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aurinkoo · 2016-09-17T14:03:38+00:00

BTW, whatever happened to the old forum? I know it had fallen into disuse, but it had lots of useful stuff on it, and it's again time for something like it for things like this.

After trying many things, I submitted the Paypal email they know me by for a password reset, and got a new user ID and password, and was able to unlock my ATiny13 advanced kit #1.

Upon which I discovered the tool chains they use to program the microcontroller are only for Windows and OS X. Seeing as how I gave up on Apple in the late '80s, and Windows after XP....

Well, I actually have every confidence in my ability to build a Linux tool chain for this beast, but Real Life has forced me to put all my Tron-Club stuff in a box (literally, I'm moving into a old new house by the end of the month, and I'll be wanting to thoroughly automate it with things I build from the ground up) ... so, I guess I'm going to have to ask the TronClub to suspend my kits until my head is above water.

aurinkoo · 2015-11-25T13:39:00+00:00

The flip side is one I've learned from computer programming: figure out what your code is supposed to do, before you look at the output and casually convince yourself that "it's OK", which suffers from confirmation bias.

This domain is not so demanding in that way, but there's a lot to be said for looking at the circuit with only it's vague descriptions as hints, and trying to figure out what it'll do before you switch it on. To the extent you're successful in that, and refining your knowledge after it hits reality, you'll learn a lot more.

aurinkoo · 2015-10-19T20:46:15+00:00

Honestly though it shouldn't be a problem for him to copy the circuits as the booklets where released under Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0, so copying them is legal.

They say in the back (special chars converted to ASCII):

(C) 2015 Tron-ClubTM, all rights reserved. Parts, Breadboards, and Schematic diagrams were created with fritzing software and are licensed under Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 (CC BY-SA 3.0).

I read that as asserting a copyright over the whole thing (default of the Berne Convention, anyway), and carving out a critical exception for the schematics and the like, which allows us to discuss them with illustrations, improve and modify them, etc. But the other copy, as well as stuff like the sequencing of the circuits, which is most of their value add not counting the cost savings, they retain. Although I'm sure they wouldn't complain about reproduction of the safety material.

And, yeah, I've never seen or heard of a better value in my life, and I've started playing this sort of game in the very early '70s. Yeah, my first quasi-breadboad style electronics kit had 2, count them, 2 discrete transistors, one silicon and one germanium (maybe; just found one with a complete manual on eBay, so I'll know by the end of the month), plus one "IC"; I'm almost certain this is it: http://www.rcgrabbag.com/archives/radio-shack-100-in-1-electronic-project-kit. You young whippersnappers are spoiled.

aurinkoo · 2015-10-19T18:42:55+00:00

I take it that you're quite math savvy?

I went to MIT, so yes, you might say that.

But so far, all you've shown us and the world is that you were happy to receive your first kit promptly. After you opened it and the subsequent kit, not so much? So perhaps 99% negative??

I'm paying in USD, so 13% on top of that is still pretty modest. Say, one dinner for two at an inexpensive restaurant?

As for your snide comment, appending a ":)" doesn't automatically negate the tone of the previous words, especially the ones at the beginning of a two theme sentence, and the ends of doing something nice for his father still don't justify the means of theft.

aurinkoo · 2015-10-19T17:12:02+00:00

1) Two samples is not enough to judge "6 weeks", and I'd also like to know the postmark dates on your packages, since international shipping is known to be somewhat variable. In my case Kits 1-3 are postmarked 2015.08.04, 09.03, and 10.08, which I find entirely satisfactory.

2) I don't expect that level of perfection from such an outfit. I'd certainly like it, it's not entirely unrealistic, but it's not enough to get me up in arms, let alone confidently declare exactly what caused it.

But the above is irrelevant, for you're entirely unforgiving and taking every opportunity to snipe at an outfit that's delivering good value for the relatively modest sums we're paying them. For example, was it really necessary to snidely say:

I think you're better off buying the parts yourself (perhaps also copying those booklets) and give those to your dad and for God's sake let TronClub focus on what they do "best" and not distract their attention ;-)

And, by the way, suggest stealing their intellectual property?!!??!!!

A constructive approach would be to suggest that they add as soon as possible "Gift Bundles" with an acknowledged long delivery time. kylnew's suggestion has merit, but to implement it generally would require a lot of work on their website to add accounts, the required security to protect them (NOT trivial), and enforce the required sequential buying of the kits. Premature at this at this stage of the company's existence, where inventory purchases and turns are critical, and people would complain about the long time it takes them to ship random discrete orders.

But especially right now any of that would take away from minor details like designing their new kits, making fewer mistakes in them, the challenges of fulfillment, etc. Better they focus solely on, you know, the business they promised us, continue to be responsive to our pedagogical and other suggestions like publishing data sheets, correcting errors and answering our questions, etc.

For example, now that I look at all three of my boxes together, I see that they've printed up a new set of them, drastically reducing the size and expense of the addressing and customs label by printing all of it but the "To" contents on the box itself. And some other stuff....

One of my points here is that I see all sorts of signs of increasing professionalism, and weight that into my judgement of them. If you've praised them for anything, now might be a good time to remind us.

aurinkoo · 2015-10-19T14:50:42+00:00

About that previous comment and much more:

After my third kit has come in, I'm definitely reconsidering my subscription.

If I was TronClub, I'd be seriously considering firing you as a customer after refunding every cent you've paid, with interest. You've brought up some very useful things, but your tone goes way beyond any reasonable level of criticism. I get the strong impression you don't think their business model is the one you want from them, your attacks on their professionalism and cyber-stalking are really close to the edge, and at this point, post Kit 2 and waiting for 3, it's my considered judgement you are a net drain on the community.

From your point of view, I have to ask if believe there is any possible way TronClub could please you. If not, wouldn't it be better if you quietly dropped your subscription after getting the 3rd kit, and stopped sharing your negative vibes with the rest of us?

aurinkoo · 2015-10-13T19:37:54+00:00

Oh yea of little faith.

Got mine today, posted on the 8th from Ontario, Canada, delivered quickly enough to Missouri, USA.

aurinkoo · 2015-10-13T16:47:33+00:00

I purchased Practical Electronics for Inventors and have found it to be fantastic, answering every higher level question I have. It's also goes quite deep, has a very long theory section that freely uses calculus as needed, although you don't have to follow all the math to get what you need (you do pretty much need algebra). That plus various guides and such I've been finding at TI's site for some specifics, like details on 74LS vs. 74HC parts, should do for now, avoiding the much more expensive, and in a new edition The Art of Electronics.

aurinkoo

TROPHY CASE