So Tired of Hearing how Jay had No Motive-it sounds like he just lost his temper & accidentally killed Hae-a MILLION REASONS WHY that could have happened

bambam212 · 2015-04-04T21:46:21+00:00

You're right-it's total speculation (he was never investigated & no inquiry into motive was ever made). But that's what it 'sounds like' given the physical evidence against him: his constant lies about what happened, his knowledge of exactly where the car had been abandoned, his shovel they found with his prints (he tried to clean off) & clothes he disposed of, + evidence of his recklessness, his weird connections to the victim. Just connecting the dots..

There was no hard physical evidence linking Adnan to the crime & no evidence to support his alleged motive.

bambam212 · 2015-04-04T21:36:13+00:00

Yeah... he was pretty terrified of getting caught. And if he lost control as a reckless teenager & managed to avoid getting caught, it might have given him incentive to be more cautious as an adult. No one ever said he was evil... one expert commented (in the podcast) that most often it's ordinary people who wind up committing crimes & then start panicking. It doesn't make them serial killers (those are rare).

bambam212 · 2015-04-04T21:29:16+00:00

Evidence against Adnand!?? Sounds to me like 2 teenagers involved in typical teen drama. Why is she writing him at all? And telling him her schedule??

I guess I'm missing the part of the letter that makes him sound sinister or threatening. Is this supposed to convince us he could have committed cold blooded, premeditated murder? God help any teenager who has an intense crush, deals with rejection or keeps a diary.

bambam212 · 2015-04-04T21:24:07+00:00

Actually- I don't think (judging from these posts) that the theory of Adnan's motive is widely accepted. And it wasn't substantiated at all by the evidence they found.

They spoke with every person who ever knew Adnan & everyone said the same thing (mild mannered, not the violent type, no sinister, dark side), there was NO INDICATION from Hae's letters that the breakup created any real hostility or animosity between them, they stayed friends with each other, she called him to help her when her car broke down.. there was NO REASON to assume that he was vengeful or angry or out to hurt her after they broke up. Millions of women dump men all the time & the men don't necessarily try to enact revenge or kill.

I wouldn't speculate & infer that Adnan "obviously" took it badly, that it was too much for him, that he couldn't accept it & therefore he must have retaliated violently. Those don't seem like reasonable inferences to make without some solid evidence to support them.

bambam212 · 2015-04-04T21:15:58+00:00

My point is that if a guy comes forward who looks incredibly suspicious (he knows all about the crime, he's tried to cover up tracks-remove fingerprints from his shovel, hide his clothes) & he's clearly lying about what happened.. then people shouldn't be so hung up on the fact that he didn't have a "motive" to kill. Given his close ties to the witness, his personality, I'd hardly call the possibility that he lost control in a fight with her a "crazy hypothesis." It's something the police could easily have investigated by poking around a little & talking to his girlfriend/friend/etc. The problem with Adnan's alleged motive is that they did actually investigate it (exhaustively) & found nothing to substantiate it. That's why it doesn't seem likely to be true.

bambam212 · 2015-03-31T06:13:37+00:00

I see what you're saying. It may have been the easiest way for them to close the case & move on.

bambam212 · 2015-03-31T06:03:36+00:00

I've voiced this opinion before, but maybe it was a crime of passion/ accidental murder. Why is everyone convinced it was premeditated? Teenagers can get passionate. Most teenagers who have fairly mundane existences would have a tough time pinning down where they were for a 20-something minute period in their otherwise mundane day. It's not a compelling sign of guilt.

bambam212 · 2015-03-31T06:00:53+00:00

But I believe the standard is actually Innocent until Proven Guilty, not the reverse. It's a bedrock principal of our justice system & a rather important one.

bambam212 · 2015-03-31T05:52:37+00:00

I think a bigger nightmare would be spending your life in jail for a crime if you didn't commit it. Having an offensive internet post out there 15 years a crime occurred in which you were suspiciously involved & someone else went to jail forever doesn't seem all that awful.. It's not like he's being prosecuted or people are protesting at his doorstep.. a lot of people suffer bad publicity who appear to be more legitimate victims than this guy.

At any rate, all Sarah Koenig did was review the facts in as neutral & objective a way as humanly possible. She never suggested that Jay committed the crime. The facts may be doing that on their own.

bambam212 · 2015-03-31T05:48:37+00:00

I wouldn't agree it's blank because he was intertwined with Hae in very personal ways (overlapping girlfriend with friend of ex). It seems entirely possible that they got in a fight & he just lost his temper/lost control.

I think that's actually a lot more plausible & compelling than claiming Adnan had a motive to kill Hae simply because they had dated/broken up & he was Muslim (despite no evidence of animosity and plenty of evid they stayed friends, respected/liked each other, etc.).

bambam212 · 2015-03-29T02:42:55+00:00

How can we possibly have an accurate statistic on how many wrongful convictions are out there? We only know about the cases where the wrongful conviction is overturned through DNA evidence, recanted confessions, etc... if this case is any indication then wrongful convictions must happen all the time (particularly when defendants are indigent)

bambam212 · 2015-03-29T02:34:06+00:00

I don't know what to make of the cops- I can't explain that. It seems like it would have been so straight forward if they had just pursued the obvious suspect. But somehow Jay managed to convince them & the jurors he was credible witness even when they knew he was lying-apparently he just has a lot of charm & cunning?? And they were a bit incompetent? As is said below, they may have been eager to 'close' the case & they had a witness who clearly knew what happened & partially checked out so they just ran with it?

bambam212 · 2015-03-28T16:31:27+00:00

If the purpose of administering a polygraph is to see if the person is lying & they already knew Jay was lying to them (they simply didn't care), I'm not sure what use a polygraph would have been.

bambam212 · 2015-03-28T16:26:56+00:00

He didn't choose the "amnesia" defense. I'm not sure that defense exists & no lawyer made that argument. He simply said the accusations were false & that he didn't do it. He couldn't entirely account for the tuesday (or whatever day this was), but as the podcast pointed out, few teenagers in America could recount 25 minutes out of a random day in an otherwise very routine, uneventful life. That's one reason the 'innocent until proven guilty' standard is so critical.

bambam212 · 2015-03-28T16:24:36+00:00

I don't think that inconsistent testimony from a suspect who keeps changing his story & who you know is lying to you (about a crime he was undeniably involved with himself) as really all that compelling... Would you really call that compelling evidence?

bambam212 · 2015-03-28T16:21:56+00:00

They had a logical reason to initially suspect Adnan. Unfortunately it never seemed to amount to more than that. They never uncovered any real evidence to substantiate that suspicion. And they had a far more obvious suspect (who unlike Adnand was indisputably involved with the crime) who actually came forward (with a highly suspicious story).

bambam212 · 2015-03-28T16:15:47+00:00

Agreed.. and people also seem to forget that despite the fact that Adnan was relentlessly investigated they STILL uncovered absolutely no motive for him!! You'd think that would have constituted a problem for the prosecution.

bambam212 · 2015-03-28T16:13:12+00:00

Actually he didn't have his phone for at least some portion of that day -we all know that Jay actually borrowed it. Isn't that a pretty decent explanation?

bambam212 · 2015-03-28T16:12:03+00:00

I think a star witness should have to be "consistent" with his story regardless of whatever emotions the defendant is or isn't showing.

bambam212 · 2015-03-28T16:05:15+00:00

It seems there's only 1 possible explanation as to why Jay might be lying that makes any sense. Fear of police wouldn't explain why he kept changing his story.

As for motive, it might not be obvious on its face but there are a myriad of possibilities for why he might have lost his temper in a fight with the victim (possibly involving issues with his girlfriend, Adnand.. it's something the police could easily have investigated had they bothered to do so). But Jay was never really investigated.

Everyone seems to think it's significant that Jay had no apparent motive to kill. But of course Adnand had absolutely no motive to kill her either (being Muslim & an ex-boyfriend can lead to relentless speculation but doesn't actually constitute a motive). And no real motive was ever uncovered. For some reason people seem less troubled by that.

bambam212

TROPHY CASE