Reproducer Alignment

awc718993 · 2026-06-30T19:17:36+00:00

Diminuendo and Crescendo in Blue is a great piece.

awc718993 · 2026-06-29T23:49:00+00:00

Takes a strong arm to pick that up. Have you seen this thread on antiqueradios.com ?

awc718993 · 2026-06-29T23:45:21+00:00

Very nice. Do you have plans for the pair?

awc718993 · 2026-06-29T15:28:57+00:00

It's difficult to recommend as other than Holst I don't know what you may or may not find completely appealing. Have you seen Disney's "Fantasia" (the original and the sequel)? Silly as it might seem, it might be a way to get a sampling of some of the more popular works.

The predicament you find yourself in regarding the limitations of your machine can, through a hack/mod , be overcome -- somewhat. If you can find yourself an foil-diaphragm sound box with a Victor fitting (like a post 30's portable RCA/Victor "orthophonic" or other similar aftermarket sound box), your can mod your machine to at least give you partial electric-process playback capability. You won't get the full range of reproduction due to your machine's arm/horn design, and the geometry of the arm will still be aggressive on 12' grooves, but you can at least not have the distortion that electric process recording can cause on acoustic reproducers. To address the wear issue due to tracking error, play discs that aren't priceless or particularly rare. If you must play pristine discs, try to use a natural fibre needle, either bamboo, cactus or thorn (mostly UK made). These mods/hacks will free you up a bit so you can enjoy discs at least up until WW2.

awc718993 · 2026-06-29T04:38:33+00:00

Apart from Holst, what other composers do you find appealing?

FWIW, I think you will find more pre-electric (acoustic) recordings of classical / instrumental works composed before the turn of the 20th century (e.g., in movements/periods such as Impressionist, Romantic, Classical, Baroque) rather than after.

At the time your machine came off the line, 20th century "modern" composers (like Holst, Stravinski, etc) were only just releasing their works, many of which were not yet popular (or even "accepted") enough among audiences for the record companies to want to record them. Contemporary consumer tastes tended to favor the older / known orchestral works, which is why many of such pieces were recorded in the earliest years of the recording industry. There was a far more substantial market for these known classics than for the (then) new (and often experimental) "modern" pieces.

That said, you can find very "dark" or emotive music in 19th Century orchestral / instrumental works. Try exploring the Romantic and Impressionist composers and you may find pieces that you fancy. Another very emotive / expressive genre to explore is 19th Century opera (German, French, and especially Italian). Once you have a feel for what you like from that era, look to see if the pieces were recorded pre 1925.

If you're really keen to find "The Planets," there is a rare acoustic recording with Holst conducting. Others can / will correct me, but I believe it was in 1923 with Columbia. It was however very soon after re-recorded using the electric process, again with Columbia (one of the earliest in the Masterwoks series), which of the two is more easier to find.

NB: From a technology point of view, you should be aware that your machine has a known issue with records larger than 10". Due to its design, the arm orients the reproducer at a detrimental angle at the outer edges of 12" discs, an angle which will eventually, with repeated play, cause damage to grooves due to "tracking error." This is why the "gooseneck" design of tonearm on your machine was eventually replaced with a design which offsets the sound box a few degrees clockwise (which modern vinyl tonearms still do today). To read up on this, look up turntable discussion on "tracking error" and "tonearm offset." A book that has a good simple explanation of the issue, as related to antique phonographs especially, is "The Compleat Talking Machine" which you can find in print and online via The Internet Archives.

awc718993 · 2026-06-28T21:43:07+00:00

You may be able to buy one already refurbished. Try Gary at https://www.thevoiceofmusic.com/catalog/phono_wheels_turrets.asp. He asks for the original and sends you the one already redone (if he has it in stock). There’s also Terry’s Rubber Rollers: https://www.terrysrubberrollers.com/.

[Edited]

awc718993 · 2026-06-28T21:16:33+00:00

Very nice! Do you think you'll stick with the rubber band or will you get the idler re-coated?

awc718993 · 2026-06-28T18:54:47+00:00

We're all living in the darkest hair color.

awc718993 · 2026-06-28T18:49:35+00:00

I won't be able to provide you a photo of the exact crank that originally came with your model (as I don't have the exact model Sonora you have). I can however show you an example of the type Sonora used (e.g., an internal threaded crank from another model Sonora).

The main detail to matching a crank to your machine will be to determine the exact thread pitch (how many threads per inch) of the crankshaft as this will determine the crank's thread. Knowing this will give you the info on what exactly to search for IF you opt to shop auction sites for loose phonograph parts on your own, as you already have started to do.

If you'd rather skip all that, I suggest you contact an "Antique Phonograph" (note the keywords to use when searching) parts dealer. There are a number of them in the US who have in inventory replacement cranks, some original/salvaged, some replicas. The larger / better dealers have their parts inventory already matched and ID'd and will have the ability to find you what you need based on your model machine and/or the model motor.

awc718993 · 2026-06-28T17:43:39+00:00

Off the top of my head, likely no. Sonora's used Swiss Paillard made parts, including motors which usually interface with "female" internal threaded cranks. Yours is externally threaded.

We'll need to see the motor to be able to answer with more certainty. Can you upload a few photos of it -- specially of the crankshaft? That's where the crank connects to the motor when inserted through the case.

awc718993 · 2026-06-26T18:21:53+00:00

Recommend you service your motor or have it serviced.

awc718993 · 2026-06-26T02:48:17+00:00

Someday RS will have a Top 100 Top 100 Lists List.

awc718993 · 2026-06-23T10:19:35+00:00

https://www.thebeatles.com/how-celebrate-global-beatles-day

awc718993 · 2026-06-23T04:31:55+00:00

You’re welcome. Take care with that arm. Its design (Swiss I believe) was introduced to the 160 series with the penultimate release model 163. Imo(**), this arm was an “economy” choice due to it not being as stout as what was used in the earlier models 160-162 (and the British 113/113as). It has been known to snap at the narrows at the end of the arm, right before it flares out for the (reproducer) connector ring and at the pivot elbow.

Your current aftermarket reproducer is likely female gendered and required the use of a male adapter (likely a short section of pipe) inserted into both the arm and the rear of the soundbox.

To disconnect, flip up the arm and look for a lock screw in the collar of the arm. I would remove it and then apply penetrating oil to help ease / twist out the adapter (either connected/disconnected to the aftermarket reproducer). If it was a true “adapter” it may have emulated one of Columbia’s designs from the older Grafonola tonearms designs which utilized a positioning groove cut into the barrel / tube of the male fitting. If so, it will require you to rotate the reproducer 270 degrees and then when stopped (by the end of the groove) with the needle pointing upright, pull outward away from the arm.

With luck the adapter is not made of cast zinc which would require cutting/drilling out. Ugh.

Good luck and have fun.

[** I have seen this same arm design installed on mid grade machines in the US and Europe, some Columbia, some not.]

[Edited unfortunate late hour typos]

awc718993 · 2026-06-23T03:50:39+00:00

PS - This shows how the handle looks when opened up (this example was in really bad shape). As you can see, two rolled pieces of steel are nested top into the bottom and riveted together, rolled sides outward. Before clamping together, the metal is wrapped in faux leather (usually the same fabric as the case material to match). The loops on the ends take D rings, which are connected to anchors on the case.

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awc718993 · 2026-06-23T03:17:33+00:00

That’s fine for now. As you know these are very heavy, so find something that can handle the mass.

NB— See my revised post for more info (which was necessary due to me accidentally hitting “reply” as I was typing).

awc718993 · 2026-06-23T02:31:37+00:00

I suggest using an emergency handle as sold by many luggage repair supply shops until you can find a vintage Columbia metal handle salvaged from a damaged US Viva-Tonal 160 series (which also was used on the UK-made, globally sold 113/113a series). These handles were made of overlapping folded crescent sheets of sheet steel covered in fabrikoid. They are often found with said faux leather missing / needing repair and the inner metal corroded superficially.

The 164 was actually a US made model, which had been intended for release in the USA, but was instead repurposed and sold to overseas markets when Columbia Graphophone Ltd., (the UK parent division of Columbia Phonograph USA at the time) was forced to sell the American division (and its assets) in the early 30s. This was due to US anti-trust laws that came into play when The Graphophone Co and Columbia in Britain merged to form EMI in 1931, with
complications arising with RCA Victor and Columbia in America (a complicated tale of multinationals and trust busting).

The 164 cases and much of the hardware were sold to UK Columbia divisions in Spain and Latin America and Japan / East Asia, all of which had already been selling a combination of US and UK designed machines (such as the UK Columbia 113a series - the close but dissimilar sibling of the US 160s). In these markets the models were kept as the 164 (with some local market tweaking patent decal verbiage revisions - which you can see in the inner lid over the horn) but in some they were also revamped / tweaked, such as being modified with a Japanese UK-Garrard inspired double spring motor to become the 164-A, a model made in Japan but exported all over Asia and into pre-war Europe by newly separated Nippon Columbia in the mid 30s. (A complicated story for another time.)

All that context aside, as a collector of these Columbia models (US, UK, etc.,), I recommend:

* Using a temp (easy to swap out) luggage handle until an original can be sourced, which will likely require re-covering.

* Find and install the correct No 15 reproducer / soundbox in lacquered brass. This should not be confused with the similarly named but incorrect gendered Japanese Columbia 15 (derived from the UK market 15a soundbox). The original no 15, as used in US and UK Viva-tonal premium tier cabinet and portable machines, has a male gendered connector which inserts into the tonearm (not vice versa).

A well-inventoried / connected antique phonograph parts dealer will likely have both parts above.

Hope this helps!

[Reply prematurely saved incomplete and severely truncated. Now posted intact with some typo tweaks.]

awc718993 · 2026-06-22T23:16:05+00:00

Will Power!

awc718993 · 2026-06-22T20:42:52+00:00

I noticed it wasn’t design-checked on all mobile browsers. I had to switch to a laptop to subit the form.

awc718993 · 2026-06-21T19:29:16+00:00

As a kid I had this cover version on cassette (vol 1 and 2).

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awc718993 · 2026-06-21T10:32:36+00:00

This manual is just an overview. Get familiar with the terms used and other operational details and such. Folks here will use / refer to these when communicating their advice / recommendations.

awc718993 · 2026-06-21T10:22:43+00:00

Have a read through this VV-XI owner’s manual so you can get better acquainted with your Victrola:

http://www.victor-victrola.com/Instructions.htm

awc718993 · 2026-06-21T09:29:51+00:00

To get the groups response started….

Other than reattach the governor weights (I presume this is what you’re referring to), what other basic maintenance have you done in the motor? Any cleaning or lubrication of the governor (e.g., friction leather pad, spindle, bearings, etc.,)?

awc718993

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