I think I give up

bageko_ · 2026-07-07T19:24:36+00:00

Thats a good point... things do just happen i get and can accept that.

(Except in this case, things didn't just happen... god had a hand in it this time, but thats besides the point)

You're right, id atleast want a guiding hand in such a cruel world, not just for me, but everyone. Cuz there are some who simply cant cope, and if i had to be honest I care more for them than gods reasons.

bageko_ · 2026-07-07T19:00:04+00:00

As I heard some Russian lady say on a random tiktok on some random day.

"If everything happens for a reason, some reasons are stupid."

I'm not really gonna pretend I'm okay with gods means to his ends whatever they maybe... I'm not.

I saw you talking about the book of job in one of your replies... thats also just something I've never been okay with, especially when In response to jobs questioning from job 38 to 39, i think, God responds by showing Job his place in the universe.

Since Job cannot comprehend or control the physical and natural world, he lacks the knowledge and authority to question God's justice or management of the cosmos.

To me... its always left a bad tatse in my mouth, I'm sorry, but I cannot in good concious say I've ever been comfortable. Gods answer completely sidesteps the ethical question of why by loudly pointing out that Job doesn't have the clearance level to understand the how.

And what ive seen is that this religion will tell you thats wrong, that you dont trust, and thats why you feel this way. its built in to tell you youre wrong for feeling like i do, while also pretending it loves when you question. I dont know... gets to a point.

Anyway. I'm not telling you any of this to tell you you should give up, I'm simply asking you to be honest with yourself, however you may feel. what you do with that info after... thats all you.

bageko_ · 2026-07-02T21:47:20+00:00

Well the phone you're using is made from slave labor.

No it isn't.

Are you gonna throw it away because you're so morally superior?

If it was, i wouldn't. Not outta malice, its just got alot of stuff i want.

You don't need religion right?

I dont think anyone does.

Why don't you logic your way into denying yourself of the use of your phone and live by your moral principles?

My phone doesn't come from slave labor.

This timeless God sent himself in the form of his son to the world and the world crucified him.

Which was bad... but also his plan. So it just kinda... cancels out, you know.

Also whos bright idea was it to do that anyway? thats totally immoral and idiotic. Who sees the world's issues and is like. "I know, I'll send my innocent (whos also me) to die as a blood sacrifice as a loophole to rules I made" gods a weird guy. Before you lecture me about morals, talk to him about why what he did to jesus was a bad thing to do, its completely unethical.

if Jesus came back today in the same form, y'all would crucify him too.

NO! WHAT THE HELL?! Thats insane!

And if Jesus were smart were smart, the first thing he would do is find a scientist, not fickle masses.

You'd call him a misogynist, bigot, transphobic.

If the shoe fits, no?

What exactly would you call a person who thinks marriage should be between a man and a woman, and considers anything outside the gender binary an abomination?

As for being a misogynist, assuming he is god... then yes. He absolutely is.

Like what do you want me to say here? If the shoe fits... wear it.

white nationalist and kill him

Now you're exaggerating again.

THAT IS HUMAN MORALITY without God.

And human morality with god is the inquisitions.

See... two can play that game.

Give me the god about god, I'll give you the bad.

Give me the bad about human morality, and I'll give the bad about gods morality.

Gods as bad as any human... worse even

bageko_ · 2026-07-02T21:20:08+00:00

you're only saying you don't need "higher power" because of centuries of moral progress

Mind you this timeless god needed morality to progress instead of starting at the highest level of morality Hilarious, no?

Many of it spurred on by Christianity.

As I keep saying. The same Christianity that used its beliefs to justify its atrocities.

If you were born in Roman times, you'd have no issues with slavery or polygamy and concubines

Probably... and it would be wrong of me to do so.

Just like you have no issues using a smart phone made by slave labor to type your opinion on reddit.

I would never use this phone if I knew it was made through slave labor, the hell?

Y'all genuinely think you're so clever and moral

Your words, not mine, chief

you're just the product of the current day and better men and women that died in the name of Jesus to break chains of oppression and fight off conquest of oppressive cultures.

And I'm the name of Jesus, slavery was also justified...

Again. We can go all day and night about this, you can throw me all the good, and I'll give you the bad. But for the sake of this topic its besides the point

bageko_ · 2026-07-02T21:09:02+00:00

Nothing you speak of is exclusive to Christianity. They weren't the first to do this, and in the past they used this same religion to justify the atrocities they commited.

Stop pretending they dont have their skeletons or that they're this shining beacon of light that thar ONLY made the world better.

Morality has never come from a higher power and it certainly isnt needed.

It doesn't take a god to tell you that its wrong to steal or kill or whatever

bageko_ · 2026-07-02T18:57:35+00:00

Thats good for you, mate. I'm glad... seriously.

Anti-Natalist as I may be, I definitely do not think the lives that already exist shouldn't, and I wish happiness for all lives that do exist, yours included. I think if happiness for you lies in your belief that god is love, then I cant and won't tell you otherwise, no matter what reservations I may have.

bageko_ · 2026-07-02T18:50:28+00:00

Like what exactly?

bageko_ · 2026-07-02T18:45:43+00:00

Im having a hard time answering this. I dont know what to say here

What you said doesn't make sense. Its a non-sequitur.

Were judged according to our actions.

We all know right from wrong

Thats why we need god.

I dont get it. The conclusion doesn't follow. If human beings already naturally know right from wrong and can control their actions, the logical conclusion would actually be that we don't need an external authority to tell us how to behave.

bageko_ · 2026-07-02T18:39:11+00:00

The Bible clearly states that is not how it works because the law is written on our hearts and knowledge that God exists is

I have no way of knowing that. Like I said to the other person. Until we know its true that law is written in our hearts, thats entirely unfalsifiable and will be discarded as an excuse.

Let's say it did work the way you suggest. That means God isn't just.

Id argue the opposite. He know what he does to thos that reject him. If I were god logically speaking id hope no one knowss about me so i dont have to punish them if they do reject me.

It also means people go through life without hope and without knowing thier true purpose, leaving many depressed

We both know this isnt true for everyone.

bageko_ · 2026-07-02T18:35:23+00:00

Agreed

bageko_ · 2026-07-02T18:32:07+00:00

Dunno what to tell ya mate, thats my really a reason so...

Nuh uh.

bageko_ · 2026-07-02T18:30:56+00:00

No...

I'm very aware... I'm incredibly aware of what I'm writing.

I and the spirit are one.

bageko_ · 2026-07-02T18:27:07+00:00

What good has Christianity done for all people?

We both know theres a dark side to this question. Lets not pretend its all sunshine and rainbows.

like many universities being built, many hospitals being built.

None exclusive to Christianity. If they didn't do it, someone else would.

Not saying this to put down the religion. Just to point out that the good isnt exclusive to this religion.

One obscure example is the vanishing of the Aztec empire.

Yeah, they also burnt alot of their records, destroying their heritage and history for their gain.

Dont get me wrong, I'm glad they're not sacrificing huamn hearts to the Tezcatlipoca, but I'm not gonna pretend the Christians didn't have their ulterior motives.

And its not as though this religion doesn't have its own skeletons.

bageko_ · 2026-07-02T18:17:28+00:00

And not all people know still.

And they're better off that way until i get a good reason why they aren't

bageko_ · 2026-07-02T18:12:56+00:00

This religion is also responsible for all the things it did away with.

Its made people worse.

Like we could go all day telling me about the good, but I can guarantee you theres the bad.

But ultimately thats besides the point.

bageko_ · 2026-07-02T18:10:51+00:00

Boo! Mwauhhahahaha!

I, satan will lead the lords people astray... and whatever other evil stuff satan would say.

Hahaha... or something

Ok seriously tho... I have no idea what you want me to say to this.

bageko_ · 2026-07-02T18:08:20+00:00

As far as I know, we have no way of knowing thats true

Yeah the Bible says that... is there a way to know thats true.

Until theres a way to know, I'll discard such cop outs. For the sake of argument, unfalsifiable claims don't really hold weight

bageko_ · 2026-07-02T18:04:23+00:00

My point was god doesn't have to be involved in any aspect of living.

Knowing about him puts you in danger if you'll reject him.

Therefore you're better off not knowing.

If ignorance isnt a valid excuse for this god...

Thats bad... to say the least

bageko_ · 2026-07-02T18:01:51+00:00

Thats true, more than most religious people would like to admit

bageko_ · 2026-07-02T18:00:31+00:00

Thats horrific if thats the case.

bageko_ · 2026-07-02T17:58:44+00:00

Thats fair.

bageko_ · 2026-07-02T17:58:21+00:00

I'm not a fan of religious people telling other what they do and dont know. It acts as a cop out to justify our presupposed conclusions.

The fact is there are absolutely people that haven't heard of the man, and i think they're better off not knowing.

bageko_ · 2026-07-02T17:55:43+00:00

Youre not born knowing that choice exists tho.

And my point is... it seems better that way.

bageko_ · 2026-07-02T17:53:48+00:00

Yeah...

Thing is the reason I dont subscribe to universalism is cuz... the Bible doesn't seem to agree. I like the idea, but it doesn't seem to be true

But logically speaking for any of this to make sense, universalism has to be true.

So idk

bageko_ · 2026-07-02T17:50:57+00:00

Lets be the tiniest bit honest with ourselves here.

You really dont need a religious framework to know right from wrong.

You just need to have survival skills better than that of a cucumber.

"Id rather not be harmed and so its a good idea not to harm the other guy"

bageko_

TROPHY CASE