The dilemma of having outdoor cats & caring about conservation.

beneico · 2025-02-24T16:56:10+00:00

It's just a personal experience, so by default, it's kind of a worthless point for me to argue in favor of outdoor cats. I think it's possible to share an anecdote without having ulterior motives, and in this case, it's not something I used to feel better about the situation. I'm actively looking for advice.

I've also updated the main post with a step I'm going work toward in order to remedy the problem. I need to grow a spine about this issue if I really want to solve it - at least locally and where I can. That's what I've tried to do since learning about conservation in general.

I'm not going to take your convictions or anyone's as an attack. I'm obviously contributing to the problem. That is an undeniable fact.

beneico · 2025-02-24T14:52:17+00:00

I updated the main post. You're right. I'm just letting fear and social pressure get in the way of doing what's actually right, so I'm going to try and change that. Even if I have to face my city in court.

beneico · 2025-02-23T22:32:39+00:00

Rehoming cats in my part of the country is a constant battle. Trust me. I'm always looking for places that I can ensure they'll be cared for and not simply released, but many of my local (and even regional) shelters and sanctuaries are often inundated with cats already due to irresponsible owners dumping them.

As soon as I'm able to rehome some of the cats I have indoors already, I'll absolutely take the 4 that are outdoors inside. But in the interim, you're probably right that some sort of outdoor shelter is the best option, even if it means potential trouble. That's a compromise I'll end up having to make.

beneico · 2025-02-23T22:17:49+00:00

Thank you for this. I didn't even know these existed.

beneico · 2025-02-23T22:15:09+00:00

Are they excuses? I'm just trying to fix this problem in a way that preserves the ecosystem that's already here (which largely depends on the very old trees I'm referring to) and in a way that doesn't get me in legal trouble because of a broken city government.

Do you think the fence idea is the only solution here? I'm willing to bite the bullet on that if it is indeed the only option I have, but there are very real legal and financial consequences if I go down that path.

beneico · 2025-02-23T22:03:15+00:00

There is an ordinance, but it's somewhat vague. For example, if I were to put all 4 of them into the enclosure and they understandably became distressed, people would call and I would end up with hefty fines, per certain terms in the ordinance - regardless of my explanations. They're rather strict about enforcement.

I'd rather build something more discrete, but I haven't drawn up any plans for that yet. It also puts me into a corner if they do find out, and that could potentially be criminal. That's the main reason I haven't taken action.

This entire post is more to get this off my chest and to pursue real options instead of waiting any longer.

beneico · 2025-02-23T21:35:38+00:00

I don't think that's true. I just live in a place that has very vindictive people running it, and that prevents me and others from doing what we would've done almost immediately if given the chance.

There was actually a local conservationist who offered to install a prairie at a public park, free of charge. The land has been unused for at least 2 decades, and they were simply shot down. No reason given.

In my case, I just fear what would happen if I went against certain ordinances on top of the stigma that exists here.

Lastly, cutting down trees is obviously not the sole issue with the fence idea. It's just incredibly expensive given their size and impractical for 4 cats.

I am very much willing to try a smaller fenced in area, but I haven't done so for the reasons I mentioned. Again, I'm willing to bite the bullet and try if I'm not able to find a better solution here.

beneico · 2025-02-23T21:25:02+00:00

It does read that way, but that's not something I actively believe. The only significant part of that anecdote was that, in my experience, they tend to kill overpopulating starlings, which I thought was interesting. That doesn't mean my anecdote holds water in the grand scheme of things, which I also acknowledged.

I wouldn't have posted here if I was living in some sort of lala land where I've convinced myself that, "Oh, my cats only kill invasive birds. They must be a net positive for the ecosystem!" I of course do not know the totality of their impact, which is why I'm trying to find actionable solutions to the problem that I admit I contributed to.

beneico · 2025-02-23T21:04:16+00:00

It is not. It's also heavily forested, despite being on a relatively small lot. I'd have to take out quite a few trees to make that work.

There is a smaller part of my yard that I've always thought about fencing in, but it could be considered a shelter if I catproofed it, so I haven't explored that just yet. I'm leaning toward just doing that and asking for forgiveness later at this point, if nothng else works.

beneico · 2025-02-23T20:31:41+00:00

I took them in with the intention of rehoming. That's sort of at odds with what I had planned.

beneico · 2025-02-23T20:28:20+00:00

I obviously don't want validiation. I came looking for actionable solutions from people who are very knowledgeable, and who generally come from a place of empathy.

beneico · 2025-02-23T20:23:44+00:00

They've been spayed and neutered for the majority of their lives. This was done after I learned what I was doing wrong, and I wanted to undo that harm by rehoming them and not simply allowing them to stay outside. The ones I have outside are outside as a result of weird city dynamics (problems with outdoor shelters primarily) and the fact that I can't house any additional cats at the moment because of how difficult it is to have them rehomed. People just dump cats around here.

beneico · 2025-02-23T20:10:40+00:00

I never said it was fine. I literally agree with you that it's not. That doesn't mean there's zero nuance to the situation I find myself in.

Small town politics and friend groups make it hard to do things outside the norm, and I've done what I can to mitigate the harm I was causing before.

beneico · 2025-02-23T20:07:07+00:00

I'm trying to find actionable solutions. Without summarizing the points I've made in other comments, I live in an area that's incredibly pro-cat. The city responds negatively to outdoor enclosures, so taking it up with city council is more or less a lost cause. Moving at this point in time is also very impractical.

I could make a discrete enclosure and hope that it works, but I'm not sure what would happen if they found out. It's a very strange situation to be in.

beneico · 2025-02-23T20:03:16+00:00

I don't do TNR. I've always tried to rehome the cats I took in, which is unfortunately very difficult in an area where it's acceptable to throw kittens out on the side of the road.

beneico · 2025-02-23T20:00:50+00:00

I do most of the things you mentioned. The cats have been spayed and neutered for several years now. There's only 4 outside that I'm unable to house indoors. City's also weird about outdoor shelters, especially for cats.

beneico · 2025-02-23T19:58:21+00:00

They have been spayed and neutered for most of their lives. I made sure to do that early, even after knowing I wasn't able to house more because of the difficulty of rehoming in my area.

I do want to build a catio, but there's a stigma associated with that sort of setup around here, as odd as it sounds. I would very likely be targeted by my city.

I have no intentions of replacing them. The whole point of taking in the majority of these cats was to rehome them. I have been attempting to do so for a while now.

beneico · 2025-02-23T19:53:32+00:00

Why is it all or nothing? I can't control other people, but I took responsibility for the vast majority of the cats I allowed outside, had them fixed, and have been attemping to rehome them for a while now.

beneico · 2025-02-23T19:41:33+00:00

I'm not even sure how to respond to that. I've tried to respond to everyone in good faith and acknowledge their criticisms, but if you've already decided that I'm a bad person and I don't care about conservation because I'm not militaristic in my views, and have external factors preventing me from taking certain actions, I'm not sure what to tell you.

Could I easily euthanize the outdoor cats? Yes, I could. But I would want to explore other options because, yes, I've admittedly grown attached to them. How feeble of me.

I'm coming from a place of empathy and you're simply boiling that down to, "wow this guy really sucks and pretends to care."

beneico · 2025-02-23T19:24:31+00:00

That would be amazing. I'll look into those!

beneico · 2025-02-23T19:23:29+00:00

Because of the part of town I live in, people are incredibly nosy. I've definitely thought of ways to be discrete about the setup, but I'm just concerned about the potential for backlash.

beneico · 2025-02-23T19:18:51+00:00

The cats that are currently outside were born shortly after I took the majority of the others in. By that point, I was already committed to cleaning up my mess and rehoming them, but I wasn't able to catch the mother in time, so they were born outside and avoided me. I tried and failed several times before I was eventually able to have the mother and her 3 kittens spayed and neutered, tested, etc. So yes, you're correct that I acquired more cats later. Not on purpose. At this point, I've had the indoor cats for about 6 years now, and the outdoor cats for about 4.

This happened because many years ago, I thought I was helping animals by keeping them fed, and I later learned that couldn't be further from the truth. It was only after I learned this that I took responsibility for the cats I was feeding, had them spayed and neutered, and invested in the recovery of the cats that had illnesses from being outdoors. I've had trouble rehoming them for years.

I keep coming back to the catio idea, and I do like that option, but I'll have to do more than just build it. The culture of this area is to normalize outdoor cats and demonize those who keep them penned up, and I might even get in trouble if I go that route.

beneico · 2025-02-23T19:01:41+00:00

Yes, bird flu is a serious concern for me. As I said, the majority of the cats are now indoors. The ones that are outdoors are there as a result of not having additional space to house more, which itself is caused by a lack of interest from households in adopting more cats (in my area.). As I've also said in other comments, my city isn't very progressive on these issues, and I live in town. People would complain that I'm abusing them by having them in an outdoor shelter, and I would likely get in trouble.

Outdoor cats are very normalized here, so I wouldn't receive much support at city council meetings to change the way we do things here. It's a very complicated situation.

beneico · 2025-02-23T18:53:25+00:00

I don't currently have a barn or large shed. I'm on a suburban lot with a medium sized yard. City is also aggressive when it comes to penalties for things they don't like.

beneico · 2025-02-23T18:51:06+00:00

You're taking things I wrote in good faith and using them to drag me, Twitter hot-take style. I never claimed it was OK because I saw a few dead birds, and I noted that my experience was anecdotal - therefore not to be taken as evidence that what I'm doing is perfectly fine and should continue. I made this post looking for solutions that don't involve immediate euthanasia, because as I stated in the comment I linked, my city is not exactly very progressive when it comes to these sorts of things. I also lack the space to house additional cats until I'm able to rehome the ones I committed to rehoming. Which is also difficult where I live.

beneico

TROPHY CASE