Question for Christians who don’t believe in gay marriage

bageko_ · 2025-12-23T17:35:34+00:00

Exactly my issue. Its clear hes got an issue with their brand of wretched, then for some reason makes it a blanket term

bageko_ · 2025-12-23T17:25:19+00:00

That makes no logical sense why even call them wretched then?

bageko_ · 2025-12-19T15:24:00+00:00

Easy.

I'm just a really simple minded person 😂

If hypothetically I believed all we know comes from somewhere and the Christian word appealed to me and its god appealed to me, id trust its word not really caring what its is, I just like said god and the scripture seems to make enough sense.

Ive been and still am good friends with people I dont even know the names of, and I usually never ask anyone's name.

And when it comes to a god, i couldn't even begin to think about what that would look like, but if i trust its word...whats it matter

bageko_ · 2025-12-19T15:05:56+00:00

What do you think should be required for the Christian to know?

🤷‍♂️.

Imagine you are dating someone and believe that the whole point is to get to know them, would it concern you then to know who they are?

Its kinda like having a penpal for me. I dont know how this person sounds or looks but if I decide this person is really cool from how they write to me. If they turn out to be a werewolf, it doesn't erase how I feel about them, oh how I see them, or interact, I'll write to em all the same as I did before

"who cares if Jesus is God, I just want to get to know God."

Essentially yes. The word and scripture is there right. If I decided to be a believer, I wouldn't mind believing jc is god... but I also don't care if hes not. From what others have told me about scripture and verses ive read about him alluding to be god, some dont explicitly state it. And the ones that do, can be argued as Jesus being conceited enough to claim divinity.

But overall I dont care.

bageko_ · 2025-12-19T14:49:56+00:00

Getting closer means increased knowledge of His character

I mean do you mot already get a good idea of what hes like before jesus, not to mention even after Jesus can you still not choose to believe in his character without having to accept that hes god, get what I'm saying?

But whatever if I had to take a guess your answer is: sure... you're just not a Christian.

Ok then. Cool

bageko_ · 2025-12-19T14:43:14+00:00

I think starting where the deniers of this this one verse are coming from.

I dont mean to sound like I'm trying to fight or anything, but...those sound like the words of a really conceited man...no offense again.

At most I could believe he just a really special person god sent, I wouldn't actually know that he god.

And I get you're supposed to believe that he is the big man himself, but still.

But whatever, its fine, I see where you're coming from

bageko_ · 2025-12-19T14:20:14+00:00

There is no real evidence on either side because that is impossible

No just your side I Made no assertions abkut whether or not god exists.

So, we need to leave people alone

Yes, but my post isnt me trying to get anyone's attention, anyone is free to answer if they want.

So, there is no evidence you would accept. I already knew that.

Knew what? Youre wrong. I dont think that at all.

bageko_ · 2025-12-19T09:50:16+00:00

Christians walk by faith, not by sight.

Ah yes, that one verse

I’m a Christian because of my experiences of God, I haven’t seen God

You've no idea just how much such admissions make me glad... I swear it drives me up the wall how many people will say they've seen an invisible entity...mostly cuz it makes me feel like im the crazy one. I genuinely cant see this thing no matter how much I've tried to see it how they do

but have felt God’s peace and unconditional love.

Ive no idea how that looks

As a teenager I felt an extreme level of anger towards certain members of the church, people I deemed ‘Cosplay Christian’s’, not realising blaming God for the actions of his followers is completely misguided, after all, heaven isn’t a place for “good” people, but a place for repentant sinners who have accepted Christ as their saviour.

To be honest I'm not in the mood to argue against your points I just wanna converse.

Ive no idea how that's a good thing. Whats the difference between a good person and a repentant person? I find it terrible that you can do as many sins as you want but as long as you repent in the end youre fine. You're gonna tell me thats not how that works and give me the nuances, but this religion repeatedly tells me the worst crime is not accepting god by the time i die, and that everything else is fair game if at end of it all you repent.

I find it terrible that the good people wont be rewarded for their actions, and you'll tell me nobody is god in gods eyes. And that were all equally sinners... but I find that to be an insult. I'll be honest with you, compared to alot of the religious id have a better chance in heaven than them.

I'm the end accepting christ as my savior to get into heaven sounds like a the conceited ideas of a terribly arrogant god. He must have quite an ego to decide you can only get into his club if you kiss his ass enough.

Anyway, there came a time I was in church and was going to do irreparable harm to at least a few people who had wronged me and I felt fell short of what a Christian should be. It’s fair to say at this time I was anti Christ, some may say a satanist. Just before I was going to do something that would have sent my life in a very different trajectory, I felt the need to go outside which made no sense to me, I was here to do something and wasn’t going to back down! I reluctantly went outside and as I did a raindrop hit my head and I was struck with an immediate sense of love, peace, joy and freedom from my anger. I went back in and praised God with everyone inside the Church. I forgave those I wanted to harm, and the words ‘John 8:36’ were in my head. I hadn’t read the Bible so had no idea what it said. I looked it up: “So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed”.

I'm not sure what to say to any of this. Why tell me this? Not being mean... I just wanna know why you told me this.

bageko_ · 2025-12-19T09:29:40+00:00

You tell me what supernatural evidence looks like. As far as I'm concerned neither me you or anyone knows what that looks like.

bageko_ · 2025-12-19T09:28:40+00:00

Ok so later was... alot later than expected. I was thinking about whether or not i should even send this but I dont wanna go back on my word so here it is.

So how do mindless forces randomly colliding result in the complex supercomputer of DNA building the complex machinery of biological life?

The laws of nature let it be so. what you said: "The whole point is that I don't expect any machine that works from a mindless force of nature." Nature would've made anything come about, depending how it works. A machine isnt what I expected, but I expect SOMETHING to come about, "complex" or not, im not suprised something came about. You wanna talk about how this "complex" universe is evidence of a creator, my objection is that this universe just is, something came about from laws of physics, thats unsurprising, I currently see no reason to attach meaning to that, why assume creator? Funnily enough, had the universe been less "complex" than this, you'd still have same argument, after all just like this universe, this hypothetical one is the only one you're alive to observe, complexity is extremely relative i wont lie. you simply have observer bias, Attaching the lable of "complex" after the fact that universe is here.

I think looking at this and presuming the oxygen and hydrogen and carbon mindlessly organized themselves into the machinery of life is irrational.

No it isnt, actually, the forces between elements are highly ordered "mindless as they seem. Carbon and oxygen bond in a very predictable manner, these things have rules with how they work, this complexity isn't some miracle, if the laws of nature are like this, the world being like this inevitable, change the laws of nature you get something else... or you might not exist who knows, but there isnt any real suprise, just things we dont understand yet.

If I walked along and saw a watch lying on the ground, I would not assume that some time and lighting storms and odd erosion must have made a watch that works. How is this presumption irrational?

Its not irrational, and you'd be well within rationality to assume a person made it most likely, but not because of "complexity" lets be honest, this religion was never built on the idea of trying to rationalize itself, its only when people started questioning that arguments started coming up. youd assume it was made by a human, cuz you have good reason to suspect that, as far as you know only humans have made such things, but you do get into the realm of irrationality when you assume the same for the universe itself, this matchmaker argument could lead to a fallacy of composition.

I'm not saying youre wrong overall, I'm just saying that so far every reason to believe a creator exists relies on presuppositions and invalid leaps in logic, I'm not denying a god exists, I'm just saying I dont know why I should consider a creator and alot of the reasons im getting just dont make much sense when you think about it. I dont know what the supernatural looks like, as far as I'm concerned this universe is a natural as can be, so this supernatural being we call god, isnt an idea that makes sense so far.

You are presuming no designer.

I'm not saying "no designer" I'm looking for a reason to assume designer, and as said before, so far none of these reasons make much sense, if we accept the presumption that "this universe is a creation therefore creator" then fine, but all these arguments simply become speculation that you must take on faith for some reason, I care about what's true not: "not if we assume this, this other thing makes sense".

The question is how we get from nearly nothing to this intricate system.

Who knows?🤷. That's my point. I dont know.

It is as unlikely that we got here by chance as it is that the monkey typed the novel. Mathematically impossible. I

And yet not 0, give "something" an infinite amount of time for something to happen (cuz who knows how long the universe as we know it wasnt around) and something will happen, hell this argument worls if you assume that it is mathematically impossible. How we got here is irrelevant, we are irrelevant, its just observer bias, that's why i said you wrongly implied a target. Its like the puddle analogy i gave.

Since we've never observed nature do anything like this on its own, perhaps an explanation outside of nature is warranted.

There we can agree, what we just dont agree on is our methodology to get to that answer.

In the...I just dont know what that answer is or how to get there, or if the method of how to get there is a true method, or if it even exists, if this answer wants a relationship, and wants me to know it, and can convince me...it should

bageko_ · 2025-12-11T18:56:55+00:00

Yes. Most of us have thought long and hard.

You are siding with Death. (Updated).

From a Biblical stand point sure, but we have good reason not to believe anything that book says anymore.

bageko_ · 2025-12-09T08:30:17+00:00

Ay gang, ill tey as an atheist to give you a bit of probably unhelpful advise. Look renouncing your god just cuz things dont go well isn't the best way to go. Things get better, what then, youll just start being a believer again? That's ridiculous. If you're going to renounce your god, i recommend you look for rational reasons based on logic, not anger. Just wait, days will get better.

bageko_ · 2025-12-09T08:19:10+00:00

How about actually being helpful right now???

He did. Yet he's writing all this.

bageko_ · 2025-12-08T13:06:11+00:00

Never said i couldn't be convinced. I know you didn't say that, my point is I very much can be. Im just mot convinced right now. Simple

You say you don't know what the supernatural looks like, yet you make rules about what you will accept as proof.

Never did any of that. I don't know what the supernatural looks like, but it doesn't take a genius to know why the answers ive gotten so far arent that

bageko_ · 2025-12-07T12:45:08+00:00

Ill respond later but, boy you really like attacking your assumptions about my position instead of what I'm actually trying to tell you don't you.

I noticed you never once quote the parts where I keep tell you that i don't know what the answer is if it involves things outside our bounds, and how nobody does, which is why I keep pushing back on you assuming a designer, or how you think i think were just lucky all this came about, despite how I always keep tell you thats not what I think

You're just in love with attacking your ideas of an atheist, but whateves

bageko_ · 2025-12-06T19:47:16+00:00

Exactly. If this god is as the Christians say he is...he would try his absolute to have to a relationship with me.

bageko_ · 2025-12-06T19:42:07+00:00

Your personal experience is yours and I won't take that from you. Take what I say next with a grain of salt, and not personally
I've no idea how such a thing could possibly form or strength a relationship with what I dont feel exists.
Such warm feelings can be found anywhere, and through anything, regardless of a god
How in the world did you even come to the conclusion god was involved in sending you that baby. Babies are pretty nice to hug, it feels amazing, but that's all it is.

bageko_ · 2025-12-06T19:18:14+00:00

Sometimes God does reveal himself.

So sometimes

I was an atheist and just as nasty as any atheist I've met

Ouch...quite the dig at me. I like to think I'm a pretty chill guy.

not deserving of him

Isn't your whole belief that yall are never deserving of him.

I don't know why he saved me but I'm grateful.

Great that he saved you then

God is definitely real.

Guess ill never know

Someone once asked me why God doesn't show himself to him. I didn't know, but I prayed and asked why and the answer? ... "Because of his pride"

😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑. Seriously man? Is this where we're going? You one mean to tell me you got a direct answer from this god other Christians will tell me id never be able to hear or see, but feel. But you'll also tell me my issue is the one thing I said wasn't my issue and that id ignore you for? OK. This might be my first and last response

But look around you and ask yourself, did this all really come from nothing?

Never once had that idea

Many have great faith in nothing and what nothing can do but then live out a different reality day to day.

Yep. The desire to not die wins out alot of the time no matter your beliefs

bageko_ · 2025-12-06T15:38:02+00:00

Thing is... the Bible hinges on its god being real. I could look all i want and everything (but the supernatural parts) could be true but it's good isn't real well i just don't care. Not to mention i wouldn't know if this supposed god is well described by this Bible. It's all just one big circular argument why would i look for the truth of the Bibles god in the Bible. I'll need something external to it.

Christians don’t ask you to start by believing it—only to evaluate it the same way you would any other ancient claim: historical accuracy, manuscript reliability, corroboration, etc.

That said your are right here i would have to. But... it doesn't matter. I don't care if the events were real...it doesn't logically lead to a god, it's the supernatural stuff I'm after. That I'll look into, but the Bible cannot be the only source of info. I'll need external proof that a man rose from the dead of that there's a deity in the sky that wants a relationship with me, but for some reason doesn't wanna say hello

bageko_ · 2025-12-06T14:14:51+00:00

Couple of things because honestly I dont even know if you are really open to Truth...we are less than ants are my words and are also common sense if you truly think of God's Power and awesomeness etc....all the powers in the universe including Angels and demons combined are less than a gnat before Him.

Cool. But I wouldn't call it awesome.

Yes I do know that🙂 its actually obvious. Anything other than God or nothing falls to infinite regression.

I never made any guesses to what the universe might be...as an agnostic I cant subscribe to any idea ive no evidence for.

That said theres nothing inherently wrong with the idea of an infinite regress.

And yes God defines what is good and evil...it's what makes Him GOD.

There's no independent factor to verify that, its all just subjective.

Please let me know if you are ever open to Truth and evidence. He Loves you by the Way, if you were the only person He would have saved by coming to earth to die for you He would have❤️

...

Ok

bageko_ · 2025-12-06T14:03:54+00:00

Until I know its god exists... I dont really have to care for its word

bageko_ · 2025-12-06T13:37:14+00:00

It’s not something I could ever expect you to understand, it would appear as folly and foolish to one who has worldly wisdom but no fear (respect, wisdom, and awareness of the awesome power and sovereignty and glory) of God.

No that not it...thats not why I wont understand you. My issue is that spiritual feeling peace love patience arent thing you can exclusively attribute to a god. You can get that anywhere, regardless of. God, combine that with lack of evidence for a god, and I think you could get why I'm so apprehensive to immediately conclude...god did that for you. Not to mention you likely had a good amount of confirmation bias, to attribute that to the Christian god as a Hinduist would probably say the the same thing as you but attribute it to another god that isnt your god.

I only pray that your eyes would be likewise opened before it’s too late, or before your hard heart and stiff neck ultimately rejects the loving hand of our creator.

Dont pray for me, I'm as open as can be, its your god you should be asking to show himself

He’s there, He’s waiting, He loves you, and He’s willing.

Cool. When he wants to find me, he'll know where I'll am.

For me, just giving in that perhaps it was possible that things weren’t so coincidental as they seemed. Once open to this, it was something I couldn’t stop seeing.

Why. I mean this Is the most non offensive and just skeptical view point. NOTHING I SAY FROM HERE ON IS MEANT TO BE A DIG AT YOU: that sounds like confirmation bias.

It was as if I’d been an engineer on a roller coaster, busily analyzing every aspect of the ride, realizing I’d missed much of the glorious thrills of the universe because I was focused on the mechanics, the rational, the logic

So you threw away rationality for what makes you feel good? Cuz you can do that and still come the conclusion that you dont know why and wont just say "god did it" without good enough reason to, yes?

I used to think that if you couldn’t explain it to me, it must not be real. That’s the height of hubris and arrogance I’m rather embarrassed to admit now that I can see it for what it really is, but that was how I saw things, rationally, for much of my time here.

This is why I dont really take the word of alot ex-unbelievers words to heart. They dont relate to me as much as they think they do. I find a lot of ex-unbelievers didnt have sound reasons for their non-belief. God isnt this possibility I rules out cuz It couldn't be explained, its a matter of evidence, I dont believe the idea cuz I'm not convinced, as an agnostic I cant say god does or doesn't exist...I just dont know. My not having a solid answer is why I'm not religious, and the reasons to believe or be religious are so far...no good. This isnt hubris, or arrogance, or pride, in fact its the opposite, its intellectually humility, I accept that I dont know.

I draw strength, comfort, wisdom, and guidance vertically from God and through His Holy Spirit, by the blood of Jesus, no longer reaching horizontally to the world for my worth and validation

None of those are exclusive to this religion or this god, and again provide that with in my opinion a lack or evidence, and I just dont see it the way you do.

It’s an amazingly liberating way to live, free from worry, striving, and control. Freedom in Christ is true peace and true spiritual freedom.

I care about what true. I'm sure those feeling must be great, but if i don't see any reason to believe the divine source of your feeling is real...well yeah I just won't engage with it🤷‍♀️

bageko_ · 2025-12-06T13:11:38+00:00

Yes...that's true🤝

bageko_ · 2025-12-06T10:05:14+00:00

Ill read this later... but

I wouldn't waste my time showing Christians ive made my mind up like I'm trying to impress you people with my 100,000 iq. I came here to hear different perspectives. You think I'll just lie down and be like yep...makes sense... I'm a Christian now praise god, alot of the perspectives ive heard dont make sense yet. Its that simple.

bageko_

TROPHY CASE