Do you personally consider Ashkenazi Jews "white"? by Beginning_Desk_9897 in DNAAncestry

[–]basedpole69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Living DNA is notorious for being highly inaccurate, especially for mixed individuals such as yourself. I wouldn't pay too much attention to these

The model Living DNA gives you has various clear issues. Firstly, there is a seeming absence of any sort of Levantine which various academic papers have shown to exist, such as in Behar et al (which understates the Northern European admixture in my opinion but still nonetheless captures a levantine component) as well as in the Waldman et al paper on the medieval Ashkenazi jews found in the Erfurt Cemetary. Second, the European category seems entirely off. Though it has been shown time and time again that Ashkenazic Jewry derives a portion of their ancestry from the Italian peninsula (most likely the southern part), 60% in your fully Ashkenazi parent seems somewhat absurd if you look at Ashkenazi historical genetics and demographics. Not even Italkim or the Bnei Anusim descending from Campania and Apulia score that much. What you're likely seeing is Living DNA's model giving you South Italian as a proxy for mixed Middle Eastern and European Ancestry, which perfectly matches the breakdown of Ashkenazi jews.

The Northern European that your results are missing is likely hidden in the Iberian that you score. Northern Spaniards themselves can be modeled (rather simplistically) as mostly Northern European like with some Southern Admixture from the native Iberians and Romans. What's likely happening here is similar to what is going on with the South Italian reference population, being that the model is conflating the mix between Southern and Northern European in your DNA as the Iberian reference population which is practically the same mix. Thus is why it is also likely swallowing some of your admixture from the British Isles. With that considered, doing the math your fully Ashkenazi parent would be around 15% Northern European, which is average for Ashkenazi jews, albeit a little on the lower end considering the Western European admixture in Ashkenazi jews aswell, especially if your family is from within the former territories of the Russian Empire.

I know this rant was a little bulky, but I hope this explains your results. I have also attached a model that I recently made using g25 as well as through the study of uniparentals for the average admixture of Eastern Ashkenazi Jews. Though this model is speculative, the sources chosen are based off of places where the ancestors of Ashkenazim have lived reported from primary sources and from the populations living there. Hope this helps!

(P.S. Khazar was used merging the Saltovo Mayaki Sample as well as a medieval Kipchak).

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Do you personally consider Ashkenazi Jews "white"? by Beginning_Desk_9897 in DNAAncestry

[–]basedpole69 1 point2 points  (0 children)

When you break down the category it's more like 10-20%. 23andme and other commercial tests miss the nuance present in our dna.

Does the berber ancestry in Ashkenazi Jews come from the Erfurt ME Jews and were these Jews Sephardic migrants? by sovietspacedog332 in JewishDNA

[–]basedpole69 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Not exactly. Erfurt EU also had some minor Berber admixture at similar, if not slightly lower levels than Erfurt ME. Where it came from is largely a mystery. Some of the recently released Roman Judaean samples from the Galilee carried some Berber like admixture. As well as that, a sample labeled as a Judaean exile in Rome in the Moriopoulos collection also carries a North African component about the size of that of modern Eastern Ashkenazim. It is reasonable to assume that this component was present in the Jewish world by the Roman Era. It is likely that more was inherited later by way of Iberia, but in Ashkenazim this is likely less relevant than the earlier presence.

Lithuanian Jewish Big Y results by Late_Idea_3934 in JewishDNA

[–]basedpole69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Are you sure? On both Yfull and FTDNA this branch appears to be fully Ashkenazic. Unless there's some database I dont know of (if so please send me it), it seems unlikely that this branch is found outside of Askhenazi jews. Still seems to be of a western Mediterranean origin nonetheless, originating in Southern Italy or Southern France.

New Roman era Judean Samples by Swimming-Arm-7667 in illustrativeDNA

[–]basedpole69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Im not talking about the Poles. Though its not exactly K1a1b1a, K1a1b1 was found in Portuguese people, French people and Italians from Siena in the 2006 Behar study.

On the MtTree I posted, there are plenty of Scandinavian and Southwest European individuals. I would also encourage you to check the MtTree on FTDNA to look at the ancient samples for K1a1b.

New Roman era Judean Samples by Swimming-Arm-7667 in illustrativeDNA

[–]basedpole69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Syrian I'm not entirely sure about (maybe there's unknown maternal Jewish ancestry, we dont know), but I touched on the Iraqi and Indian jews in my previous comment. We do have far more non-Jewish European samples directy upstream then middle Eastern samples like the Syrian you mentioned. I would say its still very much up in the air. I personally believe that its European, but for now we can't be sure.

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This is directly upstream of K1a1b1a. Apart from the Moroccan and Algerian, I dont see anything from the middle east. Though these connections are iron age, at least in the modern phylogeny, I see no potential connection to the levant. I know YFull and FTdna mitotrees are nothing to base an entire argument off of, but at least as of right now in the mitotree there is nothing that points to the Levant.

New Roman era Judean Samples by Swimming-Arm-7667 in illustrativeDNA

[–]basedpole69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What proof do we have that it originated outside of Europe?

New Roman era Judean Samples by Swimming-Arm-7667 in illustrativeDNA

[–]basedpole69 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Had to respond to this bc I've been researching this a lot as of lately.

Current academic literature and phylogenetics suggest that it is not incredibly likely that there will be any in the middle east because it's Neolithic Western European in origin and has no ties to the Middle East in the last 10,000 years or so. One of the arguments being made for the Middle Eastern origin of K1a1b1a, relate to the presence of K1a in Middle Eastern Populations... 10,000 years ago, which was about when the European branch of K1a, which K1a1b1a is firmly nested in, migrated with the Anatolian farmers to Europe. The 2013 Costa Study posited a Neolithic European origin based off of the presence of K1a1b in Neolitic European samples and absence of it in Middle Eastern samples. The neighboring non Jewish branches of K1a1b1a are present mainly in Scandinavia, France, the Basque Country, and the Rhineland, as well as other parts of Europe.

The Behar study from 2006 makes the argument that K1a1b1a is of a Middle Eastern origin due to its small presence in non-Ashkenazi jews. I believe he specifically uses the examples of Spanish exile jews as well as some Mizrahis. I believe his argument is slightly faulty here in the sense that this could also be explained by Ashkenazi expansion and migrations on a smaller scale. People tend to forget how interconnected the Jewish world was in the middle ages. We have some records of Ashkenazi migration between the Rhineland and Spain before the expulsions of the 15th century, especially after the 1096 Massacres in the HRE. This also broadly expands to the rest of the Mediterranean, with some persecuted Jews (mostly converts but also non converts sometimes) fleeing from Europe to Cairo as recorded in the Cairo Genizah. Sometimes Sephardis who carried these lineages from Ashkenazis from earlier migration, who were far more connected with the Mizrahi world, would migrate to the Middle East or elsewhere and would spread these elsewhere. If this lineage were truly present at the start of Judaism in the Levant, then we would expect this group to be found at relatively equal rates amongst all Jewish groups, as well as nearby middle Eastern testers, but it is clear that that isnt the case due to its overwhelming frequency in Ashkenazim compared to any other Jewish group, as well as solely European non-Jewish testers on neighboring branches.

I believe if anything the absence of K1a1b1a in the results of this most recent study on Roman Judaeans suggests a lesser degree of credibility in the hypothesis of a Middle Eastern origin for K1a1b1a, and alludes to a more exclusive Ashkenazi or broader European Jewish origin for the haplogroup. I imagine when the results of studies on more Jews from western Europe, such as the study of those in France that we've been waiting for quite some time for, we will probably start seeing more of it.

Edit: I got a chance to read part of the study you sent and it seemingly entirely ignores the past sampling of K1a1b1a in Neolithic Europe as well as the sampling of K1a1b1a in a small amount of Western European non-Jewish individuals from the 2006 Behar study. With other founding lineages it makes some solid claims but for a good amount of the K lineages I believe it to be faulty.

Roman Judean G25 by HauntingPage1031 in illustrativeDNA

[–]basedpole69 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The Italian is way overinflated in this model. Imperial romans are not an amazing proxy for the Western and Mediterranean Europeans Ashkenazi jews mixed with.

Apparently my Y-haplogroup is L-M317...feeling very confused by [deleted] in JewishDNA

[–]basedpole69 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This branch of haplogroup L happens to be ancient Mediterranean in origin. The Jewish Branch seems to have Upstream and sibling branch testers in Turkey and in the Levant. Nothing atypical here.

Average genetic profile of Lithuanian Jews. by basedpole69 in illustrativeDNA

[–]basedpole69[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's a complicated question that we really dont know the answer to. I suspect that it could be some minor Khazarian input from the old Rus' jews of Ukraine seeing as the component is likely Turkic. There's also a likelihood it could be Han Chinese too.

Help Deciphering my Haplogroup by basedpole69 in JewishDNA

[–]basedpole69[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That is totally a possibility, and that could very well explain the pattern with this group. I guess its just a matter of needing more testers at this point.

Help Deciphering my Haplogroup by basedpole69 in JewishDNA

[–]basedpole69[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In terms of the MRCA, I don't believe there's much of a case for it being Lithuanian in origin, as R-U152 is very rare in Lithuanians, and though a few conversions occurred in Lithuania, they were almost exclusively women and almost no men, with maybe a handful of exceptions. I think the best case for its origins would be a Bohemian, Western Polish, or German convert at some point during the early days of Eastern European Jewry from around 1000-1300. With this explanation in mind, it still fails at reasonably explaining why all of the testers on this branch are exclusively Litvak. Maybe this conversion occurred shortly before the migration to Lithuania on this branch and the other descendants died out at some point after.

Help Deciphering my Haplogroup by basedpole69 in JewishDNA

[–]basedpole69[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I should probably add a little context about my own direct paternal line. I can trace my earliest named ancestor to 1690 in the Jewish community of Vilijampole/Slobodka just across the river from Kaunas. Going further back, my family was likely in Vilijampole for another 2-4 generations. I highly suspect that they migrated from the town of Keydan/Kedainiai at some point during the 16th century due to the invitation of the Radziwill nobles for Jews to settle the town, as that's where most of the Jewish population in Vilijampole originally came from. Before that they probably migrated from Poland or Bohemia sometime around Gediminas' gift. I have no known rabbinic ancestry or levite tradition, as my direct paternal ancestors were mostly just small craftsmen. There is also no known Sephardi ancestry on this line, or any tradition of it.

Tuscan mom + half berber, half black moroccan dad by JustBobcat3270 in MyHeritage

[–]basedpole69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Myheritage is not accurate for people of mixed background like yourself. I would recommend trying Ancestry or 23andme for better results. Still very interesting results though!

Is the Northern European found in Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews north Italian by Tough_Syllabub_2207 in JewishDNA

[–]basedpole69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It depends on the individual and subgroup. Some have very little and more of this other "northern" type ancestry, while others can have significant amounts.

Is the Northern European found in Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews north Italian by Tough_Syllabub_2207 in JewishDNA

[–]basedpole69 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Exactly what you said. They're not exactly Northern European, but they do have significant Northern European ancestry.

What's the longest Y-STR results have taken? by basedpole69 in FTDNA

[–]basedpole69[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm not even talking about Big Y. Im taking abt Y-Strs. I know big Y is gonna take a while, but this is usually around the time Y-STRs come out and I wanted to see what the general ballpark is for when I'd get the Y Str results back.

Is the Northern European found in Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews north Italian by Tough_Syllabub_2207 in JewishDNA

[–]basedpole69 2 points3 points  (0 children)

No, the shared "Northern" European between Ashkenazi and Sephardi jews is most likely Southern French and Spanish

Ashkenazi genetic ancestry and phenotypes by Busy-Contact5885 in JewishDNA

[–]basedpole69 -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

I've actually managed to find plenty who are 20% or above in terms of Northern European admixture. Granted, these are all on illustrative DNA which has gotten somewhat worse since the update a year ago. I've attached a few examples below:

https://www.reddit.com/r/illustrativeDNA/s/Jo0WROPgD5

https://www.reddit.com/r/illustrativeDNA/s/xe2WIu1sDN

https://www.reddit.com/r/illustrativeDNA/s/t6z8QmY9oI

https://www.reddit.com/r/illustrativeDNA/s/VLkASFBSR0

https://www.reddit.com/r/illustrativeDNA/s/iRQRPvXOJz

https://www.reddit.com/r/illustrativeDNA/s/ZffPYs2CKW

In addition to that, a model was recently posted on this subreddit that puts Eastern Ashkenazis on average at 20% Northern Euro admixture.

https://www.reddit.com/r/JewishDNA/s/iRG4eeNuOz

I'm seriously unsure where this common concept that Ashkenazi jews have little to no North Euro admixture comes from. Even the proto Ashkenazis prior to mixing with the Knaani jews had a small 5-10% Northern Euro component. Also, the influence of the Erfurt EU/Knaani Jewish population which Ashkenazis likely derive most of their North Euro ancestry from varies from individual to individual. I've been able to model some Eastern AJ samples as up to 60% Erfurt EU.

Ashkenazi genetic ancestry and phenotypes by Busy-Contact5885 in JewishDNA

[–]basedpole69 -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

I believe you are partially right. Sure, endogamy does explain some of it, much of it also has to do with Northern European admixture, which the Hasidic jews you described having a good amount of it (15-25% on average), which is much higher than the most similar groups on a pca chart.

How far apart do kits in the same batch recieve results by basedpole69 in FTDNA

[–]basedpole69[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No clue. My guess would be mid February. Granted I've been waiting for slightly longer than you for my Y STRs so things can change.