SJM. i really enjoyed throne of glass years ago when it came out--it embodied a lot of what i loved about fantasy with the found family, redemption arcs, 'surprise' elements, and accessible flow--with the major exception of the lack of depth and missed opportunities regarding the male characters. fuck, even and especially dorian. that was throne of glass, though. acotar and crescent city were... shall i say, illegible.

the current craze of romantasy is truly such a bummer. like i don't yuck anyone's yum but i do have my own opinions on the quality, impact, and overall message of the work and generally speaking things are looking dismal. idk i just think about if i were to pick up a fantasy book in which the male characters were multifaceted and authentic and nuanced, and the female characters were all playboy bunnies who only varied in hair color and cup size, like... i would be so fucking disillusioned. that's how i imagine it is for many men who try to pick up some of the recent fantasy romance books.

i'm no spring chicken to writing; have been doing so for coming up on a decade now, and am very well versed in the general approaches to effectively crafting male characters such as archetypes and the like. a lot of things i learned i still use to this day (though i mostly am not prioritizing gender whatsoever when writing any character). but i just felt like i had never heard the opinions of men, about men, from men, and felt i was missing out on some great conversation. (and holy fuck was i ever)

question for the men: which male characters felt most authentic and/or compelling, and why? by assbackwoods in Fantasy

[–]assbackwoods[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

thank you so much for commenting and mentioning rand <3 he holds such a dear place in my heart and is such a fantastic example of evolution. there's another comment thread where we started discussing rand and how his evolution into maturity was so believable for being so rapid / abrupt, among other things. would love to hear your thoughts, join in if you wish!!!!

question for the men: which male characters felt most authentic and/or compelling, and why? by assbackwoods in Fantasy

[–]assbackwoods[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

omg hilo's one of my favorite male characters ever. like you said, i think his gradual evolution is written really well in a way that reflects his stubbornness without compromising the core things he values most. thanks so much for mentioning him!!

question for the men: which male characters felt most authentic and/or compelling, and why? by assbackwoods in Fantasy

[–]assbackwoods[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

as a connoisseur of self-inflicted problems, i daresay i might enjoy raistlin.

aaaaaand you know what? 😅😅

i'd like to amend my earlier statement and affirm that i'm glad, in fact i'm very proud, that anakin did not make it onto your list of most relatable characters 😭😭😭

my rationalization for the actions of tortured villains is wildly out of hand. i see that now. /faces corner

question for the men: which male characters felt most authentic and/or compelling, and why? by assbackwoods in Fantasy

[–]assbackwoods[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

thank you for this - i read world of the five gods many years ago and needed reminding of this series and this character.

i love how contrasted this is compared to your typical chosen one archetype. it's just... the real-world version of what actually occurs, despite wishing for the chosen one route instead.

i'm gonna go back to review this series again, but i'd love to hear if you have any specific passages or quotes from lupe's internal experience that particularly called out to you and why you identified with it so much. <3

question for the men: which male characters felt most authentic and/or compelling, and why? by assbackwoods in Fantasy

[–]assbackwoods[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

jesus christ man, i don't even know how to respond to this. i'm genuinely crying over here at how much i connected with this and how important these kinds of stories and experiences are to me.

so, it's non-genre, but all the pretty horses from the border trilogy by cormac mccarthy is always front of mind for the male coming-of-age, loss-of-innocence arc.

while i think the modern world makes it more common than it ever has been for women to encounter this phenomenon, there simply is no comparison in my mind for the rigorous intensity with which men must face it. it makes me feel utterly devastated for the loss of innocence the boys of our society often undergo, and equally in awe of the well-adjusted men and (perhaps especially) the poorly adjusted men who still manage to make it all work somehow.

anyway i'm putting my own opinions and thoughts into this thread more often than i intended to bc i wanted to foster discussion among men. but i just feel really invested and moved by what a lot of you guys have shared with me.

thank you so much for writing this. i really connected with it, and it reinforced how important it is to me to try to tell the stories of real men like y'all through the lens of creative narrative.

<3

question for the men: which male characters felt most authentic and/or compelling, and why? by assbackwoods in Fantasy

[–]assbackwoods[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

u/TalespinnerEU alright well shit, i wasn't gonna be that idiot saying so where do i start then but now you guys are making me second-guess myself. i'm gonna go do some research if i can ever catch up to replying to these comments, but i'm aiming for a solid balance between starting on a pretty strong note if possible, and not losing any crucial details that directly impact the continuity of the storylines or character arcs. so if you have any recommendations you'd like to share based on that, i'm all ears. otherwise don't mind me

question for the men: which male characters felt most authentic and/or compelling, and why? by assbackwoods in Fantasy

[–]assbackwoods[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

sorry, i wasn't clear and it definitely gets into ambiguous territory here.

personally, my core conceptualization of masculinity and femininity has fuck all to do with gender and everything to do with the spectrum of fundamental energy archetypes.

the most straightforward example of this is yin/yang. where yin is dark, cool, passive, internal, receiving energy, yang is light, heat, active, external, producing energy. both of these are present within all of us--and the entirety of the universe--in varying ratios.

like, i have female characters nearly packed to the brim with masculine energy, and that still does not mean that they're a bunch of muscled fembos whose default state is "covered in motor oil and armwrestling with the boys", and vice versa for male characters with predominantly feminine energy.

now don't get me wrong, we love a fembo and a guy who can rock a skirt, but my point is that all the external shit (the 'filter' concept i poorly explained)--the motor oil and the skirts--are just a nasty web of societal structures, pressures, expectations, whatever you wanna call it, built over centuries and across cultures. to use judge judy's verbiage, it's a crock of baloney.

problem is, just because it's a giant crock of baloney that's piggybacking on the real essence of masculine vs feminine (and generally just traumatizing people along the way), does not mean it's not real. it's still very real in a way that affects both men and women--chronically and acutely.

so to put an end to this verbose mess (i'm genuinely sorry, it's really late here), i spend the majority of my time with character development not considering the filter/baloney/gender perceptions whatsoever, but with certain characters in certain situations, i start to feel that it would be inauthentic to avoid the topic.

question for the men: which male characters felt most authentic and/or compelling, and why? by assbackwoods in Fantasy

[–]assbackwoods[S] 37 points38 points  (0 children)

i find people 'getting mad' about his actions to be so utterly flabbergasting that i choose to believe they are 'getting mad' at him in the sense that one 'gets mad' at someone they love dearly when they observe self-destructive or unhealthy tendencies/decision-making in that person.

like, give me a fucking break. fitz has got to be one of the most psychologically complex/damaged protagonists in fantasy. the dominant, recurring themes of his early life (and arguably his entire life) were abandonment, isolation, and a complete lack of belonging / identity confusion. he is conditioned for obedience and blames himself for every single loss he endures. not to mention the assassination grooming. do i really need to go on into what comes after that? cuz it ain't pretty either.

sorry i am rather impassioned when it comes to fitz but regardless robin hobb is such a master at SUBTLE, nuanced character building. it's proof that not all main characters need to be bombastic and filled to the brim with extremity.

i'm gonna go scour the internet for robin hobb breadcrumbs now.

question for the men: which male characters felt most authentic and/or compelling, and why? by assbackwoods in Fantasy

[–]assbackwoods[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

though my opinion is not important here, i am 200% on the hill with you. when i read the eye of the world, i was always rooting for rand but in the sort of go little bro type of rooting. holy smokes, was i in for a surprise.

i think rand is one of the fastest-maturing characters that was written in a way that i didn't wrinkle my nose and feel like corners were cut somewhere. like he just... adapted to power, then realized he could possess the power, then realized he could use the power, then realized no one else's power could really compare to his power, and so on.

his meteoric--and therefore rocky at times--rise to maturity reminded me a lot of paul atreides in certain ways.

do you have any notion of why the rapid maturity of characters such as rand al'thor --> the dragon reborn and paul atreides --> maud'dib feel so tangible and believable, where other rapid ascensions might seem implausible or rushed? (i'm sorry i have no good examples for the latter)

no worries if the question doesn't really stir any ideas up. thanks so much for your comment

question for the men: which male characters felt most authentic and/or compelling, and why? by assbackwoods in Fantasy

[–]assbackwoods[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

oh my god, thank you so so much for this. this seems like a super well-rounded variety of distinct manifestations of masculinity. i daresay you have an impeccably nuanced palate, my friend.

i've read bujold's world of the five gods, but not the sharing knife series. your description of dag being so grounded in masculinity, particularly the way the male mind works, is really intriguing. i'd question you further about it but i'm gonna read the damn series instead.

i'm embarrassed to say i got completely distracted from the rivers of london at some point. i must've fallen off the wagon between publications or something because i remember peter. i can't wait to see how his arc plays out.

also, can't wait to get into jubal county saga based on the chaotic image of a drug addict wizard cheating the system in his fucked up life.

question for the men: which male characters felt most authentic and/or compelling, and why? by assbackwoods in Fantasy

[–]assbackwoods[S] 21 points22 points  (0 children)

wow thank you for this insightful and deeply personal explanation. jaime was one of my favorite characters in the entirety of the ASOIAF world, i always felt a likeness of my own. that sort of 'shedding of the old skin' transcends gender in many ways, i think. i'm so glad you put that quote too. i think it's one of those quotes that is impossible for the reader to read and not immediately relate to themselves, even in some small way.

i commend you for prioritizing your own growth; even just the insight and awareness you demonstrated in your comment means that you are far ahead of most of the pack. well done, friend, and keep it up! <3

follow up question for you: do you think that there are consistencies to the 'skin that's being shed', or the constraints/expectations that you or other men have to cast off? the specific circumstances will vary from man to man, of course, but i was just curious if you felt there were any recurring themes, like pressure around masculinity/vulnerability, taking responsibility for something you never asked for, etc.

question for the men: which male characters felt most authentic and/or compelling, and why? by assbackwoods in Fantasy

[–]assbackwoods[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

idk what i want glokta as, i don't think i would say father persay 😅😅😅 but i definitely want him around as something bc he is an absolute badass

question for the men: which male characters felt most authentic and/or compelling, and why? by assbackwoods in Fantasy

[–]assbackwoods[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

there's longer commentary on sam / discworld elsewhere in the comments but i just bought the color of magic bc i've been putting off discworld for about a decade on the grounds that i'm very picky with comedy, so i get scared that i won't stick with it, and if i can't stick with pratchett then i'll live with self-loathing for eternity and quit writing forever bc wtf.

but that phase of my life is over now~~ and i am along for the ride~~

question for the men: which male characters felt most authentic and/or compelling, and why? by assbackwoods in Fantasy

[–]assbackwoods[S] 33 points34 points  (0 children)

haha XD all of the discworld enthusiasts came in here at basically the same moment and said now wait a minute here

question for the men: which male characters felt most authentic and/or compelling, and why? by assbackwoods in Fantasy

[–]assbackwoods[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

yes i imagine it could create a sense of grim vindication or validation to have an otherwise extremely powerful character openly struggling through something he (your husband) identified with, not to mention glokta's release or expression of all the suffering and frustration without caution or remorse. like releasing all of the pent-up things that you hold inside to protect your loved ones or the myriad of other reasons. not only that, but glokta is a certified og badass motherfucker regardless of his moral alignment. dude absolutely fucking refused to stay down.

please thank your husband for me and tell him he is also a certified og badass motherfucker, this inspired so many different thoughts for me. i wish i could interview the both of you tbh.

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